Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?

[Lord Damian]

I think it likely that Sweet Robin is Littlefinger's kid but at this point, so what?

[Lady Woodland]

Ah, yes my sister had this problem, she had to take Anti-d through all her subsequent pregnancies to prevent spontaneous abortion. Also a women I used to work with lost her first child due to it.

Rhesus negative.

but we do know that Lysa took Tansy tea to abort LF's baby and that this can cause subsequent difficulties carrying a child to term. Perhaps both issues though, weren't a lot of Lysa's babies born early though as opposed to M/C'd? or am I getting show confused?

Might be I have to admit I'm not that interested in her Arc but I believe Stannis's wife Queen Selyse has also had a couple of miscarriages/still borns but again I could just be mixing up the show's story too.

My feeling is if Lysa had been able to have a healthy child she might not have gone so crazy. It does explain why she is so protective of SR, perhaps JA also suspected he was not of his blood & that was why he wanted to foster him with Stannis, if he truly cared about this child surely Ned would have been his first choice? Or was it a political ploy that we are unaware of by JA. Lysa definitely wasn't having that happen, he obviously underestimated her.

[Lee-Sensei]

Might be I have to admit I'm not that interested in her Arc but I believe Stannis's wife Queen Selyse has also had a couple of miscarriages/still borns but again I could just be mixing up the show's story too.

My feeling is if Lysa had been able to have a healthy child she might not have gone so crazy. It does explain why she is so protective of SR, perhaps JA also suspected he was not of his blood & that was why he wanted to foster him with Stannis, if he truly cared about this child surely Ned would have been his first choice? Or was it a political ploy that we are unaware of by JA. Lysa definitely wasn't having that happen, he obviously underestimated her.

Stannis and Jon had worked together for 15 years running Robert's Kingdom. For Jon, Stannis was probably a good choice.

[Martin's Ghost]

I think that everyone, LF included, thinks that SR is Jon's child. Lysa's comments, though being somewhat rambling and colored by fancy, must mean that she thinks SR is Jon's - her saying that whe would want to give LF a son as well implies that SR is Jon's. There is still a chance, however, that SR is the child of LF for it is almost certain that Lysa and LF had an affair as soon as, if not before, LF was transferred to King's Landing by Jon. While Lysa was driven by love and desire LF, however, seems to be cool and calculating with his emotions and would never give Lysa more than it was safe to do or as necessary to advance his plots. To conclude, SR is Jon's so far as everyone knows - just as GRRM said.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Might be I have to admit I'm not that interested in her Arc but I believe Stannis's wife Queen Selyse has also had a couple of miscarriages/still borns but again I could just be mixing up the show's story too.

My feeling is if Lysa had been able to have a healthy child she might not have gone so crazy. It does explain why she is so protective of SR, perhaps JA also suspected he was not of his blood & that was why he wanted to foster him with Stannis, if he truly cared about this child surely Ned would have been his first choice? Or was it a political ploy that we are unaware of by JA. Lysa definitely wasn't having that happen, he obviously underestimated her.

Yes, Selyse in the show has lost several babies to prem birth. And keeps them in jars (FGS! D&D are ruining this story)

Lysa had several M/C's and I think a couple of still births, But as I said we are told of tansy tea that it can damage a woman's reproductive system and cause her to struggle to carry to term in the future.

Selyse only had Shireen, there is no mention of any M/C's in her wiki, only that Stanis shuns her bed and she blames Roberts desecration of their marriage bed for their lack of Sons.

Could be that Jon Arryn's first wife Jeyne royce was simply unfortunate in dying during her first birth, the daughter being Still Born sucks too. But when a woman dies in labour the baby often dies too. if baby dies inside mum,its much harder to pass the baby and so mother might become exhausted and complications ensue. or Mum dies due to a haemorrhage and if baby isn't got out fast enough simply dies too due to the placenta stopping functioning once mum is dead.

Rowena died of a winter chill, but had no children. Perhaps she was simply infertile. perhaps they were not wed long enough for a pregnancy before the chill. either way we know from jeyne dying in childbirth that Jon Arryn was not infertile.

Lysa has 1 abortion at Riverrun, 2 M/C's at the Eryie, 3 M/C's in KL, and two still births in KL. Then finally Robert is born but is sickly. I'd say it was teh Tansy tea which caused her to struggle to bring a pregnancy to term, two still births could simply be two prem births and the babies died during the labour. A birth is very tough on babies who are coming far too soon, which is why most women who go into early labour are given c sections. If Lysa went into labour at say 23 weeks and her baby dies during the birth they'd call that a still birth. her going into early labour is in line with the idea that Tansy Tea causes cervical weakness, hence 5 M/C's and 2 prem births. Robert Arryn was likely early too, hense his diminutive stature. He is afflicted with shaking sickness(possibly epilepsy). epilepsy can be caused by, Head injury, Birth can of course cause head injury's if say they used Forceps or something similar.

An infection such as Meningitis. Again quite possible a prem baby would get an infection. They are much more at risk of such. These are just a couple of the causes for epilepsy, and Robert Arryn could feasably have experienced these, thus causing his illness.

If robert is LF's not Jon Arryns then LF is even more of a monster than we thought, but I do think he is Jon Arryns. Simply because whilst everyone likes to say Lysa was mad, I don't think she actually was. She was screwed up emotionally & trying to throw Sansa out the Moon Door was fucked up. But she wasn't actually mad. Everything she did made sense, she wouldn't have risked having Petyr's child whilst in KL, under her husbands nose. that would be madness. Jon Arryn will have been expecting a child who looked like him to an extent and you have no way of knowing which traits your kid will inherit, She'd have to be mad truly to not know that getting pregnant by Petyr was a huge huge risk. All it takes is for the kid to be born looking like Baelish and she'd be getting measured up for a spike.

[Mikkel]

Yes, Selyse in the show has lost several babies to prem birth. And keeps them in jars (FGS! D&D are ruining this story)

Seriously? In jars?! I'm feeling better and better about my decision to stop watching after the 2nd season. Cartoon-level storytelling tbh. "Look she has babies in jars, she's cuckoo!". Bah. Okay, semi-elitist-nerd-rant over.

Anyway, this is an old topic, with no more chance of resolution than any of the others, but I don't think SR is LF's. I don't actually think he had a sexual relationship with Lysa in KL at all, the risk is too high - while Lysa might be willing to risk (or again, maybe not), LF sure wouldn't. His entire M.O. consists of keeping under the radar, and an illicit affair with the King's Hand is anything but that.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I think it is entirely possible, but I don't think there is any way to know for sure, because lets be real, its entirely possible Lysa didn't know for sure. I definitely agree they were having sex in Kings Landing, but I think any infertility problems were Lysa's rather than Jon Aryns, and thats why I say it is something we cannot know for sure. As you said she could have been aborting the children, or her first abortion could have caused the problems, either way Jon Aryn had past children.

[Bungholes First]

Seriously? In jars?! I'm feeling better and better about my decision to stop watching after the 2nd season. Cartoon-level storytelling tbh. "Look she has babies in jars, she's cuckoo!". Bah. Okay, semi-elitist-nerd-rant over.

Anyway, this is an old topic, with no more chance of resolution than any of the others, but I don't think SR is LF's. I don't actually think he had a sexual relationship with Lysa in KL at all, the risk is too high - while Lysa might be willing to risk (or again, maybe not), LF sure wouldn't. His entire M.O. consists of keeping under the radar, and an illicit affair with the King's Hand is anything but that.

LF takes plenty of risks, and fucking Lysa while she was married to the Hand of the King isn't even the riskiest thing he has done.

[Lee-Sensei]

LF takes plenty of risks, and fucking Lysa while she was married to the Hand of the King isn't even the riskiest thing he has done.

Jon Arryn isn't Robert. LF's not an idiot. He's not going to sleep with his boss' wife. Was he even in KL at the time of conception?

[Bungholes First]

Jon Arryn isn't Robert. LF's not an idiot. He's not going to sleep with his boss' wife? Was he even in KL at the time of conception?

Those are all good questions. I looked up LF's term, and can't find anything on how long he served in the Wiki or Citadel. But Robert Arryn is six years old by the end of ADWD. I was under the impression that LF had been Master of Coin for some time.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Seriously? In jars?! I'm feeling better and better about my decision to stop watching after the 2nd season. Cartoon-level storytelling tbh. "Look she has babies in jars, she's cuckoo!". Bah. Okay, semi-elitist-nerd-rant over.

Anyway, this is an old topic, with no more chance of resolution than any of the others, but I don't think SR is LF's. I don't actually think he had a sexual relationship with Lysa in KL at all, the risk is too high - while Lysa might be willing to risk (or again, maybe not), LF sure wouldn't. His entire M.O. consists of keeping under the radar, and an illicit affair with the King's Hand is anything but that.

Honestly they are ruining it. I am teetering on the edge of stopping watching it. The dialogue is shit, they are making up far far too much as they go along and changing minor things for absolutely no reason at all. I could understand merging a few periphery characters and dropping some less essential ones. I could even forgive them changing Asha's name (though why change a major characters name due to a similarity with a tiny characters, why not change Osha's name?) But the recent things are just going too far and the further off text they get the cheesier and lamer it all gets. You used to have huge chunks of dialogue directly lifted from the text and the quality of the writing shone through onto the screen via that,but now everyone talks like they are in a really shit low budget 80's fantasy film. :( and half the scenes are just made up.

[James Arryn]

I think I remember the timelines being cross-checked before and it being concluded that LF probably couldn't be the father.

Jon Arryn was supposed to be powerful and have massive shoulders, yeah...but nature vs. nurture here. I doubt Jon Arryn was raised on breast milk and rarely allowed to engage in any activity which might cause a bruise. If he had been he'd probably be fairly underdeveloped and weak, too.

[Lee-Sensei]

Those are all good questions. I looked up LF's term, and can't find anything on how long he served in the Wiki or Citadel. But Robert Arryn is six years old by the end of ADWD. I was under the impression that LF had been Master of Coin for some time.

Robert Arryn was born in 292 AL. That makes him 8 years old. LF would have had to slept with Lysa and got her pregnant 9 years before ADWD. And LF hates Lysa. I doubt he'd have voluntarily slept with Lysa while he was trying to climb to a position of power. Tyrion says that he was appointed to his first position at gulltown. That was in either 298 AL or 299 AL.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think I remember the timelines being cross-checked before and it being concluded that LF probably couldn't be the father.

Jon Arryn was supposed to be powerful and have massive shoulders, yeah...but nature vs. nurture here. I doubt Jon Arryn was raised on breast milk and rarely allowed to engage in any activity which might cause a bruise. If he had been he'd probably be fairly underdeveloped and weak, too.

Erm, you do realise that Robert did also eat regular food alongside nursing, right? I mean you're not really thinking that kids who continue to Bf don't eat anything else?

Robert is weedy most probably because he was a premature baby, kids who are early often stay diminutive for many years, and on top of that he's being leached and is ill, again probably due to an infection as a baby which he got due to his prematurity.

In all honestly the breastfeeding was the only good thing going on for the poor kid. At least he's getting a immune system boost from Lysa.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I don't think Littlefinger is that clumsy.

I don't know. There's nothing in particular about Littlefinger or Jon Arryn's line that would be a dead ringer for the child not being Jon's. He's small, sure, but with the number of stillbirths Lysa went through, you'd think he'd be small. Plus LF needs Jon Arryn to have an heir when he marries Lysa, so why not knock her up from LF's POV so long as Lysa tells no one that he is not Jon's true son?

[Lord_Tyrell]

Jon Arryn isn't Robert. LF's not an idiot. He's not going to sleep with his boss' wife. Was he even in KL at the time of conception?

I feel very confident that LF at least screwed Lysa when he persuaded her to poison her husband. Plus Lysa said that they were quiet all those times before, but this time she was going to scream. I think that implies they've had a sexual relationship for a while.

[Lee-Sensei]

I don't know. There's nothing in particular about Littlefinger or Jon Arryn's line that would be a dead ringer for the child not being Jon's. He's small, sure, but with the number of stillbirths Lysa went through, you'd think he'd be small. Plus LF needs Jon Arryn to have an heir when he marries Lysa, so why not knock her up from LF's POV so long as Lysa tells no one that he is not Jon's true son?

That would require them sleeping together and Jon Arryn's not a drunk.

I feel very confident that LF at least screwed Lysa when he persuaded her to poison her husband. Plus Lysa said that they were quiet all those times before, but this time she was going to scream. I think that implies they've had a sexual relationship for a while.

Do you have a quote? She cold be referring to the two time they slept together at Riverrun. I just don't think LF's that stupid.

[Mindel15]

Right before lf pushes her off with his "only cat" comment she tells him I would have given you a son if they hadn't made me drink the tansy tea... Etc... So if she thought robin was lf's I feel like she would have said it then

[Lee-Sensei]

Right before lf pushes her off with his "only cat" comment she tells him I would have given you a son if they hadn't made me drink the tansy tea... Etc... So if she thought robin was lf's I feel like she would have said it then

That's a good point.

[Mikkel]

LF takes plenty of risks, and fucking Lysa while she was married to the Hand of the King isn't even the riskiest thing he has done.

Well, true, he takes risk when he has to, or when the reward justifies it. Neither is the case with Lysa, though.

That's assuming he could string her along with promises, and for all that I loathe LF I have perfect confidence in his ability to play Lysa like a deranged banjo on legs.