Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?

[Lady Winter Rose]

This looks logical, but I think that Lysa would had said as much in the scene at the Moon Door. She lost it and spilled the beans. She talked about the baby she conceived with LF and was forced to miscarry by her father. At that state of mind, I believe, she would have mentioned Robert's parentage if LF was indeed the father. She would have bragged about it to Sansa. But, she didn't, which leads me to believe that Robert is indeed Jon's son.

Maybe she don't know, especially if she slept with LF and Jon Arryn at the same time.

[Modesty Lannister]

Maybe she don't know, especially if she slept with LF and Jon Arryn at the same time.

As I said in my earlier posts, I don't think she and LF slept together during their respective stays in KL. As I said in post 159, Lysa was spilling the beans uncontrollably in that scene at the Moon door. So, if she thought there may have been a chance that Robert was LF's child, she would have rambled about it. That would have been a thing to be proud about. She would not have missed the opportunity to brag to Sansa about it in her ultimate moment of madness. I also think that it was the lack of any sexual relationship with LF since Riverrun that drove her mad. Look how she describes sex with her husband Jon Arryn:

Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father’s swords, to aid his darling boys. I should have refused him, but he was such an old man, how long could he live? Half his teeth were gone, and his breath smelled like bad cheese. I cannot abide a man with foul breath. Petyr’s breath is always fresh... he was the first man I ever kissed, you know. My father said he was too lowborn, but I knew how high he’d rise. Jon gave him the customs for Gulltown to please me, but when he increased the incomes tenfold my lord husband saw how clever he was and gave him other appointments, even

brought him to King’s Landing to be master of coin. That was hard, to see him every day and still be wed to that old cold man. Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath. So you see, I have suffered too. Sansa, ASOS

[Wmarshal]

Nah, Lysa would said it in last crazy moment.

[Lady Winter Rose]

That was hard, to see him every day and still be wed to that old cold man. Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath.

This could mean she though Jon couldn't give her a child.

[Modesty Lannister]

This could mean she though Jon couldn't give her a child.

I'm not following. She explicitly said that all her babies died but Robert. She also explicitly said it was hard to see LF everyday and still be married to Jon. She didn't say it was hard concealing her affair with LF while still being married to Jon. It is a very clear statement. If you bother to reread this bit, you will see that Lysa refused to be bedded by LF before they married. Lysa may be unhinged, but she is not stupid.

[Alia Atreides]

How did Catelyn lead him on was addressed in previous posts. If you seem to recall something, please find a quote to corroborate it. As for Lysa's looks, see post 156. For my take on Lysa's mental state, see post 153. We are actually in agreement. As for my comment on LF bedding Lysa, you haven't read what Stormland's Fury and I wrote. We were not discussing the original night they spent together.

You are correct I missed that and only picked one of your quotes my apologies.

[Alia Atreides]

As I said in my earlier posts, I don't think she and LF slept together during their respective stays in KL. As I said in post 159, Lysa was spilling the beans uncontrollably in that scene at the Moon door. So, if she thought there may have been a chance that Robert was LF's child, she would have rambled about it. That would have been a thing to be proud about. She would not have missed the opportunity to brag to Sansa about it in her ultimate moment of madness. I also think that it was the lack of any sexual relationship with LF since Riverrun that drove her mad. Look how she describes sex with her husband Jon Arryn:

Quote

Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father’s swords, to aid his darling boys. I should have refused him, but he was such an old man, how long could he live? Half his teeth were gone, and his breath smelled like bad cheese. I cannot abide a man with foul breath. Petyr’s breath is always fresh... he was the first man I ever kissed, you know. My father said he was too lowborn, but I knew how high he’d rise. Jon gave him the customs for Gulltown to please me, but when he increased the incomes tenfold my lord husband saw how clever he was and gave him other appointments, even

brought him to King’s Landing to be master of coin. That was hard, to see him every day and still be wed to that old cold man. Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath. So you see, I have suffered too. Sansa, ASOS

There are usually reasons for people's madness the things that were done to Lysa are unconscionable, its is sad that projected her jealousy upon Sansa still.

[Lady Winter Rose]

I'm not following. She explicitly said that all her babies died but Robert. She also explicitly said it was hard to see LF everyday and still be married to Jon. She didn't say it was hard concealing her affair with LF while still being married to Jon. It is a very clear statement. If you bother to reread this bit, you will see that Lysa refused to be bedded by LF before they married. Lysa may be unhinged, but she is not stupid.

I read the section. You are the one not understanding the text you see in front of you.

Lysa never said she didn't slept with Jon. She said it was hard to be married to him and see LF. See doesn't means sleep. She probably mean she wanted more than sex, that seeing LF every day while married to Jon was hard because she wasn't married to LF.

She did explicitly said all her babies died but Robert, but she didn't say all her babies had the same father.

[Modesty Lannister]

Quote

There are usually reasons for people's madness the things that were done to Lysa are unconscionable, its is sad that projected her jealousy upon Sansa still.

I agree. Lysa is a tragic character who loved selflessly, was manipulated by her father who endangered her very life for the swords, used by her husband as the heir producing machine and used by the love of her life for his many schemes that turned her into a murderess. She lost her youth, she thought she gained her love back only to find Cat 2.0 was the one to have his true attention. Plus, her only son is sickly and weak-minded. Sad, sad ending of Lysa Tully.

[Modesty Lannister]

Lysa never said she didn't slept with Jon. She said it was hard to be married to him and see LF. See doesn't means sleep. She probably mean she wanted more than sex, that seeing LF every day while married to Jon was hard because she wasn't married to LF.

She did explicitly said all her babies died but Robert, but she didn't say all her babies had the same father.

Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath.

I never claimed she said she never slept with Jon. On the contrary. Where did you get that? It is explicitly said in the quote above that she slept with her husband Jon.

In English language to say "he went on and on with his stinking breath" in this context can only mean one thing and that is that he went on and on making babies. If that is not clear to you, then I cannot do anything to make it clearer. Neither can GRRM.

[Lady Winter Rose]

You and I misunderstand each other. I said Lysa never said she didn't slept with LF. I understand perfectly that Lysa slept with Jon, I'm just claiming she slept with both of them in the same time period.

When I said:

This could mean she though Jon couldn't give her a child.

I mean, she though Jon couldn't give her LIVING child or child that will survive more than few weeks

[Modesty Lannister]

You and I misunderstand each other. I said Lysa never said she didn't slept with LF. I understand perfectly that Lysa slept with Jon, I'm just claiming she slept with both of them in the same time period.

When I said:

I mean, she though Jon couldn't give her LIVING child or child that will survive more than few weeks

I know what you postulated, but it is not corroborated by the text. That's what I think. We are running around in circles. Jon has obviously given her a living child. As for your claim that she kept sleeping with LF while being married to Jon, I think this quote refutes what you said quite well:

“Sweet Petyr, I’ve missed you so, you don’t know, you can’t know. Yohn Royce has been stirring up all sorts of trouble, demanding that I call my banners and go to war. And the others all swarm around me, Hunter and Corbray and that dreadful Nestor Royce, all wanting to wed me and take my son to ward, but none of them truly love me. Only you, Petyr. I’ve dreamed of you so long.”

“And I of you, my lady.” He slid an arm around behind her and kissed her on the neck. “How soon can we be wed?”

“Now,” said Lady Lysa, sighing. “I’ve brought my own septon, and a singer, and mead for the wedding feast.”

“Here?” That did not please him. “I’d sooner wed you at the Eyrie, with your whole court in attendance.”

“Poo to my court. I have waited so long, I could not bear to wait another moment.” She put her arms around him. “I want to share your bed tonight, my sweet. I want us to make another child, a brother for Robert or a sweet little daughter.”

“I dream of that as well, sweetling. Yet there is much to be gained from a great public wedding, with all the Vale -”

“No.” She stamped a foot. “I want you now, this very night. And I must warn you, after all these years of silence and whisperings, I mean to scream when you love me. I am going to scream so loud they’ll hear me in the Eyrie!”

“Perhaps I could bed you now, and wed you later?”

The Lady Lysa giggled like a girl. “Oh, Petyr Baelish, you are so wicked. No, I say no, I am the Lady of the Eyrie, and I command you to wed me this very moment!”

[Lady Winter Rose]

It doesn't refute me at all. Other people on other topic and other forums (and this forum) thinks this section confirms Lysa and LF were having an affair...

And I must warn you, after all these years of silence and whisperings, I mean to scream when you love me.

Still, nothing that will pass on court, but I think I could be correct... they were cheating on Jon Arryn.

Also, she when she says:

I have waited so long, I could not bear to wait another moment

She meant on time between her escape to Eyrie and meeting LF. She means 2-3 years she have spent in Eyrie, hiding from Lannisters, were long and she couldn't bear it.

I want us to make another child, a brother for Robert or a sweet little daughter.

This could be... another full brother or sister for Robert.

[Modesty Lannister]

It doesn't refute me at all. Other people on other topic and other forums (and this forum) thinks this section confirms Lysa and LF were having an affair...

Still, nothing that will pass on court, but I think I could be correct... they were cheating on Jon Arryn.

Also, she when she says:

She meant on time between her escape to Eyrie and meeting LF. She means 2-3 years she have spent in Eyrie, hiding from Lannisters, were long and she couldn't bear it.

This could be... another full brother or sister for Robert.

Well, that's the meaning you give to the written words. I, on the other hand, read it exactly as I explained in my earlier posts. As for the last bit of the quote, your theory might have had some leverage had Lysa said "yet another child", but this is pretty clear to me - they have made a child together in Riverrun, it died and she has been waiting ever since for LF. Of course, both you and I know that GRRM gives us these lines on purpose, so that we can give them different interpretations. However, given the character of Lysa, had Robert been LF's she would have said it in her last rant. She has spilled all her secrets out. Why would she keep this one, especially in her state of mind near the very end? So, no. There is no way I find any ambiguity there.

[Nerevanin]

Honestly, I think it is possible. That idea just came to me a few days ago, I was glad when I found out that I was not the only one thinking it.

I am pretty sure that Lysa and LF slept together when they were both in King's Landing, we all know how madly in love Lysa was with Littlefinger, I doubt he managed to avoid any intimate moments with her. In fact it could be a way how he preserved her loyalty to him, he was kind to her and had an affair with her, she thought he loved her and she was protecting him and helping him at the court. I was always thinking that she wasn't able to bear a child but Robert because of the abortion her father forced her to do, but it's possible that she killed all Jon's children on purpose. Like, you didn't let me to have a child of a man I love, I won't have children of a man I hate either. She could be so possessive about Robert because he is Petyr's son. Robert is small. Although LF probably didn't have any of the health problems Robert has, it could be just a coincidence that Robert is ill.

Anyway, if Robert is really his son, I think LF doesn't know about it. He doesn't like him much, he is pretty disgusted by him in AFFC. Although LF isn't the kindest man ever, I don't think he'll treat his own son like that. Maybe Lysa didn't know either who Robert's father is but she didn't abort him because there was a chance that he is Petyr's.

The problem is that Lysa is dead, Jon Arryn as well and LF probably doesn't know about it, so I can't see a way it could be proved (unless Lysa wrote it on a piece of paper that will suddenly appear). I'd say that if Robert is Petyr's son, his purpose is to be killed by LF, probably by sweetsleep, and then LF somehow finds out that killed his son and breaks down with some consequences. Or that Robert will somehow survive his illness and becomes a part of LF's downfall, similarly how Tyrion killed Tywin. But at this point I can't see Robert surviving, I'd say he'll die in early AWOW.

[Petyr's Little Finger]

I'm convinced that LF would have had sex with Lysa when they were both in KL. After all Lysa was seriously in love with LF, and with LF so close by it is hard to conceive that Lysa and LF did not have any intimacy. LF having sec with Lysa would have been a useful way to keep Lysa loyal to LF. So yes perhaps LF is SR's father, however I don't think it will be revealed in the story or have any effect on the story. LF's plans with SR will be the same regardless if he or Jon Arryn is the father.

[Mikkel]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but I'm convinced that LF would have been stringing Lysa along for years while in King's Landing, anything else would be very risky, indeed. Everything we hear from Lysa sounds (to me) like a very frustrated woman finally able to get what she has wanted for years. But I concede that either interpretation could be true. I also don't think SR is LF's.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

SR was born in early 292 AC, placing his conception somewhere halfway through 291 AC.

Only in 289 AC did LF receive charge of the costums at Gulltown. Once Jon Arryn realized LF's talent for bringing in money, he brought LF to KL. Are 1,5-2 years enough for that? One can wonder. LF would have needed time to show his worth.

LF and Lyda definitely had an affair while in KL. The app confirmed it, and if you ask me, so did Lysa on her wedding day to LF.

I highly doubt, however, that Lysa would have killed her other children. They would still have been her children, after all.

[Mikkel]

I don't know what this "app" is - it's not available to me (don't know if I need to sell my soul to Apple or what is required, not going to do it any case) so I'll just have to take your word for it.

[mino]

I always thought Robin is so weak and incapable because Jon was so old when he spawned him (i know it doesn't matter in our world, but you could say the same about the "Joffrey has golden hair = not Robert's son" thing). Also it'd be rather odd for a man like LF having a son like Robert, even with Lysa as mother.

IMO he's just a result of the old, "consumed" Arryn blood.