Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Babies yes, but Robin is not a baby. Being breast fed at his age, coupled with being given sweets just to shut him up and being spoiled rotten is killing that kid.

Er it really isn't, try doing some research before you go around making those kinds of statements. Sorry but Breastfeeding doesn't stop being extremely good nutrition and emotional comfort. And it certainly is NOT on a parr with giving sweets to shut a kid up or being spoiled.

Breastmilk provides excellent nutrition as a supplement to other foods for as long as you carry on, and the physical & emotional comfort for the child is also a great value, especially when the child has an illness like SR. Yes GRRM was using the Stereotype of natural term BF to convey Lysa as an indulgent ott mother. Its a Negative stereotype which is completely wrong though, it sucks that he did that. But the actual truth is as far from that as you can get. Mothers who chose to do natural term bF are generally well informed, intelligent women who are not indulging a kid but rather have done the research and understand how beneficial it can be to them.

Also you might like to consider that when you make sweeping ignorant statements regarding things you clearly have no knowledge of that there may be people on the board with actual knowledge & experience in the area. So unless you have good sound up to date and backed up by science knowledge it is often best to keep your opinions to yourself when it comes to things like this.

Or even better do some research yourself and get informed. Start with Dr Katherine Dettwylers work on the natural age of weaning. Its fascinating.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Babies, yes. But I think our digestive variety as we grow older actually makes our systems more rigorous. Could be wrong. But the exercise point is exactly what I was saying...he's coddled and swaddled and as a result, weak.

Someone pointed out the premature birth, and that is also a reasonable factor.

Yes you are wrong. Whilst our immune system does indeed strengthen as we get older, Breastmilk does not cease to provide immune boosting properties because of that. The effect Breastmilk has on the digestive system is fantastic, it seals the gut preventing pathogens from permeating it and causing allergic reactions. For instance HMO's reach the human colon and have a pre biotic effect there creating a healthy gut colonisation, something we are now discovering has a life long effect upon overall health. Lactoferrin is an iron binding protien it enables optimal iron absorbtion and because it binds iron it robs bacteria of growth medium thus preventing infections. It also an essential growth factor for B-Cell Lymthocytes & T-Cell Lympthocytes. Which are anti body producing white blood cells & other constituents actually bind to pathogens and cause them to be excreted before they have a chance to cause infection. Aditionally Human Milk continues to provide a large bulk of the overall Fat, protein & vitamin requirements of a childs diet regardless of how old that child gets. In fact in the second year olf lactation the mothers body increases the level of fat in her milk as the child gets mobile and burns more calories moving about and experiencing cognitive & growth developments. The Specific fats in breast milk are involved in things like the development of the central nervous system. All this shit does not cease to be because a kid had a birthday.

So 6 is estimated at the upper end of natural term human breastfeeding would be without cultural and societal barriers, Lysa is just doing what comes naturally.

At 6 or there abouts the human immune system is largely fully developed, the brain is fully formed, and his adult teeth begin to come in, the Milk teeth begin to drop out and this development causes the child to no longer be able to effectively suckle at the breast. So if you are personally grossed out by a 6 yr old nursing so be it but its not freaky or a sign of madness. Even today in many cultures children continue to breastfeed well past infancy and no one bats an eye.

So onto the coddling, yes he is restricted from physical activity and lack of such no doubt has effected his muscular development. But frankly the kids got bigger issues than that, those shaking fits are not caused by Lysa preventing him from playing outside. And I think its most likely that its all down to him being premature. Which in and of itself causes diminutive stature and ill health, add in epilepsy and frankly what his mother does or does not allow him to do has jack shit to do with his feebleness.

And thus ends todays rant.

p.s I barely even touched on all the amazing stuff in BM.

[James Arryn]

It took me a Neil Simon-esque long time to work out that BM stood for breast milk...somehow biometrics was my first posit...but aside from that, consider me duly informed so far as it goes, and I feel were you to divulge more, it would exceed my storage space. (In a twisted way, a comment on our inelastic digestive system? Ha, twisted..)

I am currenty pondering the Adlerian ramifications of my ick-factor with regards to what you and I now affectionately(?) call BM.

More on this later. But post appreciated, in both a literal and temporal sense.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Good, I am always glad to help people Think more. I lactated for 5 years of my life believe me after a while you stop thinking of BM as remotely "icky" its just milk after all. same as Cows milk or Sheeps milk or Goats or even buffalo...MMMM mozarella.....

[MadQueenAmberTargaryen]

Okay this may be totally crack pot.. But what if the Tansy tea didn't completely kill the child and only caused him to be extremely sick.. Little sweetrobin. Bam!

[IRON BANK]

I think Lysa was talking about the very 1st baby she "lost" at Riverrun when she was still a teenager (before she was made to marry Lord Arryn). Lysa's first pregnancy was the result of her sleeping with Littlefinger at Riverrun. All of the later stillbirths, miscarriages and little Robert were Jon Arryn's children. If Robert would have been Littlefinger's son, Lysa would have told LF gladly.

I'm sure LF and Lysa had secret sex when they could in King's Landing, but not very often. Surely LF was careful not to get Lysa pregnant again? LF used sex and "love" to turn Lysa into his catspaw. Yes, Lysa is a total loon but she had a pretty unhappy life. She was constantly being used by men who claimed to love her. Is it any wonder she was so unstable at the end? First getting used by Petyr, then her father and then Petyr again. Lord Tully thought he was saving her from disgrace and shame when he had her drink the tansy tea and married her to a respectable older lord. As we all find out later, the damage was done. Lysa was ruined forever.

If Lysa and Petyr's affair would have been discovered when Lord Arryn was alive, LF would be killed or sent to the Wall and Lysa would have been shamed and sent to a septa house the rest of her life, never to see little Robert again. But the affair never came to light in King's Landing - or did it? I wonder if Varys knew about the affair and just didn't say anything? If anyone would know, it would be Varys.

Exactly: I BELIEVE THE CHILD IS Arryns. However LF will be rid of little Lord Robert as well.

[Mikkel]

Okay this may be totally crack pot.. But what if the Tansy tea didn't completely kill the child and only caused him to be extremely sick.. Little sweetrobin. Bam!

Timing wouldn't work out, I think.

Jon Arryn would have become ever-so-slightly suspicious when his wife gave birth a few months into their marriage.

Lysa conceived shortly after LF fought Brandon for Cat's hand.

Jon Arryn and Lysa were not married until well into the rebellion. I don't think there's enough time between when Lysa's baby by LF would have been born (if the abortion failed), and when she could be expected to give birth to any child of Jon's.

[MadQueenAmberTargaryen]

Timing wouldn't work out, I think.

Jon Arryn would have become ever-so-slightly suspicious when his wife gave birth a few months into their marriage.

Lysa conceived shortly after LF fought Brandon for Cat's hand.

Jon Arryn and Lysa were not married until well into the rebellion. I don't think there's enough time between when Lysa's baby by LF would have been born (if the abortion failed), and when she could be expected to give birth to any child of Jon's.

Like I said it was pretty crack pot lol I just thought if Robert were in fact pedofinger's son, it could be a factor (:

[Lord_Tyrell]

He was appointed to his position in Gulltown in 289 AL. Robert Arryn was born in 292 AL.

Again, LF isn't stupid enough to sleep with and father his bastard on his boss' wife while he's trying to climb to a position of power. And he hates Lysa.

First off, quit acting like hating Lysa is even a remote factor in this equation. It's not. He merely used her, and may have had to have sex with her to get his positions. Hating Lysa didn't stop him in the past or future from doing it.

Secondly, the dates can still easily allign.

I don't really prescribe to this theory, but it's completely plausible.

[Sweetgirl205]

Okay this may be totally crack pot.. But what if the Tansy tea didn't completely kill the child and only caused him to be extremely sick.. Little sweetrobin. Bam!

The Tansy tea could have stayed in her system too. Then she keeps breastfeeding that kid who gets weaker, and not stronger.

[Lee-Sensei]

First off, quit acting like hating Lysa is even a remote factor in this equation. It's not. He merely used her, and may have had to have sex with her to get his positions. Hating Lysa didn't stop him in the past or future from doing it.

Secondly, the dates can still easily allign.

I don't really prescribe to this theory, but it's completely plausible.

No. You stop acting like sleeping with his boss' wife and having her father his bastard is a sane and smart thing to do. He's not Jaime and Jon Arryn isn't Robert. He didn't need to sleep with Lysa to control her. Even when he's about to kill her, when she thinks he's saying that he loves her she lights up. She's obsessed with him and would do anything for him. She's his pawn

No it can't. Not unless he was almost immediately brought to Kings Landing.

[jon stark I]

I think Robert is definetly Jons son but the reason for his bad health is caused by Hoster Tully.A bad abortion like the one Lysa had can cause some future complications for her other pregnancies.As much as we know Jon was in perfect shape and while he was old at the time of rebellion he was leading an army and he fought so I think Robert Baratheon wasn't the only one with strong seed I think Jon had a healthy body because of his genes and the reason Lysa had too many miscarriage is because of her rough abortion which damaged her womb and the reason for Roberts fits.I think Lysa even had some of LFs babies in one of those miscarriages.

[Parizad]

Cersei had an abortion once and all her children are healthy. SR is sick because his father had fertility problems and on top of that he was old! It is a misconception that old fathers don't affect the health of their progeny. For example Autism Spectrum Disorder has a strong relationship to father's age.

[Newstar]

Right before lf pushes her off with his "only cat" comment she tells him I would have given you a son if they hadn't made me drink the tansy tea... Etc... So if she thought robin was lf's I feel like she would have said it then

Pretty much this. Lysa would proudly claim any child of LF's (to him, anyway), and if even she who would gladly bear LF's child implies that Sweetrobin isn't his, well...

I do think, however, that it's implied that LF and Lysa were having some kind of affair over several years:

“I want you now, this very night. And I must warn you, after all these years of silence and whisperings, I mean to scream when you love me. I am going to scream so loud they’ll hear me in the Eyrie!”

[Alia Atreides]

To be clear, Jon Arryn's size was not raised in correlation to his fertility, but with regards to the disparity between his appearance and SR's appearance that people are citing as a means of saying SR is not his child.

but his fertility is a mitigating factor; why no other child and the one born is not a strong healthy child even though Lysa was "thought" to be both strong and healthy at the time she gave birth?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

The Tansy tea could have stayed in her system too. Then she keeps breastfeeding that kid who gets weaker, and not stronger.

omg, do i really need to keep correcting the ignorance! Breastmilk is not made from what you consume. it is made from your actual blood. So any tea you drink isn't going into your blood. its being absorbed by your stomach having the direct action upon your body ie causing your womb to expel its contents and then the remainder excreted by your body. A cup of tea you drank in 282 (yr of Robert rebellion) is really not going to be effecting the milk you make in 292 (yer of Sweet Robins birth) and beyond. It won't effect the milk you make the next day even!

Even if some of the properties of Tansy Tea were to pass over into her blood (in the same way as some medications can.) the quantity which then passes into your alveoli and is therefore included in the milk which is produced there would be so minute as to have no actual effect upon the child. Very few drugs do have an effect on breastfed infants, all those warnings on packaging are mostly over caution. Hell the drug which is prescribed to increase Milk production Domperidone, when sold as an OTC anti nausea medication (Motilium 10) has the warning to avoid usage if pregnant or nursing. Obviously everything has its own half life. But certainly a decade would seem, well unheard of and extraordinary.

So no utter :bs:

Just wanted to add the disclaimer that some drugs definitely do pass into the milk and as such you should always consult an organisation such as The breastfeeding Network who have pharmacists who are properly knowledgeable about individual drugs and research pertaining to their effects upon the breastfed infant.

[jon stark I]

Cersei had an abortion once and all her children are healthy. SR is sick because his father had fertility problems and on top of that he was old! It is a misconception that old fathers don't affect the health of their progeny. For example Autism Spectrum Disorder has a strong relationship to father's age.

There is a difference Cersei had the best masters makng her an abortion pill(so to speak) while Hoster probably took a half cooked tansy from somewhere else(he didn't want it to be known) and willingness of the patient is also important.While I take old age as an important factor, it is totally normal for old man to have normal children also this man had literally no illness despite his age he was strong and healthy.The only one who had a unhealthy history in this marriage is Lysa also the amount of miscarriages she had is weird.Like I said if you let a butcher operate on you you might find out he took more then just the ill parts.

[Alia Atreides]

There is a difference Cersei had the best masters makng her an abortion pill(so to speak) while Hoster probably took a half cooked tansy from somewhere else(he didn't want it to be known) and willingness of the patient is also important.While I take old age as an important factor, it is totally normal for old man to have normal children also this man had literally no illness despite his age he was strong and healthy.The only one who had a unhealthy history in this marriage is Lysa also the amount of miscarriages she had is weird.Like I said if you let a butcher operate on you you might find out he took more then just the ill parts.

as you grow older I will just say the words your Sperm WEAKENS ok; you can appear to be a strong healthy person and have messed up sexual functions regarding babies. A Man makes up 50 percent of the genes if his sperm was damaged it could also be the cause of the miscarriages Lysa suffered. Why did none of his other wives carry children to term? Or I supposed they were just a barren women and nothing was the matter with Jon?

Furthermore, I don't think he would of turn over his child Hoster to some butcher (his own Maester would of done it for him no?) their House words Love, Honor, Duty? I don't think he set out to harm his child in anyway but rather protect her as he saw fit, he later on in life realized his mistake in this on his deathbed.

You do have a point that yea when women were forced to have "backroom abortions" so to speak it could give problems later on in other pregnancies I don't think this was the case. If it were only on Lysa as I said that. It has not been answered why was Jon Arryn childless then? Why not even say a bastard someplace out there from a one night stand hypothetically. ?

[jon stark I]

as you grow older I will just say the words your Sperm WEAKENS ok; you can appear to be a strong healthy person and have messed up sexual functions regarding babies. A Man makes up 50 percent of the genes if his sperm was damaged it could also be the cause of the miscarriages Lysa suffered. Why did none of his other wives carry children to term? Or I supposed they were just a barren women and nothing was the matter with Jon?

Furthermore, I don't think he would of turn over his child Hoster to some butcher (his own Maester would of done it for him no?) their House words Love, Honor, Duty? I don't think he set out to harm his child in anyway but rather protect her as he saw fit, he later on in life realized his mistake in this on his deathbed.

You do have a point that yea when women were forced to have "backroom abortions" so to speak it could give problems later on in other pregnancies I don't think this was the case. If it were only on Lysa as I said that. It has not been answered why was Jon Arryn childless then? Why not even say a bastard someplace out there from a one night stand hypothetically. ?

You are right about some of the points you make and I am not suggesting otherwise but we can also argue about another possibilites too.For example you said what was the problem of the other wifes and you are right but I think Jon was much much younger when he first married and the reason for not having a child might be that Jon is actually barren but Lysa never mentions LF about Robert being his child and he seems pretty sure about Jon as the father.So what was wrong with Jons other wifes?If Jon had weak sperm that might explain it.

About Hoster, I think Hoster is a wild card, first of all why would he say "Tansy" he was doing what he believed in(disgusting) and I don't suppose he would think back and say "Oh I should have just let Lysa marry LF" I think there was something deeper then just that one baby, I think he knew that "Tansy" was also one of the reasons for her miscarriages(I am not saying Lysa was the problem I am saying both of them had some problems because Lysa had too many miscarriages).Also Tully words are "Family,Duty,Honor".But do you really think the guy who made her daughter abort her love child then married her to an old guy without even asking her opinion would really care about her more then his houses honor?And you are probably right about Tully maester making the tansy but think about this like a man trying to play basketball right after a surgery, Lysa wouldn't be so calm after all that I think she could have hurted herself in sorrow and anger too(that might actually be a real thing) lots of people who lose someone give in to their anger and Lysa was already a little nuts by the time of her pregnancy.

[Alia Atreides]

You are right about some of the points you make and I am not suggesting otherwise but we can also argue about another possibilites too.For example you said what was the problem of the other wifes and you are right but I think Jon was much much younger when he first married and the reason for not having a child might be that Jon is actually barren but Lysa never mentions LF about Robert being his child and he seems pretty sure about Jon as the father.So what was wrong with Jons other wifes?If Jon had weak sperm that might explain it.

About Hoster, I think Hoster is a wild card, first of all why would he say "Tansy" he was doing what he believed in(disgusting) and I don't suppose he would think back and say "Oh I should have just let Lysa marry LF" I think there was something deeper then just that one baby, I think he knew that "Tansy" was also one of the reasons for her miscarriages(I am not saying Lysa was the problem I am saying both of them had some problems because Lysa had too many miscarriages).

Also Tully words are "Family,Duty,Honor".But do you really think the guy who made her daughter abort her love child then married her to an old guy without even asking her opinion would really care about her more then his houses honor?And you are probably right about Tully maester making the tansy but think about this like a man trying to play basketball right after a surgery, Lysa wouldn't be so calm after all that I think she could have hurted herself in sorrow and anger too(that might actually be a real thing) lots of people who lose someone give in to their anger and Lysa was already a little nuts by the time of her pregnancy.

Oh I am not saying by a long shot what her Dad did was right it was wrong on so many levels and it is probably a reason for Lysa snapping as she did; I think he regretted it years later as he no longer had a relationship with her any longer. Lysa too could of be broken inside not able to carry to term without problems hence all the miscarriages and she could of blamed her father as well as Tansy that she only had one child a child that she dearly and derangely loved.

As with the Family Duty Honor, perhaps I did not clarify it in that he saw it as not only protecting his daughter from siring a bastard (believe it or not our parents so much of the time are RIGHT about the mistakes their children are going to make), he did what he did to protect his family but also her as well in his own way.

Back to Jon Arryn though I do think he is the Dad not Littlefinger simply I don't think Littlefinger ever slept with her again until he had to do it :)