Jump to content

Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?


Lord Fowler

Recommended Posts

I personally do not think that Robert Arryn is Littlefinger's child.

Why?

Jon Arryn has a history of having bad luck with children.

  1. A stillborn child with his first wife Jeyne Royce,

  2. No children from his second wife, Rowena Arryn.

  3. A bunch of miscarriage with his third wifes, Lysa Tully, and one child. This child suffers fits of epilepsy and generally appears to be quite unhealthy and somewhat unhinged.

What is the one constant here? Jon Arryn.

Here's another little tidbit that seems to fit.

Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon were sent to be fostered by Jon Arryn. Why? Jon Arryn had no son that needed a playmate. Ned and Robert could've gone anywhere. But no, they went to Jon Arryn. I believe this was because he wanted children that he could call more or less his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Littlefinger is described as small but not too diminuative. Robin Arryn is very small for his age. Jon Arryn was described as a strong man for his age. The Tullys are fairly normal to strong in size. Unless the Tansy tea lord hoster forced upon Lysa messed up her internal chemistry permanently, this kid could be Littlefingers. Even if he knew, it would not matter to him. His character is so damn cold, he would sell out his own mother if he could get decent profit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

It is possible, but i don't think Littlefinger knows about it. He definitly counts on Swetrobin's death in his plans, a father wouldn't behave like this. Maybe ven Lysa was unaware of it, either way she would have told it to Petyr. she was truly in love with Littlefinger, she would have been very glad to have a child with him. I've always interpreted the "another child" as that one miscarried for her father's order, and not as a brother for Robert. Anyway, it cannot be excluded as a possibility, maybe it is planned to be a twist in the story later on, f. ex. how Littlefinger will react to know that Robert is his son.

A father wouldn't? What series have you been reading? Ask Sam Tarly's father what he'd do. There is more parental abuse and neglect in this series (especially towards bastards, cripples and broken things) than in all other literature combined.

Further, Littlefinger is a monster. He is a monstrously evil man. He would kill his own mother if he thought it would help him.

I'm currently reading the books for the first time (tho I've seen every ep of the show, and am somewhat spoiled as far as Littlefinger, Lysa etc), and I'm at the part in GoT where Cat first makes it to the Eyrie and meets Lysa and Robin. It seemed very obvious to me, a first time reader, that GRRM was indicating that Robin is not really Jon Arryn's.

After the small, sickly six year old starts sucking his mother's breast, here's the passage where Catelyn reacts: "Catelyn was at a loss for words. Jon Arryn's son, she thought incredulously."

This series is incredibly concerned with bloodlines and with traits and so on. Occasionally there will be a Samwell Tarly, who just isn't like his father for whatever reason, but for the most part, you can tell when someone isn't really someone's blood in this series - and you can usually make a good guess as to whose he really is, by observing the kid and considering the possible suspects. Catelyn's reaction to Robin (and very likely Jon Arryn's reaction to Robin) is eerily reminiscent of Robert Baratheon's reaction (privately, to Ned) to Joffrey. "My son. How could I ever have a son like that?" They know, at some level, even if they can't bring themselves to admit it.

We don't have to like it - a reader, not getting that it's one of the main themes, may just consider it trite and overused and lazy - but parentage and lineage and political marriages vs love matches, and the rights of the trueborn vs the baseborn are huge, dominating themes of the story.

To me it's as clear that Robin is Littlefinger's as it is that Joff is Jaime and Cersei's.

I will say also that throughout this series (at least from what I've gathered), GRRM uses children (and especially bastard children) to criticize, authorially punish, or otherwise reveal the real nature of parents. You want a judgment on Lannisters? Joffrey. You want a judgment on Starks? Jon. On Baratheons? Gendry. GRRM's last word on Littlefinger's nature is Robin Arryn. That's what Littlefinger really amounts to - a sick, weak little creep, a stunted mama's boy who plays with dolls and who loves watching men die simply because it entertains him and he's incapable of empathy.

It's much better storytelling if Robin is Littlefinger's, and as I say, I don't think attentive readers were meant to be in doubt about it any more than they were meant to be in doubt about Jon Snow's parentage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I left out the Bolton bastard from my previous post. It further makes the point - what is he if not a judgment/reveal by the author of the real nature of Roose Bolton and his entire house?



This does seem to be an obvious pattern in the books.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a notable lack of resemblance to Jon, in SR, and I wouldn't put it past LF, to plot on the death of his own child. Plus it would be a GRRM style twisted irony, that while "Alayne" is in fact a trueborn heir to a Great Lord, little lord Robert is not. If the theory holds true, this could play a BIG role in WoW.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Further interesting line from GoT, when Blackfish is talking to Catelyn on the way to the Eyrie:



"Six years old, sickly, and prone to weep if you take his dolls away."



Remind you of anyone? 'Prone to weep if you take his dolls away' is a great (metaphorical) description of LF. In this context it reads like a wink from GRRM.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think one of the best pieces of evidence for this idea is the manner in which Lysa addresses Littlefinger while they're consummating the marriage. Among other things, I think she shouts something to the effect of "Put another baby in me!" I know she'd already had an abortion back when she was 15, but since Jon Arryn was never able to have children with his other wives, I think Littlefinger was sticking his little finger to Lysa the whole time she was married to Jon. That's an easy way to explain why she always got Jon to appoint Littlefinger to higher and higher offices, she wanted access to him all the time.



Jon Arryn was probably too busy acting as the de facto king during Robert's reign. Plus whenever she did have Robert, he was more than excited to finally have a male heir. Even if he a suspicion that the kid was Littlefinger's, he might not have wanted to press the issue, because he didn't want to be publicly cuckolded, and the Arryn line was pretty close to being wiped out if he died without issue.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's very likely that she was lying here. Don't forget, this is the woman who was all too happy to blame her husband's death on the Lannisters.

She's unbalanced, obsessed with her son, not known for putting two and two together, and she has no other context for the words "Robert.. the seed is strong". Even if she knew about the Lannister incest, and there's no indication she did, the phrase "the seed is strong" wouldn't specifically mean anything to her. So she must have really thought that was what he meant.

GRR Martin was asked about this and said that Robert is Jon's son "so far as anyone knows". http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2761 So if that "anyone" includes Lysa and Petyr, then if Robert is Petyr's son, his parents don't know it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's entirely possible neither of them knows it, or even can know it for a certainty. Again, the Maury Povich Show situation. But I like GRRM's answer.



As to Lysa, as stated she was insane by that time, and had no context for Jon Arryn's dying words. It's quite in line with her particular kind of crazy to interpret "The seed is strong" as being Jon Arryn saying her weakling son was strong, regardless of who she thought the father was. She was only too happy to accept a random going away announcement that her son would make it.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I subscribed to this possibility a long time ago, and the latest GoT episode (S04E05 "The First of His Name") fueled my suspicion. The moment Petyr, and Sansa stepped into the throneroom of the Eyrie and Robert ran into his arms, they looked so much like father and son. If I were casting an actor to play Aiden Gillen's child, I would pick Lino Facioli.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just on a medical note if a man with a + blood type fathers a child with a women who has - blood they may be lucky enough to have one child. Any children after the first will most likely abort spontaneously as the mothers - blood antibodies attack the child as if it were an infection. It is considered that some of Henry VII's wives may have had this problem.

So it could be argued John Arryn was + blood & Lysa - however if LF was also - blood no problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, yes my sister had this problem, she had to take Anti-d through all her subsequent pregnancies to prevent spontaneous abortion. Also a women I used to work with lost her first child due to it.


Rhesus negative.



but we do know that Lysa took Tansy tea to abort LF's baby and that this can cause subsequent difficulties carrying a child to term. Perhaps both issues though, weren't a lot of Lysa's babies born early though as opposed to M/C'd? or am I getting show confused?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...