Sandor and Sansa

[AutomatedTeller]

Wow. This is the first time I've read anything that made me think that Sandor is actually alive. I'm glad I read it, cause i totally missed all that about the grave digger.

My belief about Sandor is that he really has no clue what he feels about Sansa, other than she (and Arya) are somehow meaningful to him.

I'm trying to figure out how bad a guy he is, though. A terrifying man, a killer, yes. I'm not sure he's done anything as bad as Jaime Lannister, though. Yes, he killed Mycah - but then, his king accused the boy of attacking him and ordered him dead. That's bad... but on the grand scale, not as bad as trying to kill Bran, for instance.

[iamthedave]

True, he has experienced/done a lot to warrant him staying there forever. I think he might feel like he can atone through new deeds as well especially against the Others, but I agree, I would be surprised to see him enter the Wo5K again.

The belief Sandor is coming back comes from a comment Martin made about it being interesting 'to finish Sandor's story'.

[Kaitscralt]

The belief Sandor is coming back comes from a comment Martin made about it being interesting 'to finish Sandor's story'.

I'd love to see a link or copy of that Q&A. Not that I doubt you, I'd just like to read that comment because this is the first I've heard of it and it seems like the alive/dead debate could be put to rest (at the monastery :rolleyes: ) if it was posted more often.

[Ser Kevan Raley]

From the HBO series I was reminded today about this from King Robert to Ned when the fate of Lady was decided:

"Get her a dog! She'll be happier for it."

Heh!

[Kaitscralt]

Still wondering if anyone knows what comment iamthedave was referring to by Martin. :uhoh:

I've been digging and I can't locate anything for the life of me.

[Jon Lannister]

Well, I think he just had a great anger towards Sansa, because she lived in that perfect world of her, wich, by the way, is really anoying. I, myself, used to half-liked her, and at "A Storm of Swords" I couldn't stand her anymore.

[Sam Thielman]

I've got a theory about Sandor: he's Sansa's replacement direwolf. All of the other kids have dogs who help them in necessary ways (Grey Wind becomes Robb's fellow warrior; Summer becomes Bran's legs, etc) and, after Sansa's is killed, she loses all of her agency. She desperately needs a protector - probably a harsh one, given the nature of the world - and look who shows up: the Hound. I don't think we've seen the last of him, and I'm pretty sure that his ultimate fate is tied up in hers.

[Horza]

Nice angle and a good first post!

[inkasrain]

I so badly want the "Clegane becomes Sansa's wolf-replacement protector" theory to pan out that I'm patently convinced it won't happen. Aside from a wonderfully symmetrical piece of literary irony, it would make me happy, and I have good reason to believe GRRM is fundamentally opposed to that.

[Faint]

The fact that Sansa is the only Stark left that doesn't have a direwolf has always fascinated me. Many take it as some signal that she is doomed but I've always regarded it as proof that she won't end up as a Stark and she certainly won't assume Winterfell. I think the 'Alayne Stone' persona is permanent.

[Huan]

The fact that Sansa is the only Stark left that doesn't have a direwolf has always fascinated me. Many take it as some signal that she is doomed but I've always regarded it as proof that she won't end up as a Stark and she certainly won't assume Winterfell. I think the 'Alayne Stone' persona is permanent.

There's something related to this in So Spake Martin:

April 15, 2008 - Future meetings, POVs, Arya's role, Eastern lands, and Assassins

[Will Sandor and Sansa meet?]

"Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There's only Alayne Stone."

[Kaitscralt]

There's something related to this in So Spake Martin:

April 15, 2008 - Future meetings, POVs, Arya's role, Eastern lands, and Assassins

[Will Sandor and Sansa meet?]

"Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There's only Alayne Stone."

He speaks just like the Elder Brother. Go figure.

[Mike]

I think the reason people are reluctant to let him go is because his arc did finish very suddenly. If it is finished, that is. We're with him and Arya all the way through ASOS and then suddenly.....he's vanished.

I always had the suspicion that Sandor was a device to show Sansa's burgeoning sexual awakening. And also a nice little "how being brutalised can rot someone from the inside" story. But I don't think he meant it as a "Romance" and I think he may have been taken aback when people ran with it.

So bye-bye Sandor.

Then why have him survive the fight with Beric Dondarrion? Why have Thoros of Myr say that the Lord of Light is not done with him and that he still had a part to play? He wasn't needed to get Arya to the Red Wedding. Beric and the BWB were already doing that. And if that was his purpose, why not have Arya kill him on screen? Sandor not factoring into the rest of the story in some capacity would not make a lot of sense.

edited to add: Just read through the entire thread and saw that you have already responded to this question.

[Mike]

Sandor on the Iron Throne! Make it happen, Martin!

Ten or so years ago, when this board was on eesite or ezboard, and before ASOS came out, I posted a theory that Sandor was an aspect of Azor Ahai, specifically that his story so far reflects the forging of Lightbringer. You know, passed through fire, tried to be tempered, shattered, passed through fire, tempered in heart of lion, shattered, etc. Pretty ridiculous notion, except to say the only way I see Sandor organically working himself back into the story is through the massive fight with the Others that is coming at some point. When that happens, it's going to be all hands on deck.

[Bajaz]

If she is old enough to bleed,she is old enough to breed.

[Keltess]

Then why have him survive the fight with Beric Dondarrion? Why have Thoros of Myr say that the Lord of Light is not done with him and that he still had a part to play? He wasn't needed to get Arya to the Red Wedding. Beric and the BWB were already doing that. And if that was his purpose, why not have Arya kill him on screen? Sandor not factoring into the rest of the story in some capacity would not make a lot of sense.

edited to add: Just read through the entire thread and saw that you have already responded to this question.

I have just finished all Ten pages of this thread and have some observations to make.

I think that Sandor is drawn to both Sansa and Arya partly at least out of respect for and a desire to emulate Eddard Stark's Uncorruptable Nobility. Eddard was the closest GRRM came to a "White" character. The Hound traveled to Winterfell with the Baratheon Entourage. He saw how the Stark retainers were treated and it must have seemed to anyone worlds better than how the Lannister's treat theirs. Basically: use until used up or no longer useful then shaft em. He may have contemplated a change of service as early as this. Another point I find fascinating is the Hounds helm. One thing the HBO series does not live up to in my view is how extensive Sandor's disfigurement is ! His lips were burned away on one side of his mouth and part of his jawbone was visible. He hid under that helm because though it was a snarling dog, his natural visage was far more terrifying to look upon. As for the Micah discussion. Lets not forget that Arya was missing when the child got ridden down and he was the last to see her other than Joff and Sansa neither of whom were being helpful or truthful. We are not positive that it was Sandor who actually rode him down.He may just have witnessed the killing and was bringing the boy's body back. Sandor may have even witnessed the entire episode with Joff, Sansa, Arya, Micah. Cersei does not strike me as the kind of mother who would let Joff go off into the countryside alone. I would bet 100 gold Dragons that Sandor was watching him from a discrete distance. It would make more sense that Micah be brought back for questioning to find Arya. Or,Micah's death may have been an accident. Think of how Sandor prevented Arya from running into the Red Wedding. In fact I think the Whole Sandor/Arya storyline is far more interesting than San/San and more revealing of Sandors deepest nature. He takes pretty good care of Arya even though she tries to kill him more than once. Although there is an even greater age disparity Sandor/ Arya could be a tremendous match. Their kids would be BAD ASS. Arya is the nobler and smarter of the two girls. She has the presence of mind to drive Nymeria away to save her. That and many other things she does under adverse circumstances shows her true capacity for real love and courage. What would have become of Sansa if their places had been reversed and Sansa ended up in Flea Bottom peniless? Does the thought of Pleasure House come to your mind cause it does mine. As for when girls are ready to take part in sexual activity that depends on the girl and if she is in love or not. 12 or 13 might be old enough under the right circumstances. And please people do not superimpose the STDs of our world onto this ASOIAF universe! The reason cervical cancer is higher among girls who are active young is due to Human Papiloma Virus, through having multiple partners. Yeah, I am a Registered Nurse and I have also worked in a Regional Hospital burn unit.

To sum up I hope Sandor does come back. He is Like to Inherit Castle Clegane. Sandor/Arya or Sandor/Brienne hmmm. Some Chicks do dig scars !

[Sam Thielman]

I so badly want the "Clegane becomes Sansa's wolf-replacement protector" theory to pan out that I'm patently convinced it won't happen. Aside from a wonderfully symmetrical piece of literary irony, it would make me happy, and I have good reason to believe GRRM is fundamentally opposed to that.

Heh. The latter is pretty much the reason I read the books (not your happiness specifically, but the expectations of fantasy readers like you and me). I think her longing for a truly noble knight figure will continue to be horribly realized in Sandor, although that is, of course, just a theory. He is, after all, fundamentally honorable, actually capable of keeping her safe, and desperately in love with her. He's just not handsome, or well-spoken, or kind - virtues that one suspects Sansa is learning to discount a little more than she used to at the beginning of the series.

[SerLady]

There's something related to this in So Spake Martin:

April 15, 2008 - Future meetings, POVs, Arya's role, Eastern lands, and Assassins

[Will Sandor and Sansa meet?]

"Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There's only Alayne Stone."

Note, there is that big may.

Trust GRRM to keep things cryptic. :rolleyes:

[Queen Dorothea]

So - if this was me writing ASOIAF (too bad it's not, I'd buy a megayacht) I'd not let Sansa and Sandor meet again throughout the plot, just let them both disappear with an unknown fate and then, in the Epilogue of Book 7, I'd show faceless changed Arya follow up on her way back to Essos, getting to the Inn at the Crossroads. There to her surprise she'd find Sandor as Innkeep and just when she's about to finally give him the gift of mercy, a young woman with auburn hair strolls into the Inn carrying a broom/loaf of bread/child (posisbly that of Harry the Heir)/little dog/whatever. So faceless Arya never says a word, empties her cup, pays the Innkeep and leaves.

And don't get me wrong, I hate fanfic, but someone here asked how Sansan supporters could envision their future.

[Salander]

I've got a theory about Sandor: he's Sansa's replacement direwolf. All of the other kids have dogs who help them in necessary ways (Grey Wind becomes Robb's fellow warrior; Summer becomes Bran's legs, etc) and, after Sansa's is killed, she loses all of her agency. She desperately needs a protector - probably a harsh one, given the nature of the world - and look who shows up: the Hound. I don't think we've seen the last of him, and I'm pretty sure that his ultimate fate is tied up in hers.

Oh wow! What a great theory. I seriously like it.