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Changes you wouldn't mind.

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Like, what're some changes you think they ought to make to make the show just better than the books in general?

Personally, me and UnCat don't jive. Beric, I get, he's a vivid example that magic is returning and the Thoros and the flaming sword stuff are pretty clearly paralleling the Others and their wights. But UnCat seems to exist solely as a vehicle to murder Freys, no one expects her to ever meet Arya, Sansa, Bran or Rickson, or that any of her children will even recognize her. Who knows where GRRM is gonna take UnCat, but I don't like her.

Gregorstein, though, deserves his own miniseries. When Dany arrives in Westeros, Qyburn is all like "I'm outta here!" And we had some nice 5 min. vignettes of Gregorstein with Qyburn riding his shoulder, as they explore GRRMworld.

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Personally, me and UnCat don't jive. Beric, I get, he's a vivid example that magic is returning and the Thoros and the flaming sword stuff are pretty clearly paralleling the Others and their wights. But UnCat seems to exist solely as a vehicle to murder Freys, no one expects her to ever meet Arya, Sansa, Bran or Rickson, or that any of her children will even recognize her. Who knows where GRRM is gonna take UnCat, but I don't like her.

I think Beric was introduced to pave the way for unCat. And Brienne recognised her, so I expect that her kids would do so also. Her meeting with Brienne should already have a major affect on one plot line and I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't eventually meet at least one of her kids.

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I tend to accept changes in adaptations with no much trouble, as long as I see a logical reason to do it. Even if I don't fully agree with the reasons or the direction taken, I lean to be tolerant and forgiving.

For instance, I understood the vision that PJ gave us of Faramir: after a whole movie throwing at our faces how powerful the Ring is, how is able to tempt and corrupt the more honorable and iron-willed of men and elves, to the point that Gandalf recoils at the idea of having it or Galadriel falters for a second, Faramir dismissing it as easily as he does in the novel didn't feel right.

Now, the logic of the change was sound, the development of it wasn't, and PJ failed to capture the essence of Faramir. But I understand the reasoning, so unlike others, never cry in protest. Just shake my head for the lost chance.

A different matter is the use of the Army of the Dead, specially when PJ stated that he didn't like them. You didn't like them but you give them more to do that the book did. Explain me that, please.

Regarding GOT, it seems the bigger change we are aware so far is the upgrade of Ned's martial skills. Well, I'm 100% behind this change. I think is more compelling for a visual medium to make Ned a bad ass, specially when since E1 you are pitting him against a fabulous swordman like Jaime, the same way you are pitting him against a poisonous scheming like Cercei. The audience wants to see how the protagonist will fare against them on their respective arenas.

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I already don't mind: the movement of the Tullys to season 2, and the hiring of a slim actress for Lysa.

I tend to only get in a tissy over characterization changes. I'm sure if they change some awesome plot to make it dumber, I'd find that irritating too. Settings and scenery and production values type stuff bother me less.

As for changes I would strongly like to see, well I wouldn't mind more scenes between female characters but I'm not holding my breath.

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Well, Ned is a politician, not a fighter. And even although he seems to be a bad ass in the series, we won't see a real fight to the death between him and Jaime, nor is the tension between these characters eventually resolved. Ned just dies with Jaime being elsewhere. End of story. I don't mind Jaime and Ned fighting before the brothel. But this fight would really work better if only Jaime was rumored to be one of the finest swords in the Realm and Ned just the average guy. The tension would be really greater this way. And, in fact, I really feared for Ned during the book awaiting that he would not stand a chance against Jaime if there would be a fight.

We don't need Lord Tywin to be a great fighter either to realize that he is even more bad ass than Jaime and Ned combined.

I'd not mind if the Brotherhood without Banners would be reduced to just outcasts other people talk about until season 3. I don't see that Arya meeting them can be dropped completely (especially the Harwin moment there is great), but I'd not mind if it would be reduced. UnCat most likely is going to become important in future volumes, so this should not be dropped in my opinion. She does not need to remain Mother Vengeance. If the Others descend on the South, I really can see her joining the wight army, determined not just to get her revenge but to wipe out humanity. She is, after all, no longer human.

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The big 2 changes seem to be (for now):

  1. Ned's fighting ability
  2. Vardis Egen taking Blackfish's role in S1

We may not see Roose also but that isn't confirmed yet. There are a lot of other smaller changes of course.

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Well, Ned is a politician, not a fighter. And even although he seems to be a bad ass in the series, we won't see a real fight to the death between him and Jaime, nor is the tension between these characters eventually resolved. Ned just dies with Jaime being elsewhere. End of story. I don't mind Jaime and Ned fighting before the brothel. But this fight would really work better if only Jaime was rumored to be one of the finest swords in the Realm and Ned just the average guy. The tension would be really greater this way. And, in fact, I really feared for Ned during the book awaiting that he would not stand a chance against Jaime if there would be a fight.

One of the things I liked about AGOT was that the "main" antagonism was between a dude and a chick, and of course Ned vs Cersei is still in the series, but there's certainly nothing about an amped up Ned vs Jaime that I personally need to see. I liked that we had Ned vs Cersei and Cat vs Jaime. Don't get me wrong, I love the confrontation between the two men in AGOT, but a lot of what I liked about it tonally seems to be changing, and not just the rain vs sunshine thing (more the fact that in the book it was such a shameless massacre, that impacted me so much, and a big part of it was the difference in attitude between the two men).

Ned's main role in life is ruler, part of it is leading an army yes, but only part (and his biggest strength there was his brain). Ned's main role in the story is investigator (and emo backstory expositor), and while badass hero man might be higher up on the pecking order of What Men On TV/In Movies Should Be, investigators aren't exactly impossible sells. There is a certain interplay in the book series between brain and brawn, between cleverness and might, thought and action, etc. As the first main hero, the fact that Ned was the way he was in the books played into that dynamic. You really never found the aspect of violence in his character gratuitous or his ethical qualms about it disingenuous.

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Well, Ned is a politician, not a fighter.

Lady Blackfish touched on it, but I don't see Ned as a politician, but as an able administrator. That's where his honor and sense of duty really shine. Anyway, making him a feared fighter is fine as long as he doesn't boast about it, that's not in his nature.

I also agree that changes to characterization would be the only thing that really bothered me. Arya's travels with the BwB could be reduced a lot, but not eliminated. Eh, I'm pretty easy-going and I'll just see how it goes. If I don't like something, I will post on the boards about it as it happens :)

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I admit it, if they ditch Dany's entire pregnancy I won't mind.

Why? What's wrong with it? It doesn't take up much time. Its just a fact. I don't see how they could drop it as it leads to Ned's falling out with Robert anyhow.

As for Ned, while I do miss book Ned, I have accepted that Ned will be different when it comes to fighting ability. It does change the character but I do think most of the fundamentals are still there. And at least I can see why they did it. Similarly with the Blackfish change. I'd only have an issue if major changes seemed completely random. That's been avoided so far, which is wonderful. Very few adaptations have been so fortunate.

It actually is an interesting question regarding whether Jaime will be shown as wicked as he is shown in aGoT when he has the Stark men killed. I have no reason to believe otherwise up to now.

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If they dropped Dany's pregnancy they could have dropped the whole Dothraki plot as well, along with Drogo ;-). This would make no sense at all...

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I admit it, if they ditch Dany's entire pregnancy I won't mind.

I would, as prophecy becomes more important to the storyline in later seasons I think having such a reminder that prophecy is not infallible adds a great deal of interest to the story.

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Lady Blackfish touched on it, but I don't see Ned as a politician, but as an able administrator. That's where his honor and sense of duty really shine. Anyway, making him a feared fighter is fine as long as he doesn't boast about it, that's not in his nature.

I see him as a very capable lord and ruler in the North. Once he ventures out of known territory he flounders around until Cersei eliminates him.

If they make him a better swordsman than he is in a book it'll be OK as long as it highlights Jory's sacrifice.

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Well, I see the clash with Cercei as politics. I think Ned would have made a wonderful Hand if he was just allowed to do his job. The behind the scenes politicking is what did him in and I see them as separate. It's true that in reality the Hand has to be good at both, but Ned had the administration and ruling thing down, IMO.

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If they make him a better swordsman than he is in a book it'll be OK as long as it highlights Jory's sacrifice.

Ned is clearly an above-average fighter in the books, so making him one of the "greats" in order to hype up his fight with Jaime and his men is reasonable, especially in the context of the Tower of Joy.

As for Jory, I wouldn't mind moving his sacrifice to the Tower of the Hand, with Arya finding him dead rather than Fat Tom. Or perhaps Jory getting cut down by some Lannisters while trying to buy some time for Arya. Either way, that fight needs to have someone we know and like die in it, and I don't think Fat Tom fights the bill, if only because I think they'll have a hard time justifying keeping such a minor character who can easily be merged with another guard.

Did Jory die in the fight with Jaime, or in the attempt to arrest Cersei & Co.? Can't remember.

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Ned came off like a fairly average-for-a-nobleman fighter to me (I'm thinking, like, 65th percentile), sure he survived wars but so did many men (and he would've had a guard around him in battle, I'd figure?). That he defeated Arthur Dayne, well, Ned himself said he wouldn't have if it hadn't been for Howland.

Jory died in the confrontation with Jaime. It was the big "Noooooooooo" moment.

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I wouldn't mind if they made Ned a badass fighter...

As long as he still had his ass handed to him by Jaime. ;)

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As long as he still had his ass handed to him by Jaime.

I just can't see that happen. It will be daring if they do, so I wouldn't mind.

Either way, that fight needs to have someone we know and like die in it, and I don't think Fat Tom fights the bill, if only because I think they'll have a hard time justifying keeping such a minor character who can easily be merged with another guard.

I'm not sure we need somebody well known to die then. The shock of Ned's arrest and the fact that his men are been wiped out should be bad enough. Admitttedly, Jory could survive the earlier fight but that would reduce Jaime's nastiness. So wouldn't be a big fan of that either.

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As for Jory, I wouldn't mind moving his sacrifice to the Tower of the Hand, with Arya finding him dead rather than Fat Tom. Or perhaps Jory getting cut down by some Lannisters while trying to buy some time for Arya. Either way, that fight needs to have someone we know and like die in it, and I don't think Fat Tom fights the bill...

Why the "needs"? Did the book not work for you? Personally I liked the way GRRM sequenced the disasters. Jory's death is the first and the worst on a personal level-- and it immediately drives home to Ned what an awful price he's going to pay for coming to KL, and that these people are much worse than he imagined. After that, he's still trying to accomplish something as the Hand, but he's on his own in a way that he wasn't before-- he's got some Winterfell men left, but not the ones he was closest to.

Then when it all falls apart and the massacre starts, we have Syrio trying to protect Arya and (presumably) dying-- which is more upsetting than Jory would be at that point, because we've gotten really attached to Syrio through Arya's eyes. Not to mention all the innocent noncombatants from Winterfell who get killed then too.

Did Jory die in the fight with Jaime, or in the attempt to arrest Cersei & Co.? Can't remember.

Jaime.

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We may not see Roose also but that isn't confirmed yet.

Uhhhh...this would be awful. If he doesn't exist in the TV series, who is going to lead that chunk of Robb's army? And who will Jaime meet at Harrenhall?

Unless you mean we won't see any actor portraying him, just hear his name...? Even then, Jaime meeting up with him at Harrenhall, "give him my regards", etc. is a pretty important part IMO.

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