[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion, Mark II

[Lannister? Barely knew 'er]

THIS! :bowdown:

I'm dying for screencaps! I watched the episode 3 times and haven't seen half the details that have been pointed out in these threads. Others with crystal swords or icicles? An Unsullied... smiling?? Ethereal glow around Dany and Viserys? Screencaps, screencaps, please! Anybody? Anywhere? Share?

How did we ever manage before DVRs?

Other with an icicle/crystal sword, in the process of beheading: http://i52.tinypic.com/23vj7kw.jpg

Unsullied smiling (hard to see in a still photo, but he's smiling, honest!): http://i55.tinypic.com/2ce6rv5.png

I haven't seen the ethereal glow, but if someone can describe where it is I'll see if I can get a screencap of that too.

[Lannister? Barely knew 'er]

RE: the possible Doom of Valyria mural.

I just watched the episode again, and the mural behind Viserys definitely depicts ships on the ocean. And in wider shots, the ocean appears to rise behind them, carrying other ships. I'm not 100% sure about this, and I know this is possibly wishful thinking on my part, but I'm really starting to think the mural does depict the Doom. Would anyone happen to have screenshots of the episode that show this mural?

http://i53.tinypic.com/34gmuk3.png

[brook]

My husband ranted for about 15 minutes straight about the injustice of Bran's 'death', I haven't told him he lives yet, its too amusing :D

I really enjoyed the chemistry between Cat and Ned, I'm still not sold on the changes to Cat's character but she looks beautiful and seeing the Starks together and happy nearly broke my heart knowing what is in store.

I also thought the crypt scene was wonderfully done by Addy, his pain felt genuine.

Overall I was never going to be perfectly happy with everything but I think they did a great job.

[Dragonfish]

http://i53.tinypic.com/34gmuk3.png

Thanks, that helps. But later on in the scene more of the mural is shown, could you or someone else get a screenshot of that?

[juicy b0nes]

I also thought the crypt scene was wonderfully done by Addy, his pain felt genuine.

I enjoyed this scene also. Did anyone else recognize how they really wanted Addy to sweat when coming down there to emphasize him being out of shape? it was just like the book! yet another small detail added which fills me with excitement for the coming episodes!

[Myrish swan]

I don't remember Cersei from AGoT well at all, but I agree completely that for TV it works better to show her as a complex and somewhat sympathetic character. Her disgust/inability to control Robert's behavior was key to establishing the power dynamic between men and women in the show. And it was probably also the best way to show us the moral complexity in Ned's decision to support Robert. Rahter than just telling us that Robert is a bad king, Cersei shows us that he hurts his family and obviously has offended a powerful noble house that otherwise should have been among his strongest supporters. And perhaps most importantly, it helps make sense of her and Jaime.

if their husbands are jerks, there's very little they can (officially) do about it. I thought it was brilliant to pair the over-the-top cruelty of Viserys towards his sister, with the more subtle cruelty of Robert towards Cersei.

I agree with this completely. I also think that by showing Robert’s blatant, thoughtless womanizing, the tv series may just be bringing up a question that has always bothered me—namely, are Cersei’s actions with Jaime actually worse than Robert’s with half of the women of kings landing? Is Robert truly morally superior to the incestuous Cersei? Or was the later simply giving as good as she got?

I think the show is going to give us an interesting way to explore Cersei’s character by presenting her from a slightly different perspective. From the first book, she is presented as very much the villain of the series; Ned distrusts and (initially with insufficient cause) seems to hate her. However, if you think about it, though her actions in the first three books prove her to be a ruthless and highly grey character, but there are some indications that she has some decent motives behind her morally repellent actions. Is she a truly evil bitch, or just a proud, ambitious, and unforgiving woman, doing what needs to be done to keep herself and her loved ones safe in a dangerous political environment?

In the books, the answer to this is clear, especially after Cersei gets her own POV in AFFC. She is pure evil, with few redeeming qualities. However, I think that presenting the character through the medium of television may allow for a certain amount of ambiguity in her actions that the books lacked.

Furthermore, I think the T.V. show may allow Cersei something that the books repeatedly refuse her: dignity. In some of the scenes with Lena Heady, it seems as though she is playing Cersei less as a malicious harpy, more as a woman who knows what she must do for power, and is willing to do it. There also seems to be some warmth in the scene we’ve seen with Sansa, which is something Cersei does not get much of in the books either.

[Myrish swan]

My husband ranted for about 15 minutes straight about the injustice of Bran's 'death', I haven't told him he lives yet, its too amusing :D

Ha! It is indeed fun (and funny) to watch this series with people who haven't read the books. Their reactions, and their innocent sureness about what "has to happen" is just priceless. I was watching it with my two roomates, and their reactions to the "the things I do for love" scene alone was just great. First they both flipped out over the big incest reveal ("Oh my God, that isn't... is that HIS SISTER! Oh, gross!!!!") Then, their reaction to Bran's fall. ("Oh no... he's dead! I can't believe they just killed a little kid on T.V.") Then, when they saw the preview for next weeks episode, they kept talking about how Catelyn and/ or Ned will get revenge on Jaime.

My one roommate asked me, "Is the dad going to get revenge now?"

I just said, "Don't worry, Ned Stark will get his." They both seemed very comforted by that, hee hee.

[juicy b0nes]

I just said, "Don't worry, Ned Stark will get his." They both seemed very comforted by that, hee hee.

baw haha, well put response. Almost up there with a Tyrion quip!

[The Anti-Targ]

Ha! It is indeed fun (and funny) to watch this series with people who haven't read the books. Their reactions, and their innocent sureness about what "has to happen" is just priceless. I was watching it with my two roomates, and their reactions to the "the things I do for love" scene alone was just great. First they both flipped out over the big incest reveal ("Oh my God, that isn't... is that HIS SISTER! Oh, gross!!!!") Then, their reaction to Bran's fall. ("Oh no... he's dead! I can't believe they just killed a little kid on T.V.") Then, when they saw the preview for next weeks episode, they kept talking about how Catelyn and/ or Ned will get revenge on Jaime.

My one roommate asked me, "Is the dad going to get revenge now?"

I just said, "Don't worry, Ned Stark will get his." They both seemed very comforted by that, hee hee.

Cruelness, are you a Lannister to treat your friends so? :P

See, this is the bummer about being in a country where it's not on TV so there are no noobs for me to toy with over what happens. Though my brother-in-law will be watching the show soon and he's never read the books, that should be fun, only I won't get to see the look on his face because he lives in a different city.

Really glad these scenes are getting people emotionally worked up.

[elmis]

I don't like that the Hound is so old in the HBO series. In the books he's what? 27-28 or around there.. in the series he looks older than Jamie. Rory McCann is 42, and he looks like he's 42.

I wonder how they'll play out the whole Sansa bit if it goes that far. I can a traumatised mid twenties man without much of a real childhood being so interested in Sansa without it getting super creepy (sepcially with how mature the Stark kids are), but a 40 year old dude?

[DemiNymph]

I don't like that the Hound is so old in the HBO series. In the books he's what? 27-28 or around there.. in the series he looks older than Jamie. Rory McCann is 42, and he looks like he's 42.

I wonder how they'll play out the whole Sansa bit if it goes that far. I can a traumatised mid twenties man without much of a real childhood being so interested in Sansa without it getting super creepy (sepcially with how mature the Stark kids are), but a 40 year old dude?

Oh, it is not unheard of. Remember Jorah Mormont vs Dany.

[arrowfan]

I don't like that the Hound is so old in the HBO series. In the books he's what? 27-28 or around there.. in the series he looks older than Jamie. Rory McCann is 42, and he looks like he's 42.

I wonder how they'll play out the whole Sansa bit if it goes that far. I can a traumatised mid twenties man without much of a real childhood being so interested in Sansa without it getting super creepy (sepcially with how mature the Stark kids are), but a 40 year old dude?

Well they did "age-up" a number of the characters for the HBO production. But for me, I don't have a problem with his age; I picture him more like the fan art, more goth I guess. Sandor is tough character to flesh out.

Anyway, definitely looking forward to his talking parts in eps to come!

Edit: and as long as the actor for Sandor is believable, I think the parts with Sansa will be just as creepy and cool as in the books

[The Anti-Targ]

Is Shagga the only one who notices how ridiculous the servant seemed when running into the middle of the set and yelling "My lady, that water is too hot!" (paraphrase)

Did I miss something?

Couldn't there have been a better way to make the point that Dany is heat-resistant?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________This is the post of Shagga son of Dolf!

You missed the part, many moons ago, where George said Dany is not heat resistant and her event at the end of the book is a one time deal, never to be repeated, unique confluence of mystical energies blah de blah.

It was a random line thrown in as something for the fans to pick up on as a foreshadowing of that future significant event.

Personally I don't think the line was all that well delivered, but what can you expect from some random, wannabe, no name, walk on actress.

[Tywin's bastard]

Oh, it is not unheard of. Remember Jorah Mormont vs Dany.

Not to talk about Grand Maester Pycelle and the young ones he's paying for.

[Hedwig]

One question that I haven't found answered in the threads I looked so far:

I know that Jennifer Ehle was originally supposed to portray Catelyn Stark. What was the reason that she was replaced?

In my opinion, she would have made a much better Catelyn whose portrayal was one of the only things that left me a bit meh after the first episode.

[Lannister? Barely knew 'er]

Thanks, that helps. But later on in the scene more of the mural is shown, could you or someone else get a screenshot of that?

There isn't much more to see, really. http://i54.tinypic.com/b3v0y0.png shows more of the mural, but it's in less focus than before.

[The Iceman of the North]

The one scene I was disapointed in was the direwolf scene. In the books, even when reading them the first time, I was able to pick up on all the little omens that were in that scene. With all kids getting a pup except Jon, with the stags antler killing the direwolf, with the finding of the white pup. All of the mystical and oracle properties of that scene just weren't there.

Didn't someone straight out mention the hart/direwolf omen in the book?

Is Shagga the only one who notices how ridiculous the servant seemed when running into the middle of the set and yelling "My lady, that water is too hot!" (paraphrase)

Did I miss something?

I agree, it would have made more sense if she said it before Dany stepped into the pool.

[Papa Manderly's Meat Pie]

No. It shows during Dany's rebirth scene. That's the first time we see it.

:bowdown:

Guess I should double-check my source material before posting!

[Papa Manderly's Meat Pie]

Other with an icicle/crystal sword, in the process of beheading: http://i52.tinypic.com/23vj7kw.jpg

Don't know if you noticed this, but in your sreenshot it looks like there is another Other standing in the background. You can only see his head, right about where Gared's head used to be. Is that what I think it is?

[Lannister? Barely knew 'er]

Don't know if you noticed this, but in your sreenshot it looks like there is another Other standing in the background. You can only see his head, right about where Gared's head used to be. Is that what I think it is?

There are at least four Others in that shot that I count. There's the one with the sword beheading Gared, the other (#2) behind Gared that you saw, a third one behind and to the left of #2, and a fourth one to the right of #1. The third one's hard to make out in the single frame but it's definitely there, and the fourth one is easy to see if you know where to look.

I'm not sure what you think it is- not Ser Royce, I don't think. Just about a split second earlier (before Gared falls to the side) you can see Other #2 holding another ice sword.