[ADWD Spoilers] Bran

[CrypticWeirwood]

Bloodraven could easily be the Great Other.

The Darkness line outlined in an earlier post stuck out to me as well. it doesn't make a lot of sense if the children/blodoraven had only good itentions.

Wow, you’d think people were on drugs when reading. Do you really believe the whole Lord of Light shtick, that priests who burn people alive are good?

Of course they aren’t. And neither is darkness always evil. It protects and hides.

[CrypticWeirwood]

The pessimist in me knows that the poor boy will spend his long life as part of a tree, watching his family go on without him. He just wanted to be a knight.

And a knight he shall be, thanks to Hodor.

[DragonSpawn]

In complete contradiction to another post i wrote somewhere -

Brandon Stark is evil!!! The 'others' are the tools of the wargs and greenseers. Bloodraven is raising an army of dead to kill the Dragons / Targaryens (Bloodraven knew they had escaped and would return) but needs Bran to lead the final battle. Bran will steal Jon Snows body - and noone will know. I mean c'mon - why would Coldhands not want Jon to know his brother is alive? - what bastard would do that!? Coldhands also killed some of the NW too... and the cave is gaurded by Others! Bran also has a fetish for body snatching Hodor and if Meera is still alive - i think a Hodor-rape might be coming :whip: Varamyr is also part of Summers pack now isn't he? ... that can't be good either... And none of the Stark kids seem to give a damn about each other really... none of them seemed to be that keen to find each other when shit hit the fan, so to speak... "When winter comes, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives..." well... they are all about as isolated as they can get... and dropping like flies... and with a childish brat like Bran as the master-warg things can only get worse... (he's almost as bad as Joffrey)

oh .. and the Dragon breathing shadow fire... that's anti-Azhor Ahai - Bran ... with Danaerys being AA... they will go head to head... the wolf with wings refers to Brans conquest as 'the great other'... the big 'other' with the hardcore obsidian sword we saw in the pro-logue to GoT was Bloodraven... The reason he left the wall is after a falling out with Aemon Targaryen...

Edit: Typos

[Wouter]

Wow, you’d think people were on drugs when reading. Do you really believe the whole Lord of Light shtick, that priests who burn people alive are good?

Of course they aren’t. And neither is darkness always evil. It protects and hides.

Exactly, both darkness and light/fire have their uses. Darkness is damn handy when one wants to sleep, for example. Or to hide. In the case of Bloodraven and Bran, it's also handy for Bran that he doesn't see his hideous teacher all too well or at all!

Every religion/power has some (sometimes a lot) sinister elements to it. The High Septon is a disturbing fanatic who seems to hate women. The Red God and the drowned god followers seem to sacrifice people in quick succession, and either views everyone not of their religion as enemies. The many-faced God seems to be a front for killers-for-hire. The slaver/harpy gods are, well, slavers.

And the old Gods/"children of the forest" also demand their sacrifice now and again. Doesn't turn them into the Others. OTOH, the paste that Bran did eat was described in a really sinister way.

[ThinPaperWings]

I really thought Coldhands got an actual pig. It does seems strange to be able to find a domesticated pig in the winter in the wild. Could it have been a female wild boar? I'll have to pay more attention to that passage when I do a re-read.

I think the comments about no one religion in the series being all good are spot on. Goes hand in hand with the idea that virtually all the characters in the series are morally grey. So what's up with the Others? I will be really shocked if they turn out to be 100% evil. I'm surprised to see so little speculation as to how this will play out. I think it's actually the biggest mystery of the series.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Bran live out the rest of his life in the cave, that's just the way George likes things. Bran will be very powerful, but at the cost of a normal human life (even the life of a paraplegic lordling). Magic always costs something in Westeros.

Can't wait to see the wall come down. Chekov's gun can work here. You don't establish a magnificent structure in the first act unless you want to demolish it as part of a major action set piece in the third act. Also, in order for the impact of the Others to truly be felt in Westeros, and not just the North, the wall has to come down. We know the wall isn't just a physical barrier raised by magic, but a physical barrier with defensive magical properties.

[arakis]

Is it just me or does Bran seem a bit Deus ex machinaish, I mean, from now onwards preaty much anything can happen and GRRM coul always use Bran as a device....

Although I seriusly doubt that.

Also on another point someone mentioned that Greanseer are physicly chalinged to balance their powers, but Bran was not that way when he was born, he was made a criple but born a greanseer.

I also find that the Red god or their preisthood is far more sinister then they come out to be. They are all over the place moving strings and controling characters.

BTW I konda like the FM religion, they to me seem the only ones that are not controled by selfih motieves, oh and its peacefull....

while I find that the others are obviusly evil, (maybe I little to obviusly, cant wait for martin to show us whats behind the wail of winter)

and the gods of man, seem too Greek/Romany, resembeling man and and their flaws. I find that the children of the forest maybe protectors of the earth and universal balance, so while they will fight the others (making them good)I am preaty sure they wont shy away from killing all of man(making them bad) if they somehow unsettle the balance.

Also this is my second post here, I just read trough all the books, and am realy anoyed at this *forum.

*because I have learned just how many things I missed.:D btw as some might get from my username I am Herbert fan, and no its not a mispelling of Arrakis but rather the translation to my native tonge(Serbin)

[Bommes]

Hey guys, I just registered to specifically post in this thread ;)

I think Bran will be one of the most important character in the last 2 books, just because he is just such a powerful storytelling tool and I think GRRM was 100% sure where he wants to get Bran in his story and how he will get there at a very early period of his writing process (which is quite easy, because he has no connections to any other characters during his journey).

But what do you think of the wolfdream Jon had in CoK Chapter 53 under the new circumstances of Bran actually getting a tree? I will quote the most important passages here, the circumstances are that Jon is on his mission with Qoren Halfhand and when he falls asleep a weirwood whispers to Ghost

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. [...] A Weirwood. Red eyes looked at

him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his

brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other

scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something

else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair

bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first

you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

I think this is very interesting, as it provides a lot of room for speculation. But first of all it proves, that weirwoods can actually communicate with animals (or only direwolves?), which gives us a lot of potential for the upcoming Jon - Bran relationship in tWoW. Also there is obviously the smell of death, but this can mean a lot. Maybe Bran is actually an "evil force"? Or he had to sacrifice Summer to get a real greenseer (which doesn't really make sense, but who knows)? Or it is just a symbol for him being burrowed in a cave, bound to a tree and never getting out into the sun again?

What do you think about this passage? :)

[Lummel]

When I first read ACOK my thought was that the smell of death was the smell of the winterfell crypts, which was where Bran & co were hiding out.

We now know that Bran has only just in ADWD learnt to be present through the weirwood, leaving aside the smell of death, given that Bran repeats Bloodraven's phrase about the dark it seems that Bran is communicating into the past - which Bloodraven has told him is impossible.

This takes the story in an interesting direction. As a throwaway it means that Bran is more powerful than Bloodraven, but the serious point is that Bran is a causal factor in story, apparently able to intervene to communicate with characters. Does he also talk to Arya in Harrenhall? Is he responsible for the significant dreams that people have when they sleep on Weirwood stumps? Is he deliberately not saying anything to Robb in the godswood at Riverun? How far back in the past is he able to talk, might he revolutionise the Lyanna Rhaegar story by trying to act through history to produce the PWWP because he can't physically confront the Others himself?

[Fishy]

When I first read ACOK my thought was that the smell of death was the smell of the winterfell crypts, which was where Bran & co were hiding out.

We now know that Bran has only just in ADWD learnt to be present through the weirwood, leaving aside the smell of death, given that Bran repeats Bloodraven's phrase about the dark it seems that Bran is communicating into the past - which Bloodraven has told him is impossible.

This takes the story in an interesting direction. As a throwaway it means that Bran is more powerful than Bloodraven, but the serious point is that Bran is a causal factor in story, apparently able to intervene to communicate with characters. Does he also talk to Arya in Harrenhall? Is he responsible for the significant dreams that people have when they sleep on Weirwood stumps? Is he deliberately not saying anything to Robb in the godswood at Riverun? How far back in the past is he able to talk, might he revolutionise the Lyanna Rhaegar story by trying to act through history to produce the PWWP because he can't physically confront the Others himself?

Not very likely, even if ACOK and ASOS he recalls talking to Jon or trying to when he's dreaming. He needs the crow to help and teach him, but he was always able to do so. If he wanted badly enough. If he could actually communicate into the past then none of this would have ever happened and the world would be a safe happy place, where everything would be fixed by him time after time again. Or do you honestly believe Bran would let himself fall, his father beheaded, his brother brutally murdered along with his mother, Theon returning to kill them all and see Winterfell burned? He would stop it all if he had the power, and that's why I desperately hope he doesn't have that kind of power. Because it would mean 1 of 2 things.

1.) He goes back and restores everything to peace

2.) He does not go back and he let's his family and friends die??? What kind of person would that make him...

[gowenfawr]

A lot of talk about Bran talking (or trying to) through the trees... haven't seen anything about Bran trying to communicate through the ravens who can speak and not just "rustle". After Bran learned to inhabit the ravens, I had the sense a few times that he was trying to communicate with Jon through Mormont's bird. The instance that jumped out at me most was when the raven called him "Jon Snow" as opposed to just "snow". Unfortunately, Jon seems to be as deaf (and not just to the bird) as Melisandre is blind. Even if Bran never leaves the caves, I think he will play a large part in the impending battle. If he can see through the trees, and communicate through the ravens, he would be invaluable as a "central command center". A good metaphor for the comics nerds would be DC's Oracle.

Right on... and Lord Brynden laid it all out for us:

"All," Lord Brynden said. "It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven... but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."

Leter on there's the part where we're clubbed over the head with Jon's raven calling him "Jon Snow" instead of just "Snow", and Jon thinking it's never done that before. It's hard not to read that as Bran making his initial forays at talking through birds. So I think it's a safe prediction that Bran will be interacting with other characters in the future without leaving his tree.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

And a knight he shall be, thanks to Hodor.

I think of Hodor cowering in his mind when Bran takes over and I hope not.

[Cydal]

I loved the Bloodraven reveal and Bran's chapters in the book.

I'm especially interested that Mel saw Bloodraven and Bran as her enemies in the flames, especially with Bryden's lines about becoming one with the darkness. We realllllllllllllly need the rest of that dude's story ASAP.

I hope Bran doesn't end up stuck to a tree for the rest of his life. And I hope the Reed kids will be okay. They were not happy campers in that cave.

I don't think she's sure as of yet if they are her enemies. She did ask are they my enemies?? friends?? or are they my frenemies?? R'hllor guide me. Her words exactly

[acslaterson]

Not sure if this really belongs here but has anyone suggested that Bran might be one of the "Dragonriders"? The first thing I thought when I read the line, "You will never walk again, but you will fly", I thought "Holy crap, 3 of the Starks are going to warg with the Dragons!". Like I said not sure if anyone has kicked this idea around that they might not physically ride the dragons.

[P. Moore]

Not sure if this really belongs here but has anyone suggested that Bran might be one of the "Dragonriders"? The first thing I thought when I read the line, "You will never walk again, but you will fly", I thought "Holy crap, 3 of the Starks are going to warg with the Dragons!". Like I said not sure if anyone has kicked this idea around that they might not physically ride the dragons.

When GRRM spoke at the GooglePlex a few weeks ago someone asked can people warg into dragons. Martin smiled a sneaky smile and said, "We shall see."

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[Howdyphillip]

His life will become virtual reality. Cared for by the root system and the Children he will live a couple hundred years judging by Bloodraven.

A point that I was thinking is that We know that Bloodraven had to be at least fairly advanced in years by the time he could have possibly started becoming one with the wierwood throne. (I say that for lack of a term.) If it extends an older mans life as such, then Bran might have the possibility of living millenniums.

I actually believe that this may become a plot point in the later novels, with Bran being able to manipulate time in some fashion.

[Dragons Dancing]

Bloodraven is approximately 135 years old in ADWD and he is fading. I doubt Bran will live much longer than this. I do not see Bran joining the weirwood permanently until later in his life like Bloodraven did. Bloodraven led a long life out in the human world as Hand to a King and Lord Commander to the NW before going underground.

Bran will likely have the same opportunity to live a long life amoung humans. The first Brandon the Builder who built the Wall and Winterfell was likely a greenseer. I hope Bran lives beyond the Others invasion as his sorcery/greenseer talents will be needed to help rebuild.

[Lord Godric]

The sole reason I believe Bran will leave the cave he is in is because of his companions. Not only do I expect Jojen, Meera and Hodor to eventually leave the cave (Bran couldn't ask them to spend the rest of their lives there even if he is willing to spend the rest of his), but I also expect we will see them leave and journey back to the Wall. Unless we get a Jojen/Meera/Hodor PoV, which I strongly doubt, then Bran must accompany them. I also don't think we've seen the last of Coldhands, the mystery of just who he is will hopefully be fully resolved.

I don't think just because Bran leaves that cave that he wouldn't be able to use his powers elsewhere. Especially the warging. I think Bran will be a large player in the final two books, and I just don't want to see him spend all that time in the cave, even if he has a thousand eyes and one.

[TheEvilKing]

I completely expect the Childrens' wards to fail toward the end of the next book, and the wights/Others to attack the cave and kill almost everyone including Blodraven. Bran will escape, along with Hodor, Meera, Summer, Leaf, and Coldhands will survive the battle somewhere outside the cave too. The greenseers and perhaps Jojen will give their lives for Bran to escape.

I think the cave's wards will fail around the same time as the magic at the Wall will stop working, so Bran will be caught behind enemy lines in the War for the Dawn.

[RobMRobM]

One quick thought and then a big one that occurred to me as I just re-read ACOK.

- All should recall that Bran was Chapter 1 of AGOT. I doubt that placement was mere convenience. Crystal clear to me he will be at the heart of the eventual resolution of the tale. Not clear precisely which way that will occur, but he won't just sit in the tree with no chapters over the next few books, as suggested by one poster upstream. (Note - this is not an original idea of mine - I believe Preston Moore has made the same point in one of his essays on AGOT.)

- To my main point - I was reviewing the posts this this thread specifically to discuss the point raised by Boomes above at 127. I'm mow 90% convinced that Jon got his warg dream in ACOK from future AWOW Bran rather than ACOK Bran. Couple of reasons why this makes sense - even though this will lead us into the difficulties of all time travel tropes

+ First point is that ACOK Bran didn't have sufficient mastery of the power to find Jon, appear to him and open Jon's third eye sufficient to warg Jon into Ghost. He didn't exercise any of that type of power from ACOK onward and, moreover, never mentioned to Jojen and Meera that he had done so. He was only a newbie warg himself. So unless he just happened into this power by luck in a dream and didn't remember any of it, I'm having trouble seeing how ACOK Bran could have done this.

+ Look carefully at the text highlighted by Boomes above. It is fully consistent with Bran being in the tree as of AWOW when he touches Jon. "Not before the crow." He's not talking about his crow dreams but the actual crow in person. "He smelled wolf and tree and boy..." and "the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone...." All consistent with Bran being inside the tree and mountain rather than just in a Winterfell crypt. In fact, if we compare that text to the descriptions of undertree world in ADWD, I bet they'll closely match. "Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them." I'll have to re-read the ADWD chapters but I believe Bran expresses fear of being in the dark under the tree and Bloodraven and the Children say he'll come to like it. That ties to Bran coming into his powers and liking them - as well as the second sentence, which fully comports with the excellent discussion in a post above of early Bran in AGOT talking about why he liked climbing - he could see others without them seeing him. The AWOW Bran will like being in the tree and doing things with his new powers.

+ Talking about Chekhov's gun - Bloodraven says while a greenseer can see the past he can't alter it. My thought is that Bran proves to be stronger than Bloodraven and can affect the past - he gives Jon the boost, which shocks BR, and then BR tells him not to do it again (otherwise we'd see more Future Bran machinations - although I will be keeping my eye out for hints of future Bran's interventions as I do my next re-read. Most likely we would see that with Jon and Lord Mormont's raven.)

+ I should note I don't have a clear theory about the smell of death there - unless it refers to the old decayed greenseers or to Coldhands and the wights outside. Whatever form of death it is, Bran is familiar with it and comforts Jon.

Rob

[TheEvilKing]

I think the smell of death is the blood sacrifice required to power the heart trees.