[ADWD SPOILERS] Dany's prophecy from Mirri regarding Drogo and her apparent fertility

[Scotty J]

I didn't view it as a prophecy either, but it might have changed with time.. lol, it's sad, but this does happen in writing. However, I think it's clear that Dany is barren from the wording. It doesn't make sense to list a bunch of things that can't happen next to something that can.. it's pretty obvious that she's barren - it's not her imagination!

[dreamcatcher]

Ah yes but it wasn't a living child. Interesting that the bit about her being barren was not in the TV show.

Something is fishy with this. Why not include it with everything else?

It could be that Dany dies in childbirth - that would fulfil the last part of the prophecy.

("When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”

Now, it's most likely that her womb quickened, but she didn't bear a living child. Some other time (some other man's child) maybe?

I just don't understand why they didn't include it in the show.

[Ampersand]

Since I'm taking MMD's "prophecy" (probably unintentional on her part but purposeful on Martin's part) as being fairly metaphorical, I'm going to assert that the dragons are Dany's living children, and that Drogon returning to Dany when she shouts for him is the result of the other conditions being fulfilled. Her relationship with Drogo parallels her relationship with Drogon; when she calls to him and he returns to be mounted (see: Dany having sex with Drogo; when she was on top, their relationship approached one of equals), the "prophecy" has been fulfilled.

I think it's only a prophecy for the readers, though. More like foreshadowing.

[rhaze]

Its easy to misinterpet when there are no rules. Its kind of a cheap literary trick that some authors use. They use "unreliable narratives" and unfulfilling prophecies so they can change things as it strikes them. Oh yeah I know it said that, but that was wrong. Oh yeah I know this doesnt add up according to what the book said, but yeah they were wrong. Right, it doesnt make sense at all but thats only because he only THOUGHT thats what he saw.

[Rydis]

I think that the prophecy was fulfilled in the last Dany chapter. That would mean that Drogo will come back, but how? I think that his soul/mind/whatever will posess Drogon, and that he will finally listen to/obey Dany.

There has been no such proof of any such thing happening before in the series. Also..Drogo wasn't one to just "obey".

[Realm's piece]

I guess Mirri gave the prophecy when Khal Drogo was alive (well 'alive' after blood magic). Dany kills Drogo - and so possibly interferes with the prophecy being fulfilled re: Khal Drogo's return? So while it's possible that other parts of the prophecy may come true (e.g. Dany gets pregnant), it's hard to see Khal Drogo per se coming back. I guess the metaphorical Drogon returning or the Khalasar returning to Dany may satisfy the prophecy, at least metaphorically.

[blackseer]

I am too lazy to read all the posts, so idk if someone already mentioned it. Could the mountains blowing in the wind have anythind to do with the Windblown company? They had a lot of emphasys in this book through Quentyn, so there must be something important about them, other than wanting to conquer Pentos.

[voodooqueen126]

Something is fishy with this. Why not include it with everything else?

It could be that Dany dies in childbirth - that would fulfil the last part of the prophecy.

("When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Now, it's most likely that her womb quickened, but she didn't bear a living child. Some other time (some other man's child) maybe?

I just don't understand why they didn't include it in the show.

If she died after delivering a living child then she would see Khal Drogo in the afterlife.

[Katydid]

4) Dany noticing blood coming from her... could be her womb quickening or a miscarriage due to the berries she ate.

Interesting, I didn't even consider that Dany might have been miscarrying in that sequence. The way it was described (with the amount of blood, the diarrhea /cramping and her extreme thirst), I just assumed she had caught "The Pale Mare" sickness, which was finally manifesting itself.

[Silmarien]

So, most people tend to either see MMD's words as not a prophesy, or see that her conditions have been fulfilled. Interesting topic btw, OP.

I agree that Dany was likely suffering from a miscarriage in her final ADWD chapter (thank goodness - the baby would've been Daario's, ugh). I think that Drogon is Khal Drogo's spirit, so to speak, and her bonding and riding him has fulfilled the most important part of the curse/prophesy.

I also think the idea that Dany would die in childbirth (having a living child) is possible. I don't think the Targ line is doomed. Why would we be wasting so much time with the "last" Targ (I'm assuming Aegon's fake, or a Blackfyre), if she won't be able to have children to continue her line? I don't think it makes sense, in the narrative. Just IMHO.

[Hasfast]

As written in The Citadel:

I: 635 - MIRRI MAZ DUUR’S PROPHECY

P. 635

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

This might be a real prophecy, or it may simply be a sort of curse to strike terror and despair into Daenerys's heart. The conditions put forward have a distinct ring of fairy-tale about them, and with Martin this could just as easily be taken to work against the likelihood of them coming true as in favour of it.

It is not stated that it's a prophecy, but it could just as well be. If we look into another work of fantasy, The Silmarillion by Tolkien (From whom Martin himself have claimed to have drawn influence for his works), we see that curses, oaths and prophecies are intimately the same, usually coming true at the same time in all three natures. Mirri may have meant it, like the quote above and many posts suggest, as a curse to rob Daenerys of all hope, thus bringing her down to her own miserable state, while unwillingly becoming an instrument to tell a truth that has not yet come to pass, or has turned out partially to be true.

Contrary to what some people here seem to think, I don't think this is poor writing or a device to keep things conveniently obscure so as to allow Martin to change events at will and still have them fit into the plot. He has not written a single thing that I had been able to truly predict, and that's really commendable in an author. Fluffy narrative and George R. R. Martin seem very divorced to me.

Now, my own addition to the idea... "Mountains blow in the wind like leaves", why does it have to do with Gregor/Robert? Isn't the heart of Vaes Dothrak called the Mother of Mountains? I think if there's a prophecy concerning Drogo, Dany and her son, it should have more to do with the Dothraki. D.R.

[Mansiago]

I have an other theory abut that.

First, when she is about to have sex with Hizdahr, she reminds the part of the prophecy that says, 'When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before', and when I read this my first thing was 'In the following pages I will read how Drogon will come back from his hunting'. So I think that now she has not a child, but she can have it (or maybe has it), remember that in the final chapter of ADWD we read about her period for the first time in the whole series? That's not there for nothing. And what happened at the pits, Drogon came back,

Second, when Victarion is at sea going to Mereen, he says he'll sail the Dothraki Sea, and somebody says that it's not a sea of water, it's a dry sea of grass. And when she's walking all alone in the dry Dothraki sea, who comes back? Drogon.

I don't have anything about the sun rising at west and about a flying mountain, but that may come later.

And I know that these are not literally the things that MMD said, but only a little bit different, so does the name of the black dragon 'Drogon'. So I think that the prophecy will be done but not with Drogo but with Drogon. If you can notice, he comes back two times, the two after something related with the prophecy and any time he comes back, she learns how to control better the dragon, how to tame the dragon, and all that without magic.

And as many of you say, maybe it's not a real prophecy, and that would be why it turns 'real' in that way with Drogon and not with Drogo.

[Sol_Virtus]

I have always personally thought that way too much has been read into this "prophecy."

It was just a poetic way of MMD telling Dany: Never. Drogo will never be as he was. And oh, by the way, your womb is messed up and you will never have anymore children.

We know Drogo can never "be as he was." He's dead. And Dany's implied miscarriage isn't the contradiction and/or fulfillment of a mystic prophecy....it's just a confirmation of MMD's diagnosis. Her womb is damaged. She can't carry a child to term.

[CrypticWeirwood]

And Dany's implied miscarriage isn't the contradiction and/or fulfillment of a mystic prophecy....it's just a confirmation of MMD's diagnosis. Her womb is damaged. She can't carry a child to term.

Damage that MMD herself was the one to cause.

I'm still not convinced we have enough Targs to carry on the line.

[ghost the direwolf]

Who ever said it was a prophecy, I think she was saying he'll never be normal. Mirri assumes Dany to be barren. Maybe she was and the event that hatched the dragons healed her or maybe Mirri was just wrong. Its never stated that it is a prophecy.

I always felt that it was not a prophesy. (glad i found someone who thinks that way to). :drunk:

[Silmarien]

Damage that MMD herself was the one to cause.

I'm still not convinced we have enough Targs to carry on the line.

Dany and Jon?

Aegon (true too even if he's a Blackfyre, he has Targ blood, though not as pure)

There could be others. Everyone is always complaining about all the hidden Targs...

I think MMD's words were a curse, or perhaps part of something she interpreted in a vision that she did not fully comprehend (she sure didn't see those dragons coming, did she?).

[Net-Viper X]

I think maybe Dany being barren is the point. The Targs have shown that their bloodline is tainted with a violent madness and if she is barren then the Targ dynasty will die out and the madness with it.

I personally wouldnt mind this since I get so tired of hearing her preach of usurper about Robert like she has some entitlement to Westeros. The people of Westeros ruled themselves for thousands of years before the Targs invaded, and the Targs only ruled for a few hundred. If anything the Targs were the usurpers and the only reason they won at all is because they had a "Game Genie cheat code" called Dragons. If they didn't have the ability to take power through honorable force of arms, then they didn't deserve to win. If Mike Tyson showed up at a boxing match and pulled out a 357 and shot his opponent, noone would talk about the glory of Tysons first round victory, they would all say what a murdering coward he was, so why don't people feel the same way about the Targs? I guess its because Dany has nicer tits than Tyson.

[The Human Abstract]

How are we sure she had a miscarriage and not simply her period?

[Miriel]

Do we need more Targs? Would it be so bad if Dany was the last? Really? I mean, bad for Dany. I don't wish childlessness on anyone, assuming they want children.

But, realistically, the Targs are a bit nuts much of the time. Their either conquering, or burning, or causing havoc in general. And many of them have been tormented by prophetic dreams. A tormented family really. I know there have been some good ones (love me some Egg--really!). But there seems to be a great deal of sadness associated with this house.

Perhaps the remnants of the dynasty (well, Dany) can heroically save the world from whatever is on the horizon and then quietly disappear (after a long and happy life of course--I for one want Dany to be able to live out her life in the house with the red door).

Would that be so bad? ( Imagine, evil defeated and a bonus: no crazy fire loving/dragon riding/ world conquering Kings roaming about, looking for trouble to cause).

(I am not really taking Jon into account here--I love Jon and would be happy for him to have kids, say w/ Val for instance. I do not want to see Jon and Dany hook up if he is in fact Rhaeger's son--that just seems a bit much to my taste).

[Val the Wildling Princess]

How are we sure she had a miscarriage and not simply her period?

We can't be sure I guess, she could even not have a miscarriage either, some women can bleed occasionally during their pregnancy, especially the first 3 months, I've known a couple of cases now and all of them had their children. I'm not a doctor of course, but maybe the berries she ate and made her sick could have caused her the bleeding, I really can't recall now if it was a heavy bleeding or what, though.