[ADWD spoiler] The Varys Thread

[Cat from The Canals]

All I know is I hope that GRRM adds Varys as a POV character. I love how in terms of nobility and breeding Varys and Littlefinger are considered nothing but so far they have made the biggest power moves in "the game of thrones." They both effortlessly manipulate queens and kings and those they cannot, they kill with nothing more than a whisper. Look at how Littlefinger put together that whole Stark v Lannister thing. And now Varys and this Aegon thing.... I can't wait to see how this ends up. i just hope I dont have to wait 5 years to know. :(

[Fishy]

After offing Kevan is there any doubt left that Varys set up Tywin's murder via Tyrion?

Yes, perhaps he had hoped for it. But he couldn't know for certain. So he may have played a part, he may have wished for it but in the end Varys is no more responsible then Jaime. Tyrion killed is father.

I'm on board the "Aegon is a Blackfyre and Varys is either a Blackfyre or a big fan" bandwagon. Unlike some other theories, it pretty much fits everything Varys said to Kevan - and I believe that Varys spoke the truth to Kevan. Lying to Kevan as he died for the benefit of some unseen observer that Varys knows about but we don't would be contrived and cheap writing.

"The children" would be Aegon and the other current members of House Blackfyre, who are adrift and presumably close to being extinguished as a distinct family line in Essos. As for the good of the realm, Varys has observed and participated in the misrule of Aerys. He knows how badly the Targaryen descendants of Daeron have degenerated, and as a Blackfyre supporter or family member, Varys would believe that the realm could only benefit if the misfortune which saw Daeron prevail over Daemon is now corrected by placing Daemon's descendant on the throne.

Of course, from what we saw of Aegon, he seems like a spoiled child prone to tantrums and reluctant to study his mistakes. He also seems to have no qualms about marrying his father's sister, despite having been raised in the religion of the Seven from the moment he was old enough to understand. But that's neither here nor there - Varys might be lying to himself about Aegon but he wasn't lying to Kevan.

Raised in the faith of the Seven and having no problems marrying a member of your family is pretty much true for near all Targaryans. They followed the seven but they constantly ignored two laws (incest and monagamy) afterall Dragons do not answer to men, or even Gods.

And Aegon might be a spoiled child to some extent, on the other hand the way Varys describes him does make him trained to rule. The fact that he would like to personally lead a battle is nothing all that strange, he has the right of it and though mostly done for his personal glory it's still a good move to show yourself on the field of battle. Tyrion made a huge point of this with Joffrey during the battle of Blackwater. The Goldcloacks even started deserting when Joffrey left their side. Aegon could also realize that if he wants to be King he should lead from the front, instead of sitting back and letting other people fight and win his wars for him.

[Child_of_the_Forest]

I honestly think Varys blames himself for Aerys being mad. Either that or he was the reason Aerys though Rhaegar wanted to take the throne. Maybe Varys wanted that (Aerys was mad after all) and Varys wanted to protect the realm. Where he failed he has done what he can to protect the children (Daenarys and Aegon my guess is IF Jon is a child of Rhaegar Varys doesn't know it... Rhaegar got Lyanna out of there. hmmm) Remember he didn't know about Ned being beheaded. He doesn't know everything.

Hmmm but kinda off topic but not really.. who were these children. MAYBE his little birds OR MAYBE ... children from the Guild of Faceless Men to finish off Kevan Lannister. (The little girl who opened the door Arya? )

[Roi Woodt]

Funny thing I just thought about.

I remember Varys being described once as the prince of thieves.

They clearly had it backward, he is currently better known as the thief of princes.

[The Dark Griffin]

I think Lord Varys and others hit the nail on the head. However, the OP's query is an interesting one. I like the notion that "for the children" meant "for the Targaryen children", the ones who died at Tywin Lannister's prompting. Or survived.

[darrylzero]

After offing Kevan is there any doubt left that Varys set up Tywin's murder via Tyrion?

Yes, perhaps he had hoped for it. But he couldn't know for certain. So he may have played a part, he may have wished for it but in the end Varys is no more responsible then Jaime. Tyrion killed is father.

I am completely on board with both of these comments. I think it looks increasingly likely that Varys did his best to make sure Tyrion would kill Tywin, but that doesn't absolve Tyrion's responsibility for what happened in any way (I personally think killing Tywin was the right thing to do, and killing Shae was indefensible but interesting from a character-development standpoint).

Did Varys know about Tysha? I can't remember.

[chrisdaw]

I believe he is sincere in that he serves the realm, and that he believes the best thing for the realm is another Aegon Targaryen rule similar to that of Aegon the unlikely, and has been scheming for a long time to make it a reality.

[Salieri]

I'm pretty certain Varys knew Shae was in bed with Tywin, he probably sent her to him himself. I think he put all the pieces in place to make the probability of Tyrion killing Tywin more likely than not, and putting her in bed with Tywin is certainly one big push. I'm sure there were plenty of ways out of the Red Keep that didn't involve passing the ladder to Tywin's rooms.

I'm of the belief that Varys is trying his best to setup Aegon, true or false, on the throne as he believes he has created the perfect ruler who can see all sides of the coin.

In regards to the children and daggers in their hands, I wouldn't be surprised if at the start of tWoW there are a whole load of people in the Red Keep who have come to an untimely end, major and minor. Varys has staged some managed coup from within the walls. After all finding Pycelle and Kevan dead/missing is going to be mighty suspicious, someone will have to be blamed. Is Varys going to pass this off on the Tyrells?

The children are definitely not supernatural in any way imo. Trying to link them to the Others is wishful thinking.

[The Greatmatt]

The thought occurred to me that possibly Varys and Qyburn were in cahoots. It honestly seemed strange to me that Qyburn just showed up in Tywin's chamber Varys-style, and then Qyburn filled in as the Spider well enough that Cersei thought "I guess we didn't need Varys after all" when Qyburn had no apparent experience in that kind of role.

The glaring difference is that Qyburn & Varys appear to be on different sides of sorcery, but that itself could be a lie.

[Lord Varys]

Qyburn only works with Varys's normal agents. He never had access to his little birds or more than common knowledge about the Red Keep. Varys hides somewhere down there, and I'm sure no one but him would be able to find him down there. The best guess for his base of operations would be somewhere down that well Arya saw him and Illyrio ascending back in AGoT.

[BladeDancer]

I doubt Varys has been in the Red Keep for all this time. He must have scarpered and hid in King's Landing. Jaime and his men were crawling through all the secret passages they could find after Tywin's death, so it would have been an unneccessary risk to remain there. Not to mention it would have been unhealthy, trying to find food etc. It seems likely he was in some safe house in KL. He knows a lot about secret passages in the Red Keep, so could pop in to do some spying/assassination whenever he wanted.

It will be interesting to see how the Lannister's cope with Varys secretly sabotaging things and Nym secretly working for the Dornish agenda with her poisons! Cersei is already paranoid about people working against her, now she will have two players doing just that and Tyrion is not one of them. Nym is supposedly a master of posions. As such she knows a lot about undetectably administering poisons to food as well as using contact posions on all sorts of objects. She will know about poisons to make people ill and also hallucinagens and mood altering substances, as well as addictive substances. Varys is a master of disguise who has a wide network of spies and has extensive knowledge of secret passages within the Red Keep. Those two working against you are enough to make anyone paranoid, but of course Cersei already is! They can cause Cersei so much trouble! LOL

[kav2001c]

Varys can change his appearance so totally that noone (even Tyrion) can recognize him.

I am sure if he stays in the city close to the castle none of the commoners would ever know him.

Although I am disappointed he did nothing after Tyrion fled...

[mbb]

So at the ending epilogue of ADWD, Varys kills Kevan Lannister and basically tells him that he needs the realm to be in chaos so that Jon Connington and Prince Aegon can gain the throne.

So that means that Varys is Pro-Targ right?

But if that's the case then why did Varys support the assassination of Dany under Robert B. and his council back in AGOT?

The attempted assassination of Dany was witnessed firsthand during Dany's POV and we know that Ser Jorah spoiled the attempt because he knew firsthand of it; so we can safely say that the assassin was sent by Robert B. and council. (including Varys)

But then what's the point of Varys being on the side of murdering Dany if he is pro-Targ? I understand that at that point Dany did not have the dragons, but she was married to Khal Drogo and she was the glue that was supposed to bind Drogo and his Khal/Army to Viserys, so murdering her would've lost Viserys his army.

Also, the Dothraki army storming Westeros under Targ banners was Illyrio's idea (And therefore, Varys' as well, no?) So where's the sense in destroying the most important cog in your own masterplan?

I doesn't make any sense. Or am I missing something?

[Stubby]

Merging Threads

[sholtzma]

I didn't read every page of this thread, but wouldn't Varys and Illyrio be interested in setting up a false Targaryen, that looked the part, but had no real Targ (mental illness) blood? This might explain much. In addition, Aegon is young and might be seen as easy to control, hence a mummer's dragon. The name would bring peace, but no dangerous dragons or mental illness from the new false line.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I am completely on board with both of these comments. I think it looks increasingly likely that Varys did his best to make sure Tyrion would kill Tywin, but that doesn't absolve Tyrion's responsibility for what happened in any way (I personally think killing Tywin was the right thing to do, and killing Shae was indefensible but interesting from a character-development standpoint).

Did Varys know about Tysha? I can't remember.

I think that Varys set the pieces up, gave Tywin Shae when he could have picked any whore for him to sleep with. took the route he took and said it's the hands tower they were under. but if tyrion didn't kill his daddy, then i think he would have died some other way.

[CrypticWeirwood]

In regards to his 'little birds', is anyone able to verify if my recall of the following information is correct (can't find anything about them on Wiki and Varys entry is vague):

1. Are they mute? For some reason I had the impression they were rendered unable to speak by removing their tongues.
   
   
2. Are they slaves? Slaves who have been taught to read and write. Again I've been assuming that Varys sources them from Illyrio, and they arrive pretty much fully trained (and muted).
   

Tell me, what is the purpose of muting children who are literate, who very specifically could read and write? That doesn’t make any sense. They could always write down whatever they might care to spill.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Raised in the faith of the Seven and having no problems marrying a member of your family is pretty much true for near all Targaryans. They followed the seven but they constantly ignored two laws (incest and monagamy) afterall Dragons do not answer to men, or even Gods.

True, but they were surrounded by living examples and raised by others who practiced incest from the day they were born. If "Aegon" really is Aegon Targaryen, incest is something he's only heard about and the faith he's been raised in since he could understand holds that it's practice is an abomination. Maybe it's an indicator that "Aegon" is really a Blackfyre and not Aegon Targaryen, maybe it means nothing, but Aegon's eagerness to be the consort of his father's little sister seems odd.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Except that Varys says he hates magic.

Words are wind.

[CrypticWeirwood]

After offing Kevan is there any doubt left that Varys set up Tywin's murder via Tyrion?

Yes, of course there is.