Galen M Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Ned worshipped the old gods, not the Seven. Knights by definition in Westeros are creatures of the Seven, who are newcomers. yes, I know that, which is why I said what I said. However if he is a warrior, who fights like a knight, then mayhaps he would have the equivalent of a squire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 yes, I know that, which is why I said what I said. However if he is a warrior, who fights like a knight, then mayhaps he would have the equivalent of a squire. One of Jon's duties as the Lord Commander's steward was to "squire" for him in battle. I think this may be an indication that the word "squire" does not imply that one must serve a knight (since Jon and maybe Jeor are followers of the old gods, and Jeor is not a knight). A squire may very well serve anyone who has certain martial duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 One of Jon's duties as the Lord Commander's steward was to "squire" for him in battle. I think this may be an indication that the word "squire" does not imply that one must serve a knight (since Jon and maybe Jeor are followers of the old gods, and Jeor is not a knight). A squire may very well serve anyone who has certain martial duties.I think we have good evidence that Mormonts are Andal descendants, and not First Men. Jorah is obviously a knight, and Jeor makes quite a point about mentioning "your gods" to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I think we have good evidence that Mormonts are Andal descendants, and not First Men. Jorah is obviously a knight, and Jeor makes quite a point about mentioning "your gods" to Jon. Yes, that's why I said that Jeor was "maybe" a follower of the old gods. In any event, Jon is certainly not a follower of the Seven, so the word "squire" doesn't make sense when applied to him, unless it has applications that aren't completely restricted to followers of the Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 In any event, Jon is certainly not a follower of the Seven, so the word "squire" doesn't make sense when applied to him, unless it has applications that aren't completely restricted to followers of the Seven. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johirrim Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 In any event, Jon is certainly not a follower of the Seven, so the word "squire" doesn't make sense when applied to him, unless it has applications that aren't completely restricted to followers of the Seven. Indeed. Else Stannis wouldn't be having Devan as his squire, and have other knights about him. I would say its more about cultural adaptation. Although in Stannis case he changed his faith while keeping most of his traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmarien Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think we have good evidence that Mormonts are Andal descendants, and not First Men. Jorah is obviously a knight, and Jeor makes quite a point about mentioning "your gods" to Jon.But the Mormont ladies seem to be in the "Old Gods" camp, so why wouldn't Jeor and Ser Jorah? I say this after just having reread The Sacrifice, ADWD, chapter, with Alyssane Mormont showing Asha the godswood. ETA: Jeor Mormont calling them "your gods" doesn't mean they aren't HIS gods too...he could just be illustrating a point? Otherwise, the Andal descent thing just doesn't make sense, given where Bear Island is situated (very far north, close to the Wall - and we know the Mountain clans, the Umbers, and all the Wildlings keep the old gods). It makes sense with the Manderlys because they live close to the Riverlands, and are a coastal power. Edited Again to add: I don't see why being a knight would distinguish someone as keeping the new gods. There are plenty of Northmen who are knights, and most Northmen keep the old gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 But the Mormont ladies seem to be in the "Old Gods" camp, so why wouldn't Jeor and Ser Jorah? I say this after just having reread The Sacrifice, ADWD, chapter, with Alyssane Mormont showing Asha the godswood. Do you have a quote for this? That'd really settle my curiosity. Otherwise, the Andal descent thing just doesn't make sense, given where Bear Island is situated (very far north, close to the Wall - and we know the Mountain clans, the Umbers, and all the Wildlings keep the old gods). The Mormonts were gifted Bear Island by King Rodrik Stark, similar to how the area around White Harbor was given to the Manderlys. We don't really know what their origins were before that, but it makes total sense to speculate that they may have been Andal descendants and followers of the Seven, in light of the fact that Jorah is a knight and Jeory says "your gods." Edited Again to add: I don't see why being a knight would distinguish someone as keeping the new gods. There are plenty of Northmen who are knights, and most Northmen keep the old gods. Well, knighthood is explicitly a tradition of the Seven. There are actually relatively few northmen who are knights, and those northmen who are knights at the very least pay lip service to the Seven, most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 These are probably really stupid questions, but...:)I am rereading AFFC and wondered if the Nagga could be the stone dragon that Melisandre is looking for? It's bones are made of stone. By the way, what the hell is a sea dragon? I mean what does it do? Apart from feed on krakens/leviathans and drown whole islands? Does it breathe water instead of fire? Can it live outside the water? Can it fly? Does it even have wings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmflavius Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 These are probably really stupid questions, but... :) I am rereading AFFC and wondered if the Nagga could be the stone dragon that Melisandre is looking for? It's bones are made of stone. By the way, what the hell is a sea dragon? I mean what does it do? Apart from feed on krakens/leviathans and drown whole islands? Does it breathe water instead of fire? Can it live outside the water? Can it fly? Does it even have wings? I think it was actually a sea creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 @zmflaviusSo nothing to do with the other dragons. You are probably right. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrytales Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 guys c'mon, isn't catching GRRM making a TRUE slip exicitng? :) To remind you: my claim is Arya couldn't possibly visit Wind Witch in AGOT. When I posted it taurunum dire cat said she used the tunnels, but I checked it (post #265) and what Arya did is she used the tunnels to get out of the Red Keep into the city, and after that GRRM goes a long way describing how it is not possible for her to get outside the city walls. So how come she saw Wind Witch then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Dog Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Random background stuff:It's said in ASoS that Harrenhal has a bathhouse consisting of bathtubs like in the Free Cities (or in one of them), where 7 or 8 people fit in. But do we ever learn what a bathhouse in, for example, King's Landing looks like? With many small tubs, like in most of medieval Europe, or with one or more large pools, like in ancient Rome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girl in Winterfell Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 My question is about claims.I see that the general consesus is that the Stark kids have a claim to Winterfell, just like Daenerys has a claim to the Seven Kingdoms.Now, from wat I know, in the past when you lost your castle and territories during wartime because you LOST (Targaryens vs Baratheon, Stark vs Greyjoy) your claim was gone.Now, in the situation where we are how are the Stark kids of any relevance in regards to territories. When people say that Brandon/Rickon/Sansa/whoever is the rightful heir to Winterfell, isn't he forgetting that as of now Winterfell is not Stark territory and it won't be unless it's conquered back?I guess there's something I am missing because tome they have no claim at all unless they gain it back with a fight.I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 @The Girl in Winterfell. You are sort of right, but the majority of the north (I mean the northern lords and the common people) do not accept Joffrey/Tommen as the rightful king. I think they consider themselves occupied rather than part of the Seven Kingdoms. Should one of the Starks actually proclaim himself/herself the rightful Lord/Lady of the north and Winterfell, I really think that the entire north will rise to support the claimant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wightman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 "By right of Conquest" was a widely recognized and honored code at least up until the renaissance period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fryie Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't know whether someone has asked this before, but ...when Arya overhears the conversation between Varys and Illyrio in GoT, why the hell are the two of them speaking the Common Tongue? After all they both grew up across the Narrow Sea and both lived in Pentos for a long time. Moreover, speaking Valyrian would be "safer" even in the event of being overheard. Did GRRM just miss something there or is there a sensible reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't know whether someone has asked this before, but ...when Arya overhears the conversation between Varys and Illyrio in GoT, why the hell are the two of them speaking the Common Tongue? After all they both grew up across the Narrow Sea and both lived in Pentos for a long time. Moreover, speaking Valyrian would be "safer" even in the event of being overheard. Did GRRM just miss something there or is there a sensible reason? well, Arya would have understood Valyrian, as would most nobles in KL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 well, Arya would have understood Valyrian, as would most nobles in KL I don't recall reading that most nobles understand High Valyrian. At the very least, it's doubtful that she would have understood the bastard form of Valyrian that Varys and Illyrio would have spoken (she didn't know any Braavosi at first, and Braavos is the most powerful of the Free Cities). Fryie--as to your original question, the simplest answer is that George didn't think of it, or thought it would be more convenient for the story if they spoke in the Common Tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just a quick question. I'm curious about the Faceless Men and, in particular, the House of Black and White in Braavos. Has it been spelled out anywhere in the narrative that this is, indeed, one of if not the home of the Faceless Men? Or is everyone sort of assuming that it is?The House of Black and White and its servants were called the Faceless Men ONCE by the kindly man explaining things to Arya. Also Jaqen's behavior supports that.What doesnt fit is that in the House of B & W people pray for death - for themselves or someone else. Yet there is discussion, for example by Petyr, about how expensive it is to hire one. Why cant he just go to Braavos and pray ?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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