(ADWD SPOILERS) Reek Chapters

[TippsBlackandWhite]

And one more question...Did Ramsay cut off Theons, uh, you know...His manhood? I couldn't tell if that was the case or not.

Isn't it all but certain that he did? He basically says "he has no"... and stops before he can say it.

As for hard to read, it was a bit tragic but it's not like he didn't bring it on himself.

[Knight of Ashes]

Honestly, those chapters aren't even particularly horrifying, i can think of a lot of books where far worse was done to people.

Yeah, I found Dany with diarrhea much more horrifying to read.

I didn't even know that girls got diarrhea - much less hot girls.:stunned:

[lady crackhead]

Amazing. Theon may not have a cock anymore and we're still talking about his sex life.

You of all people know why that is not amazing ! ;p

Btw, I dont understand the sentiment that i see around the board of, 'Oh Theon doesnt have a dick & his grille is messed up. He should die now.' Is this such a trope in fantasy books that you just expect his character to die? Why? Because he cant be action=oriented any more? So, if a character becomes physically frail the chorus that immediately goes up is, DIE, CRIPPLE! ?

[lady crackhead]

but it's not like he didn't bring it on himself.

Who the ...what?? Who brings having their penis sheared off on themselves?!

Last time I checked, NO ONE cut off penises as punishment for murder & general jerkwaddishness.

[Knight of Ashes]

You of all people know why that is not amazing ! ;p

Btw, I dont understand the sentiment that i see around the board of, 'Oh Theon doesnt have a dick & his grille is messed up. He should die now.' Is this such a trope in fantasy books that you just expect his character to die? Why? Because he cant be action=oriented any more? So, if a character becomes physically frail the chorus that immediately goes up is, DIE, CRIPPLE! ?

I don't really see any better end for him but that's just me. If you can picture him living a life of sorts on the Iron Islands or some such, well good for you.

And you of all people should know my views have little to do with him being a cripple or castrated but rather, from a narrative sense, what more can be done with him? I just think his remembering who he is does for a good end.

[Selmy]

Amazing. Theon may not have a cock anymore and we're still talking about his sex life.

Who wouldn't want to be the with the guy? He's missing a bunch of fingers and toes, he's gaunt and thin with brittle white hair. Half his teeth have been removed and the half that remain are broken shards.

SEXAY!!

[TippsBlackandWhite]

Who the ...what?? Who brings having their penis sheared off on themselves?!

Last time I checked, NO ONE cut off penises as punishment for murder & general jerkwaddishness.

In this case Theon. It's not like he knew he'd end up there or what would happen to him, but he had so many chances to avoid it that I found it hard to feel completely sorry for the guy.

[Davvy]

...And one more question...Did Ramsay cut off Theons, uh, you know...His manhood? I couldn't tell if that was the case or not.

I believe Theon did get gelded by Ramsay, from several half-veiled thoughts we got from him during his POVs.

His chapters were indeed hard to read, but I discovered that they were the most captivating, not just because of the progressive revelations of his tortures at Ramsay's hands, but also because of all the ensuing action at Winterfell. In fact, I'd have to say I liked reading Theon's chapters most, then the Tyrion POVs next. At the bottom of my list would be the chapters dealing with Meereen and Daenerys, where I did a lot of skipping forward.

One item I am unclear on: where is it specifically revealed that Manderly made the pies with Frey body parts? I know that Manderly actually had to sample those pies before Roose Bolton would eat them. How did he manage to eat the pies, and make a big show of savoring them, if indeed they contained Frey flesh? Yechhh... :(

[lady crackhead]

I don't really see any better end for him but that's just me. If you can picture him living a life of sorts on the Iron Islands or some such, well good for you.

And you of all people should know my views have little to do with him being a cripple or castrated but rather, from a narrative sense, what more can be done with him? I just think his remembering who he is does for a good end.

First, I promoted your quote by mistake. Not that it wasnt a good post. BUt i dont want you to get a big head.

Second, That doesnt sound like a good place to end. He goes through hell, finds himself ..& his sister, only to croak? Gyp! He could have loads more in him. Others have mentioned that he can be brought back to health, hes only 20, with good nutrition, he certainly is getting his brain back together at a quick pace. Pull the teeth, get some basalt dentures. How sweet would that look!

I do want to see him 1)loved up by his sister, 2) love his sister, 3) get into a bitchfight with Jon Snow, 5) go back to Pyke & become king, with Asha as his righthand man, & 6) just generally be the loveable dick he is.

[jons nissa]

Martin took it too far; he should be embarrassed at how he sold out one of his best written characters for some cheap fanboy applause. His writing was overindulgent & sly, too. Repetitious about some forms of pain Theon experienced, but after strongly hinting that Theon's penis was flayed to the point where he begged for it to be cut off, ...he never once in the whole book has pain that emanates from the groin area. Some things dont make rational sense, like a man who was starved (& ate a live rat ..after only 3 days?) would turn away steak instead of mincing it & swallowing it. Or a man with shattered teeth would slurp mashed pea soup-age...which would stick to every exposed nerve in his broken grill & hurt like the bayjaybus.

hmmmm. i hadn't thought of that as i was reading. i was trying not to get sick at the thought of eating a live rat. but you make excellent points. how could he eat that rat and not a cooked steak?

i found the reek chapters riveting - i couldn't stop reading the horrors he was experiencing. i'm no fan of horror/torture and really no fan of theon's but still, i wanted him to escape. no one should experience flaying. what can i say, i'm a wuss.

that said, i didn't feel too compassionate for him. yes, he was a hostage for half his life, but he was treated well by the starks and clearly felt more like them than the iron born. but from the minute he gets on the boat to the pyke, his thoughts are filled of how he would be the prince. and once he realized how much his family despised what he had become, he seems to have had a bit of an identity crisis. sorry, but that's not enough to excuse his actions against the starks, in my eyes.

but i do like where his story is going now. being in winterfell seems to have reminded him of who he is and what he learned from the starks. i don't see him having a happy ending but i do see redemption for him.

[Knight of Ashes]

First, I promoted your quote by mistake. Not that it wasnt a good post. BUt i dont want you to get a big head.

Second, That doesnt sound like a good place to end. He goes through hell, finds himself ..& his sister, only to croak? Gyp! He could have loads more in him. Others have mentioned that he can be brought back to health, hes only 20, with good nutrition, he certainly is getting his brain back together at a quick pace. Pull the teeth, get some basalt dentures. How sweet would that look!

I do want to see him 1)loved up by his sister, 2) love his sister, 3) get into a bitchfight with Jon Snow, 5) go back to Pyke & become king, with Asha as his righthand man, & 6) just generally be the loveable dick he is.

Hrrmmmmmrrrr...and here I thought the books were getting bloated enough as it is.

[lady crackhead]

In this case Theon. It's not like he knew he'd end up there or what would happen to him, but he had so many chances to avoid it that I found it hard to feel completely sorry for the guy.

No one who does anything great does it halfway or accomplishes it by doubting themselves.

In his case, he could've thrown in the towel & left with Asha when she asked him to. But by that time, he had allowed murders to happen to save his position, I can imagine that the fact not only upped the risk he was willing to take, but also gave him a bit of a suicidal edge; he felt guilt over what he allowed to happen. He immediately is regretful after Asha leaves. He knows it's suicidal to stay. Even with certain death almost on him, he allows his men the choice to leave & escape death. Theon from that point is taking a gamble, but he's also clear eyed enough to know that he has let things go too far to be redeemed at the end of his story & that his stand, while brave, is doomed.

You still cant empathize. Fine. But acknowledge that you were never in his place, you were never a hostage with youre life on the line evey day of your life, ripped from your family, existing from the age of 9 in a strangers house, headed by the stranger who killed your brothers & might kill you one day. That you have a chance to go back to your real family & they mock & despise you... its easier said than done. Theon is an asshole, but it isnt like he snt deserving of some amount of sympathy.

And all of this is filler to the reply, NO one deserves to get their dick chopped off.

Who wouldn't want to be the with the guy? He's missing a bunch of fingers and toes, he's gaunt and thin with brittle white hair. Half his teeth have been removed and the half that remain are broken shards.

He's got enough fingers.

[memmorio]

The way I see it, if it bothers you because you care about the character then it's good writing. I liked the chapters. Brilliant profiling by the author.

[Guest]

Who wouldn't want to be the with the guy? He's missing a bunch of fingers and toes, he's gaunt and thin with brittle white hair. Half his teeth have been removed and the half that remain are broken shards.

SEXAY!!

I still think he's sexy.. :wub:

[TippsBlackandWhite]

No one who does anything great does it halfway or accomplishes it by doubting themselves.

In his case, he could've thrown in the towel & left with Asha when she asked him to. But by that time, he had allowed murders to happen to save his position, I can imagine that the fact not only upped the risk he was willing to take, but also gave him a bit of a suicidal edge; he felt guilt over what he allowed to happen. He immediately is regretful after Asha leaves. He knows it's suicidal to stay. Even with certain death almost on him, he allows his men the choice to leave & escape death. Theon from that point is taking a gamble, but he's also clear eyed enough to know that he has let things go too far to be redeemed at the end of his story & that his stand, while brave, is doomed.

He messed up in more ways than one. For instance, not thoroughly planning out the take of the castle, letting the kids escape, and putting way too much trust in Reek and not in his own men.

You still cant empathize. Fine. But acknowledge that you were never in his place, you were never a hostage with youre life on the line evey day of your life, ripped from your family, existing from the age of 9 in a strangers house, headed by the stranger who killed your brothers & might kill you one day. That you have a chance to go back to your real family & they mock & despise you... its easier said than done. Theon is an asshole, but it isnt like he snt deserving of some amount of sympathy.

Completely irrelevant. I have empathy for tons of people and their situations they're in, ones that are in every way so far from my own. By the way, I said completely sorry, not that I didn't have any sympathy for him at all.

[Guest]

The way I see it, if it bothers you because you care about the character then it's good writing. I liked the chapters. Brilliant profiling by the author.

I agree 100%. I found the chapters so painful because I care about the character so much. But I do think they were the most well written of the book. I liked the way the chaper titles changed as he gets stronger too.... :)

[Angalin]

<mod gloves>

Advocating rape or genital mutilation is offlimits. Keep the discussion to what may or may not have happened to a character.

</mod gloves>

[Shrub Knight]

Probably the most fascinating aspect of the Reek/Theon chapters was the thought: what if it was me? Would I buckle under the treament he received in the same way? It colored all my reactions to the story as told from his point of view. I really enjoyed the Reek/Theon chapters in a way I didn't enjoy the rest of aDwD - the character grabbed me more thoroughly than any of the others in this book.

[Mark Antony]

I agree 100%. I found the chapters so painful because I care about the character so much. But I do think they were the most well written of the book. I liked the way the chaper titles changed as he gets stronger too.... :)

yes i loved how the Chapter Titles Changed. Same with Quentyns

[Lord Godric]

Like others have said, while what happened to Theon was tragic and horrible to read about, I was addicted to his chapters because I found the politics and action in the North the best part of the book. Reek, Davos, Jon, and Bran were the best parts of the book for me. And I looked forward to seeing what was happening in Reek's next chapter.