College Football 2011

[SerFelixCulpa]

Hey all,

Not really sure how many (if any) might be Crimson Tide fans here, but to the extent anyone is, I'd love it if you identified yourselves and maybe talked about what you think is coming up this season.

Kent State this Saturday, September 3, 2011!

[BLU-RAY]

Heh, this might go over better in the college football thread, I don't think there are more than one or two 'Bama fans on the board.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Heh, this might go over better in the college football thread, I don't think there are more than one or two 'Bama fans on the board.

Maybe so, but I can hope. If nothing much comes of it I'd have no objection to moving it or abandoning it altogether.

Do you happen to be one of them? ;)

[SerFelixCulpa]

Yeah, this should probably be moved into the other thread.

One of the biggest predictors of success in college football is experience at QB. Of course, it's not a rule. Sometimes first-year starters do well (Cam Newton?) but the fact that McElroy is gone yet people have them as high as #1 or #2 is scary.

I feel like Saban is the new Carrol.

See, I tend to think this is mixing correlation with causation: I think teams with outstanding quarterbacks are much more likely to be teams with outstanding players at all positions, or at least teams that are more likely to be made of quality material through and through. I also think McElroy was not all that great...certainly a good QB but not a true standout player. To the extent he was a good QB, I think it's in large part due to having had a fantastic squad around him and Saban coaching. Yes I am a Saban partisan: I think he's hands down the best coach in the college game today, on track to go down as one of the all-time greats.

/I have no objection to this being moved into a more general discussion if everyone thinks that's appropriate. Can someone provide a link to where they think the best place is?

[BLU-RAY]

Not a Tide fan, sorry :)

Here's the current iteration of the college football thread:

Interestingly, the second-to-last post is from another Alabama fan looking for like minded posters! So, you're not alone.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Any fellow Bammers here in Westeros?

Yo. Started a thread for Bammers actually just a little while ago, though the consensus seems to be there aren't enough Bama fans to sustain a thread all by ourselves. Anyway, Roll Tide. :)

[Kalbear]

To be fair, I don't think LSU's defense is impregnable. Tennessee came within a hair of beating them, and Tennessee was not the value of Oregon last year. For better or worse they play to their competition. When LSU is good they can play with anyone (see: Alabama, Auburn). When they're bad, they look stupid as hell.

That being said, the easiest way to make Oregon look bad is to stop their quick runs and their read. They don't have the polished passing attack they did last year and they will be needing their run to do better to take up some of that slack - and I'm not sure they can. But we'll see. Should be an interesting game, in any case.

[Rhom]

I find it interesting that we tend to define a team by last year's version so much in the college football thread. Yes, there are significant returnees... but hasn't history shown us that often teams are entirely different from one year to the next? I fully expect LSU to be solid on defense, but its not like they're rolling out the same 11 starters and the same regular back-ups.

Any discussion on our propensity to do this? Is it because otherwise we would have nothing to talk about?

Yo. Started a thread for Bammers actually just a little while ago, though the consensus seems to be there aren't enough Bama fans to sustain a thread all by ourselves. Anyway, Roll Tide. :)

I have my very own thread for talking Kentucky basketball... I just disguise it as the College Basketball thread! :lol:

[SerFelixCulpa]

I have my very own thread for talking Kentucky basketball... I just disguise it as the College Basketball thread! :lol:

Clever. Glad I found the Bama football thread...err, College Football 2011! ;)

[Kalbear]

I find it interesting that we tend to define a team by last year's version so much in the college football thread. Yes, there are significant returnees... but hasn't history shown us that often teams are entirely different from one year to the next? I fully expect LSU to be solid on defense, but its not like they're rolling out the same 11 starters and the same regular back-ups.

Actually, no. One of the best indicators on the strength of a team is their coaching stability + the number of returning starters. That's not always the case (example: Oregon did BETTER last year with a new starting QB) but it is often the case more than not.

Now, where this seems wierd is that teams play 12 games, and only a few are meaningful. So 1-hit wonders (or one-game wonders) don't necessarily perform well the next year, and one game can really change a season.

LSU teams for the last 8 years have been known for strong defense, odd special teams, crazy coaching and winning. Oregon teams under Kelly (both as ocoord and as coach) have been characterized by a strong running game, a fast pace, defense that is opportunistic but will give up yards and explosive plays - along with doing less than well outside of Autzen. There's no reason to think that these trends are going to change significantly.

The success per season of a team comes largely down to luck and to schedule. The character of a team is largely due to the coach.

[SerFelixCulpa]

I think that's sort of an age-old question with football. Is the QB that good or is he just in a great situation that makes him look that good? I think it's hard to answer on its own merits and it's also hard to answer because it's often some of both. I think it's very possible that Matt Leinart was very overrated on those USC teams.

I agree with you about Saban at least insofar as that he's on the short list of best coaches. He got Alabama back to greatness in no time at all, and he's already won titles at Alabama and LSU. I really wish we could see that national title game without Colt McCoy getting hurt. I think Alabama probably would have still won, but who knows.

But Saban is one of those guys (like Carroll) who is very good at every aspect of the job. He's a good X's and O's guy. He's can recruit. He can inspire and get players amped, and he is good with the other administrative crap that comes with being a head coach these days (dealing w/ boosters, etc..). He is one of those guys that could have excelled in business or some other profession but chose coaching football.

I too would have liked to see the Texas game go with McCoy in for all four quarters...if for no other reason than it gave the Auburn fans in my office an easy way to claim we didn't "really" win the championship. ;)

QBs are flashy, and when they are good (and even when they're not so good but manage to pull off a good play) it's immediately noticeable. A good RB or WR can make a QB look much better than they are (and often manages to look good themselves in the process). Much harder to notice good defensive lineman, and so forth. I doubt there's an answer to this question as such. One suspects some QBs are just that good: I suspect just as many are ok and are working with an all-around good squad. But by extension, I suspect there are a few QBs who are underrated precisely because they don't have good teams around them. I'm leery of giving too much credit/blame to the QB in any situation.

Though I admit I crowed sweet, sweet victory when we made Tebow cry in the SEC Championship game. ;)

[Matt O'Sevens]

Yo. Started a thread for Bammers actually just a little while ago, though the consensus seems to be there aren't enough Bama fans to sustain a thread all by ourselves. Anyway, Roll Tide. :)

Well it's a relief to know I'm not the only one on this forum

SerFelix- It's always nice to meet a fellow Tide fan. You live in AL or are you a Bama fan abroad?

[Gold Storm]

Here is a strange story about Arizona State's new pitchfork logo.

There is this Hispanic gang in Chicago called Satan's Disciples and there is a fear that they will adopt the logo.

"The gangs adopt sports teams and wear their gear," Epich said. "The S.D.'s are going to adopt the (ASU) hat as their hat of choice just as soon as they see the first person wearing one."

He probably has reason to worry. After all, there's the devil tie-in. Sun Devils and Satan's Disciples both start with an S and a D.

And, of most concern to Epich, there's that trident.

Turns out the gang uses a trident similar to ASU's as one of its symbols. Gang members have them tattooed on their bodies and tag neighborhoods with them. Epich believes some of the artwork he has seen of the gang's symbol is strikingly similar to the ASU trident.

The folks at ASU disagree. You might say the Devil is in the details.

Steve Hank, associate athletic director, revenue generation at ASU who spoke by phone with Epich about his concerns, said the Nike trident for ASU and the street art produced by Satan's Disciples members "are not even close."

It's also true that the old "Sparky" logo carried a trident and gangs didn't adopt him. Of course, a Disney-inspired cartoon probably isn't going to get you much street credit.

"The one thing we can tell you is we vigilantly defend our marks," said Hank, who also happens to be from Chicago.

"If they were to use it in that way, we would take all legal action to protect our mark."

Trouble is, there isn't much ASU or any other pro or college team can do to prevent a gang from adopting its gear

To add to the story, ASU is playing at Illinois this year and the new logo will get around. I also love the fact that they are going to protect their "brand". What are they going to do, sue the gang for copyright infringement?

[Maithanet]

To add to the story, ASU is playing at Illinois this year and the new logo will get around. I also love the fact that they are going to protect their "brand". What are they going to do, sue the gang for copyright infringement?

Yeah, good luck with that.

I have trouble seeing what the big deal is. Obviously, gangs and gang violence is a problem, but who really cares what gear the gangs are/are not wearing? Is ASU really so worried about how their brand is misused? Chicago isn't anywhere near ASU, it's not like this is fertile recruiting ground.

If a gang in Baltimore starts wearing USC gear, is it the obligation of the Trojans to change their mascot to something less appealing?

[NW Deserter]

I don't have anything to add to the discussions going except

WOOO COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS BACK TOMORROW!

And on a more specific note... BTHO SMU on Sunday! A whoop!

You may now continue with your objective analyses.

[Ken Stone]

Here is a strange story about Arizona State's new pitchfork logo.

There is this Hispanic gang in Chicago called Satan's Disciples and there is a fear that they will adopt the logo.

To add to the story, ASU is playing at Illinois this year and the new logo will get around. I also love the fact that they are going to protect their "brand". What are they going to do, sue the gang for copyright infringement?

I remember in the mid 90's Nebraska was playing a dominate level of football and also had that nice deep red color that the bloods loved so much. Not sure how appropriate this is, but I always felt a great sense of pride when some gang-banger got busted in Cali wearing a Nebraska hat.

[Rhom]

I remember in the mid 90's Nebraska was playing a dominate level of football and also had that nice deep red color that the bloods loved so much. Not sure how appropriate this is, but I always felt a great sense of pride when some gang-banger got busted in Cali wearing a Nebraska hat.

:lol:

[S John]

Yeah, good luck with that.

I have trouble seeing what the big deal is. Obviously, gangs and gang violence is a problem, but who really cares what gear the gangs are/are not wearing? Is ASU really so worried about how their brand is misused? Chicago isn't anywhere near ASU, it's not like this is fertile recruiting ground.

If a gang in Baltimore starts wearing USC gear, is it the obligation of the Trojans to change their mascot to something less appealing?

I agree - why do they give a shit? They know that their logo is a representation of the Arizona State University Sun Devil's. That is what it means. If someone else takes that and gives it new meaning for a small group of people, how is that in any way the responsibility of ASU? The groups are not affiliated. Dumb.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Well it's a relief to know I'm not the only one on this forum

SerFelix- It's always nice to meet a fellow Tide fan. You live in AL or are you a Bama fan abroad?

I live in Alabama (Mobile) and am a graduate of said University. Whereabouts are you?

[SerFelixCulpa]

The sweet taste of schadenfreude was savored all across the nation that day.

Heh, I kind of imagine it as being like the situation where the defeated and humbled Jaime Lannister was brought in front of Robb Stark after the Whispering Wood...but, you know, with Jaime Lannister crying like a little girl. ;)

(No, I do not want to take the analysis any further down the road. This is a one-off imaginative fantasy, and I do NOT mean to imply anything that happens either to Robb or Jaime is precedent for what happens to Bama or anyone else. There will be no "Crimson Wedding.")