NFL Regular Season

[Space Bandito]

I don't know how you can call him a "bust" he's been to the last 2 pro-bowls... And I think they cut him because they have Emmanuel Sanders and Patrick Chung, anyway.

Who is Emmanuel Sanders? Is he pretty good? *Triple checks the Patriot roster to make sure* Googles Emmanual Sanders... hmm Nice, the Pats have a Wr, from the Pittsburgh Steelers playing safety now? I can see why they cut Meriweather. :drunk:

I know this isn't your big thing Siven. But Pats fans appreciate more than Meriweathers random hits on defeneless TE's and WR after 15yrd receptions. Here is an interesting explanation: Stats analysis on Meriweathers Decline

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston Chirs Forsberg - Stats analysis on Meriweather's decline- There were more than a few groans when Brandon Meriweather earned his second consecutive spot on the AFC Pro Bowl roster last season. While his 2009 campaign surely warranted All-Star consideration, a reduced role and on-field struggles in 2010 likely did not.

In fact, Meriweather's decline last season might have ultimately sealed his fate Saturday when he was released by the New England Patriots as part of the team's final roster cutdown.

On the surface, Meriweather's numbers weren't awful. He finished with 48 tackles, three interceptions, and six passes defended. But dig deeper and the drop-off in production is far more pronounced. The folks at Pro Football Focus track individual player data and their numbers on Meriweather are far more condemning. For instance, during Meriweather's 2009 season, opposing quarterbacks boasted a QB rating of 64.7 on passes throw in his direction; In 2010, that number skyrocketed to 100.7. Here's a comparison of the past three years for Meriweather with PFF numbers (including playoff games) that highlight the Pro Bowl-caliber 2009 season and last year's dip :

[Sivin]

Who is Emmanuel Sanders? Is he pretty good? *Triple checks the Patriot roster to make sure* Googles Emmanual Sanders... hmm Nice, the Pats have a Wr, from the Pittsburgh Steelers playing safety now? I can see why they cut Meriweather. :drunk:

I know this isn't your big thing Siven. But Pats fans appreciate more than Meriweathers random hits on defeneless TE's and WR after 15yrd receptions. Here is an interesting explanation: Stats analysis on Meriweathers Decline

Ha! I can't believe I put Emmanual ! <Facepalm> But they do have a decent safety in James Sanders.

And it's Richard Seymor in Oakland.

[Space Bandito]

Ha! I can't believe I put Emmanual ! <Facepalm> But they do have a decent safety in James Sanders.

You mean James Sanders, now with the Atlanta Falcons? :laugh: And Richard Seymour is indeed missed. But he was traded. Whether that was a successful trade is an actual decent question. A lot of fans do however like to think that Belichick knows a thing or two when he cuts a player.

[Sivin]

You mean James Sanders, now with the Atlanta Falcons? :laugh: And Richard Seymour is indeed missed. But he was traded. Whether that was a successful trade is an actual decent question. A lot of fans do however like to think that Belichick knows a thing or two when he cuts a player.

When the hell did James Sanders leave? I completely missed that!

I'm doing a lot of facepalming in this thread. Must be that pot I smoked earlier. :)

And I'm not trying to second-guess Belichecks ability to know when to kick guys out, I'm just hoping that Meriweather will go the way of Seymore.

[Kalbear]

Reports are that Peyton Manning will need another neck surgery and will be out indefinitely. it's not absolutely confirmed, but it is coming from at least legitimate sources.

[Commodore]

AdamSchefter Adam Schefter

Filed to ESPN from @mortreport: Peyton Manning is being revaluated by several doctors bc of slow progress. No other procedure planned now.

What if Manning is out for the season, Colts tank, then draft Andrew Luck to learn under Peyton.

[Rockroi]

So, as far as Merriweather, here is my take: he was a vastly overrated player; his pro-Bowls were in name only. He had reached his max potential (translation: he's an iffy player in a good system); he seemed to make up for his lack of speed with a lack of coverage ability. He never made the big play, and he seemed to lead the league in "get's-to-the-player-2-seconds-after-that-player-made-the-huge-catch." And he was, by far, the Patriots most experienced, most athletic safety. By far. Hence, we now get to rely on Ross Ventrone and Sergio Brown. Let that sink in for a moment, Pats fans. Sergio. Brown.

That's my problem here- its not so much that another team improves, but that Pats get demonstrably worse. I could be wrong here, But the Pats made another, HUGE, statement: we don't tolerate guys who are merely okay and we have a load of faith in Patrick Chung. And Sergio Brown (God help us).

My prediction: see a lot of plays where a DB seems to get burned only to realize that it was because he thought he had Safety help and that safety was ... somewhere else.

As far as Pats cast offs and sell-offs... Richard Seymore has played well; their former Center had a decent ex-Pats career. Lawyer Malloy AND Ty Law both had serviceable ex-Pats seasons (IIRC, both made it to at least one pro-bowl after the Pats). Matt Cassell had one really good season so far. Other than that its very, very iffy.

And it sucks about Peyton Manning. Really. Why, God, WHY! could that not have been Ben Rothlesberger?

[awesome possum]

I know this isn't your big thing Siven. But Pats fans appreciate more than Meriweathers random hits on defeneless TE's and WR after 15yrd receptions. Here is an interesting explanation: Stats analysis on Meriweathers Decline

One of my friends manages to be both a Bears fan and a glass half full kind of guy. At all times. His take on Meriweather's noted decline is that after his first pro-bowl season Belichick changed/tweaked the defensive scheme a little bit, which in turn made him less effective. Something about how they started running more man coverage and he was terrible at it.

I don't know the truth of that, but I figure you or Rock might.

Not sure why Bears fans should be excited to have him, especially when the tampa 2 is so focused on good safety play.

I think it just goes to show how concerned we are about the safety depth. Whatever his flaws he's almost certainly better than Craig Steltz and Chris Conte, maybe even Major Wright.

It's actually a really good signing. It adds much needed depth at a critical position and its just a one-year deal so if he doesn't work out he's gone. If he does work out, even better.

Reports are that Peyton Manning will need another neck surgery and will be out indefinitely. it's not absolutely confirmed, but it is coming from at least legitimate sources.

I really hope that's not true.

[Jaime L]

If nothing else, the Peyton Manning injury really calls into question the generally accepted notion that the Colts are a model organization. Outside of lucking into having the #1 overall pick the year Peyton came out, what have they done to really distinguish themselves? They've had some nice picks like Freeney, Saturday, Wayne and Clark, but just about all were made close to a decade ago and all teams are able to get a few impact guys. I'm not even convinced Collie or Garcon are all that special - I just think Peyton makes them that way. Really Peyton glosses over all their shortcomings - the fact they can't run the ball or stop the run and haven't been able to for years. The fact they haven't drafted an impact guy since 2005 and have had some bad whiffs like Donald Brown and Tony Ugoh or have never found a backup QB better than Jim Sorgi in all this time seems to indicate Bill Polian has lost his fastball.

If this is a 4-12 team without Manning this isn't a model organization. It's an average one that's been living off it's good fortune from 13 years ago. Actually after reading Jim Irsay's 12-year-old-girl tweets:

“There was the Rams-K Warner Sup year./ There was Patriot 2001-Brady Sup.year.— Every year. is interesting n unpredictable in NFL!!!!” Irsay wrote.

I'm changing my answer to a below average organization.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Sexy Rexy is the week 1 starter for the Redskins. It's time to unleash the dragon!

[Kalbear]

If nothing else, the Peyton Manning injury really calls into question the generally accepted notion that the Colts are a model organization. Outside of lucking into having the #1 overall pick the year Peyton came out, what have they done to really distinguish themselves? They've had some nice picks like Freeney, Saturday, Wayne and Clark, but just about all were made close to a decade ago and all teams are able to get a few impact guys.

They've had reasonable success at running back, wide receiver and tight end. They've been very good with their line picks (Saturday was a very late round pick IIRC). But the most notable thing they've been good at is identifying cheap defensive players through the draft and plugging them in as needed, having tons of turnover, while keeping a few key players. Given the inequity of money on their defense/offense, it's amazing how much they've done with how little.

The fact is that any team that has managed to get 12 wins in 7 straight seasons and make the playoffs in 9 straight seasons is a model organization, Peyton Manning or no. While the Pats are likely better in that regard (and have at the very least developed competent backup QB play) the Colts have had very good depth on their offensive line, their defense, and their skill players. Their skill players in particular have not been busts, which is saying something - having Wayne, Clark, Addai as picks is a pretty good resume and I'd be shocked to find any team in the last 10 years hitting on as many 1st round picks as they have, particularly on offense.

[trickster]

... having Wayne, Clark, Addai as picks is a pretty good resume and I'd be shocked to find any team in the last 10 years hitting on as many 1st round picks as they have, particularly on offense.

Seriously, Addai? He has been somewhat of a disappointment. Also MJD was still available.

[Rockroi]

They've had reasonable success at running back, wide receiver and tight end. They've been very good with their line picks (Saturday was a very late round pick IIRC). But the most notable thing they've been good at is identifying cheap defensive players through the draft and plugging them in as needed, having tons of turnover, while keeping a few key players. Given the inequity of money on their defense/offense, it's amazing how much they've done with how little.

I guess. Frankly, the only running back that ever panned out for them was Addai and he was only effective for 2 years (clearly better than the Pats choice, 7-11 employee Lawrence Maroney). Both Saturday (he was undrafted btw- Colts picked him up when Baltimore cut him) and Wayne came to the Colts a long time ago- Wayne 2000 and Saturday pre-dates Manning IIRC. Clark was drafted in 2003. That does not make them bad picks at all; just means the Colts have not really drafted anyone of note in ... in a long time.

However, I really have to question- as I did before - the Colts' master game-plan when it came to life without Manning (he ages just like other mere mortals). The fact that he had not missed a game to this point was good luck, not a glorious indicator of things to come. The Colts have not developed an even serviceable QB in the Manning years. This is in stark contrast to other "model" organizations. The Packers developed Matt Hassellbeck (SB starter) and Aaron Rodgers (you may have heard of him) in the halcyon days of Brett Favre; The 49'ers developed Steve Young, Steve Bono and Jeff Garcia AFTER Joe Montana (and in Garcia's case, after Young); the Pats have obviously had SOME success in Cassel (starter in KC). But the argument is not even that the Colts have failed to develop a "stellar" QB; they have not even developed a mediocre QB- a rather important position -should Manning go down. NONE of the QBs the Colts have are even PASSABLE in the NFL; so bad, they had to go get Kerry Collins and pay him $4 Million. This is a really, REALLY bad plan.

And its not hind sight. Players get hurt, they age, they get injuries to their neck that do not heal properly and make fan-bases slit their wrists. Its an average issue in the NFL. How do you not see that coming?

I just look at the Colts and I see Peyton Manning (few argue otherwise). I absolutely say that he has had terrific WR talent brought in for his assistance etc. But are we really going to say that the Colts are- irrespective of Manning -a great organization? I just don't see it. Its not like Brady and the Pats where you have both tools- the amazing QB and the fine-tuned organization- that complement each other and it shows in a variety of various transactions. Obviously, both organizations have made mistakes; but its not about misjudging talent or trading for a pick when you should have held pat. Its about bot seeing an obvious issue coming at you and ignoring it for years.

Put another way: the Patriots could very well be the "Tom Brady" of football organizations; I do not believe that the Colts are the "Peyton Manning" of football organizations.

[Jaxom 1974]

I'd've killed to have had a QB start like Manning did for all of those years, regardless of a back up being groomed, here in Chicago. Instead, until Cutler, we've not been able to get a frontline QB going, let alone a backup in 20 years...and Chicago didn't exactly groom Cutler either...

[trickster]

Here's the thing about Indy, Manning has always been there to plaster over a lot of their mistakes. Donald Brown FFS. How about the zombie coach?

I know the colts always had good WRs, but why would they not draft or trade for a stud RB? Why should not they go all in? They are always like we have the team we are happy with, we just need a few tweaks. Everybody else is (e.g. pats, ravens, eagles) making big moves. I am hoping that if the Colts miss the playoffs this year, they draft a RB in the first round or trade for somebody and try to win another superbowl in the next couple of years.

ETA: also I am sick of hearing how the Colt's defense is designed to play with the lead as the offense jumps out to big leads. Why is then Peyton the master of 4th quarter comebacks?

[Jaime L]

The fact is that any team that has managed to get 12 wins in 7 straight seasons and make the playoffs in 9 straight seasons is a model organization, Peyton Manning or no. While the Pats are likely better in that regard (and have at the very least developed competent backup QB play) the Colts have had very good depth on their offensive line, their defense, and their skill players. Their skill players in particular have not been busts, which is saying something - having Wayne, Clark, Addai as picks is a pretty good resume and I'd be shocked to find any team in the last 10 years hitting on as many 1st round picks as they have, particularly on offense.

You can't separate Wayne, Clark or Addai away from the boost each of them gets by playing with Peyton Manning their whole career and not, say, Rex Grossman. Carry the analogy further, I'm not at all sure Santana Moss doesn't put up season after season of Wayne like numbers if he has Peyton throwing him the football. I agree Wayne and Clark are good first rounders but to say they're demonstrably better than first rounders drafted by other teams I think is clearly false. Heck, just as an example the Cowboys drafted guys like Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Jay Ratliff, DeMarcus Ware, guys which from a pure performance are probably about as good as anyone the Colts have drafted in the 2000's but as a franchise as a whole they've been as up and down as anyone. Yet they very likely would be winning 12 games every season with Peyton under center because he makes everyone better. He makes the skill position guys better and he saves a defense that hasn't been good for about 5 years now and was even horrible in the Superbowl season except for a miracle turnaround in the playoffs.

Also every guy you named was drafted a half a decade ago. Drafting is all about replenishing your talent level and the Colts have not done that. They're coasting off the core they built when they were a model franchise in the first half of the decade. Peyton Manning affords a margin of error other teams simply don't have when it comes to failing in the draft for an extended period of time. I'd argue there's even a material difference in how Peyton Manning helps a team over how, say, a Phillip Rivers helps a team. I'd agree the Colts had a long run of being a model franchise, even removed from the Peyton Manning effect, but I haven't seen in at least 5 years, an eternity in the NFL, so I'm ready to call it over. Maybe the Colts will prove me wrong this season, but I really believe this is as close to a one man team as is possible in the NFL. Still hope it doesn't come to that - some vintage Peyton coming back from this injury and 10 wins would be about as impressive as you get.

[Lightning Lord]

Cedric Benson released after 5 days

Yay! Professional athletes continue to get special treatment! Do a lot of people that plead no contest to two assault charges serve only 5 days?

Obviously Benson has a very good lawyer.

[Mack Kilimaro]

The NFL, the most entertaining product going these days, is now officially more entertaining. Thank the Gods.

Just remember one of Sexy Rexy's rules: two in the pink and one in Afghanistan.

[trickster]

Continuing my rant against the Colt's management, consider this. They haven't been able to find a replacement for Tarik Glenn at the left tackle since 2006.

[Kalbear]

I agree Wayne and Clark are good first rounders but to say they're demonstrably better than first rounders drafted by other teams I think is clearly false.

I think they're better than most offensive players that other teams have drafted in the first round. Take Wayne, Clark and Addai - and yes, Addai has been somewhat disappointing but mostly because of injury, not because of talent. What other team in the last 10 years has had three good first-round successes at offense? Not the Pats. Not the Steelers. Not the Jets. Not the Packers.

Now yes, the Manning effect does help them a lot - but they are also very talented players in their own right. Particularly Wayne. And Manning very obviously missed Clark when he was gone last season.

They haven't done as well drafting offensive linemen - Ugoh was a big miss though he was in the second round. Gonzalez has been hurt too often and is likely done. Brown is too early to tell but that Addai is starting isn't a great sign. But those three alone make them better than a lot of other teams at drafting.

Also, check out their history. There are a ton of players on there who are either playing for the Colts currently or are playing for the teams after going free agent - even currently. I don't know the absolute numbers but that was my most impressed evaluation - their ability to find people in the draft and pay them cheap while getting some production.

Not having a backup ready to go for Manning - especially this year - was a huge mistake. I had always thought Sorgi was being groomed for it but nevertheless, big mistake. Perhaps their plan is simple: when Manning is gone, they'll lose so many games they'll be able to draft a stud QB and start the cycle over again. It's still a problem for them, especially this year, but saying 'if they didn't have Manning they'd be screwed' is kinda silly, because they did have Manning.

Another way to put it: the Packers didn't have a good backup QB behind Favre until Favre was 37. And even then, Rodgers did not look good until well after Favre was gone; when Favre was there he looked injury prone and something of a bust. When you have that kind of QB that appears invulnerable and doesn't miss games or even snaps, it's hard to invest in a QB that does nothing for you most of the time. Put it this way: as an owner, would you rather try to make sure that your team can win now with a proven commodity at QB and one of the best QBs that has ever played the game, or do you try to find a backup to a legendary QB and hurt your chances of winning now? It's a hard question. If you can do both, awesome. But if you can't, which do you choose?