What will become of the Lannister siblings

[Hound's She-wolf]

I looked it up it was Elmar Frey. Walder's youngest son. He was Roose's squire when Arya was in his camp.

Oh, and actually this was in ACoK so technically Walder called off the engagement before the RW.

Anyways, I want Tyrion to see the dragons. I felt bad that he cried when he learned that they died. He seems to be turning into a little fiend so maybe this will cause him to get it together somewhat.

I also felt bad when he found out they died, sounds like me when I found out that no, I really couldn't have a unicorn pegasus for Christmas.

[ARYa_Nym]

I also felt bad when he found out they died, sounds like me when I found out that no, I really couldn't have a unicorn pegasus for Christmas.

IA, it was very childlike.

[Wouter]

Tyrion should take the Second sons and go concentrate on Casterly Rock. Dany needs to head North to help out there. I think Marwyn is the person she really needs to meet.

A surprising number of people seems to see Tyrion's Casterly Rock desire as separate from Dany - but Tyrion won't hope to take and hold CR in a vacuum - he would always need support, or at least tolerance, from whoever holds the throne. Since he was going to Dany anyway (this was always the plan, even when it started back at Illyrio's), and she has the dragons (which he has always dreamed off), he's not going to miss the opportunity to get on board. The Second Sons are a means to get to Dany (and not empty-handed), they're not going to be Tyrion's only means of securing CR! I expect Tyrion will tell her all he knows about Aegon, including his suspicions about his identity (Tyrion clearly picked up a vibe about Illyrio's feelings).

Tyrion is already separate from his family now, I suspect he is going to join Dany's camp with full dedication to make her queen of Westeros - and no doubt with the aim to get CR as a reward for his services. What Tyrion tells or doesn't tell her about the Starks could end up being important, given Dany's lack of good info/unwillingness to listen to anything relating the rebellion and Ned Stark.

[Ser Lepus]

If Tyrion wants to joins Dany, he must learn to keep his smartmouth shut NOW!.

[Hound's She-wolf]

I don't think there's anyway he is NOT going to meet her either, everything has been leading to this. And I too, think he will want CR as a reward, but I'm not above thinking that he will try to double cross her and try to take a dragon if he feels he needs to.

Yes, agree he needs to not be so nasty and sarcastic if he meets her, she doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor and I don't think she'll take to kindly to his cutting wit.

[Wouter]

If Tyrion wants to joins Dany, he must learn to keep his smartmouth shut NOW!.

Arguably, Dany needs a bit of that mouth now - Barristan doesn't always dare tell her where Jorah (probably) and Tyrion (likely) would push on. Dany still doesn't know the full truth of the rebellion, it's getting about time. I'm counting on Tyrion to open his mouth, in this regard. Once he has proven his worth, at least (which I expect he will with one of the dragons).

I'm not counting out he will eventually have a fallout with Dany though, maybe if he has a change of heart over Jaime (he already seems to mellow on him in late ADWD). He could be the 3rd treason, or he could be her designated heir if she remains childless, AFAIK.

[ARYa_Nym]

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

Seems to me like Tyrion is going to be wreaking some havoc.& the lion was one of the people that Quaithe told Dany not to trust.

She will imo and he will betray her. I think he's going to be the betrayal for love, (Jaime). Barriston for Ashara is a possibility but I'm not convinced that she is Lemore.

[Hound's She-wolf]

Dany does need to hear the truth, but is Tyrion going to be able to tell the truth without getting himself scorched?

I think he could be the 3rd betrayal, decide to steal a dragon and take off with his company to take over CR (and I still like him as the twisted DragonLord of Casterly Rock).

[Ser Lepus]

Arguably, Dany needs a bit of that mouth now - Barristan doesn't always dare tell her where Jorah (probably) and Tyrion (likely) would push on. Dany still doesn't know the full truth of the rebellion, it's getting about time. I'm counting on Tyrion to open his mouth, in this regard. Once he has proven his worth, at least (which I expect he will with one of the dragons).

I'm not counting out he will eventually have a fallout with Dany though, maybe if he has a change of heart over Jaime (he already seems to mellow on him in late ADWD). He could be the 3rd treason, or he could be her designated heir if she remains childless, AFAIK.

Dany will accept sincere advice, even if it is unflattering or disagreable, but she won´t accept even one jape; she makes a lot of the respect she deserves as the legitime Dragon Queen, and Tyrion has a stupid inclination to insult, make fun or make inapropiate comments to powerful people he depends on for his survival (his father, Cersei, Catelyn, Lysa Arryn, the Lords of the Vale, Illyrio, Ser Jorah, Aegon, Jon Connington, and the list goes on...)

[Wouter]

I'm confident Tyrion will survive - either he will tone it down after his experiences with Penny, or she won't mind as much as feared.

If Tyrion is to be the 3rd betrayal, I don't expect it until near the end of the books, when thematically you'd expect the final round of prophecy (3rd husband, 3rd slaying of lies, 3rd betrayal) to come about. But it's just as possible that he'll remain loyal to her. Quaithe basically told Dany not to trust anyone, including Quentyn who didn't hold malice towards her (though he did have his agenda and tried to "borrow" a dragon, to be sure). We'll see.

[ARYa_Nym]

I think Quaithe's warning of Quentyn pertained to him trying to steal her dragons.

Marwyn the Mage is going to her for example and she wasn't warned against him. He'll be good for her I think.

[Ser Lepus]

I think Quaithe's warning of Quentyn pertained to him trying to steal her dragons.

Marwyn the Mage is going to her for example and she wasn't warned against him. He'll be good for her I think.

I think they have changed the prophecy to replace Marwyn for Moqorro; something like "the black crow" was replaced for "the dark flame"; I guess GRRM hoped most people wouldn´t notice or care.

[Hound's She-wolf]

I think Quaithe's warning of Quentyn pertained to him trying to steal her dragons.

Marwyn the Mage is going to her for example and she wasn't warned against him. He'll be good for her I think.

Unless Pate the novice/ FM is travelling with him or has already killed him and taken over his persona.

[Wouter]

Unless Pate the novice/ FM is travelling with him or has already killed him and taken over his persona.

The FM stayed behind, with Sam. His goal seems to be within the citadel; possibly it's that fabled book about dragons, mentioned by Tyrion in ADWD "maybe the citadel has one".

[ARYa_Nym]

I think they have changed the prophecy to replace Marwyn for Moqorro; something like "the black crow" was replaced for "the dark flame"; I guess GRRM hoped most people wouldn´t notice or care.

I thought Quaithe warned her in ADWD? Either way she wasn't warned against everyone who is going to her.

[iamthedave]

C'mon, Wouter, Victarion is going to make the party. It would be completely lame if we never see Tyrion and Dany meet, but I would be heartbroken if I didn't get to see Victarion wreak havoc in Mereen and finally annoy Dany to the point where she roasts him.

The dragon queen frees slaves, and so do I. :lmao: On wings of song I come to you, Daenerys.

Yeah, I notice Victarion misses the most important part of his own quote:

The queen frees slaves, and so do I... but I go one step further and burn them afterwards!

Missing the point a bit, Viccy...

You mean Daenerys will tame Victarion, don´t you?.

Nobody can tame a woman with three f*****g dragons.

Daario managed it.

[1234567]

Yeah, I notice Victarion misses the most important part of his own quote:

The queen frees slaves, and so do I... but I go one step further and burn them afterwards!

Ah! A liberator and a deeply religious man to boot!

[Wouter]

Regarding Jaime, he seems to be in a position where he really shouldn't escape alive from, but OTOH the story seems to call for him to be around in some way for some time (maybe UnJaime would do, though).

Let's review what we know:

-he left his camp with Brienne and hasn't been seen for months (or weeks?) by Lannister forces after that

-he hasn't been found as a body, hanged along a road somewhere, either, as you would expect by now

-Brienne obviously chose "sword" in-extremis and Pod is likely held hostage for her good behaviour

-Bottom line: Brienne either should have killed Jaime herself (unlikely, body would have been found by now one would think) or brought him to Stoneheart. Stoneheart usually wants to display the bodies of those executed for crimes, but Jaime wasn't found, dead or alive. It's hard to imagine her not having Jaime killed, because she has very good reasons for killing him. Was he killed, but resurrected (which would shield him against re-killing due to the religious sentiments of "the lord of light isn't finished with him yet")? Has Stoneheart decided to not kill him yet, but use him as a hostage to take Riverrun/free Edmure/free Jeyne/capture other Lannisters? Has he been killed anyway, but somehow buried quietly instead of getting displayed? It seems unlikely Martin would kill him offscreen without further issue.

[iamthedave]

Regarding Jaime, he seems to be in a position where he really shouldn't escape alive from, but OTOH the story seems to call for him to be around in some way for some time (maybe UnJaime would do, though).

Let's review what we know:

-he left his camp with Brienne and hasn't been seen for months (or weeks?) by Lannister forces after that

-he hasn't been found as a body, hanged along a road somewhere, either, as you would expect by now

-Brienne obviously chose "sword" in-extremis and Pod is likely held hostage for her good behaviour

-Bottom line: Brienne either should have killed Jaime herself (unlikely, body would have been found by now one would think) or brought him to Stoneheart. Stoneheart usually wants to display the bodies of those executed for crimes, but Jaime wasn't found, dead or alive. It's hard to imagine her not having Jaime killed, because she has very good reasons for killing him. Was he killed, but resurrected (which would shield him against re-killing due to the religious sentiments of "the lord of light isn't finished with him yet")? Has Stoneheart decided to not kill him yet, but use him as a hostage to take Riverrun/free Edmure/free Jeyne/capture other Lannisters? Has he been killed anyway, but somehow buried quietly instead of getting displayed? It seems unlikely Martin would kill him offscreen without further issue.

There's a point I've made several times in relation to this that bears repeating: Communication in Westeros sucks.

When Davos went to White Harbour nobody even knew Stannis was at the wall, and that's a host of 10,000 men complete with horses.

The idea that Jaime could have escaped with his life and chosen to drop off the radar is hardly impossible, especially with Brienne of Tarth in the mix. He could even be severely injured and recuperating somewhere quietly (maybe even the Quiet Isle with Sandor).

As such I don't consider Jaime not being heard of to mean much. We don't even know that he made it to the Brotherhood. Literally all we know is that he left with Brienne and hasn't popped up since. The obvious INTENTION is to make us think he's dead.

But really... do any of us have that much trust in Martin at this point? Remember when it was reported that Davos Seaworth's head and hands were displayed over White Harbour?

[Ser Lepus]

Daario managed it (to tame Dany).

Victarion doesn´t have neither a gold tooth nor a Harley Davison, and doesn´t even play the guitar in a group...

Dany likes roguish bad boys, not serious straight-faced stick-in-the-butt crude men (I hate both Daario and Victarion, by the way, and dislike Dany´s infatuation with the former...)