Occupy Wall Street - Winter is Coming Edition

[Floria]

The entire movement is "political action".

Protests are fine, but your voting system doesn't really support changes or "political action".

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

MZ,

I agree with you and FLOW.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Protests are fine, but your voting system doesn't really support changes or "political action".

It's not our voting system as much as a our Constitutional structure. That structure clearly was a product of an underlying belief that, in general, government inaction is preferable to government action.

[Floria]

It's not our voting system as much as a our Constitutional structure. That structure clearly was a product of an underlying belief that, in general, government inaction is preferable to government action.

I meant the single-winner voting system. Voting for anything else then Republicans or Democrats is considered a wasted vote or not? Due to the propotional representation parties being formed by political movements could make it into European parliaments. Like in the 80ies, with Chernobyl & Co., the Ecological movment got enough supporters to vote the Green parties into parliament.

2013, mostlikely new liberals like the German Pirate Party will make it into the government. I doubt any small parties like this could be elected into the US senate, state governemnt or the Congress.

[Shryke]

It's not our voting system as much as a our Constitutional structure. That structure clearly was a product of an underlying belief that, in general, government inaction is preferable to government action.

Hence the loading of responsibility onto the executive over time as this idea has proved ... problamatic.

[Caliban2]

Occupy Wall Street will accomplish nothing. Maybe some nominal thing will come out of it that in the end means absolutely nothing. Kinda like obama maybe.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I meant the single-winner voting system. Voting for anything else then Republicans or Democrats is considered a wasted vote or not? Due to the propotional representation parties being formed by political movements could make it into European parliaments. Like in the 80ies, with Chernobyl & Co., the Ecological movment got enough supporters to vote the Green parties into parliament.

2013, mostlikely new liberals like the German Pirate Party will make it into the government. I doubt any small parties like this could be elected into the US senate, state governemnt or the Congress.

Even if they did, the "problem" (I consider it a virtue, but I'm in the minority here, I think) is having a Presidential versus a parliamentary system. Here, you have to control both houses of Congress and the Presidency to pass anything of significance. Making that task much more difficult is the staggered system of elections. Even if a Presidential candidate is riding a huge wave of popularity, and manages to get elected and get a majority in the House of Representatives, only a third of the Senators will be up in that same election. That means you've got to get elected and hold pretty high popularity, and have good Senators running, over at least two election cycles. That's just tough, because the historical pattern is that Presidents tend to lose votes in Congress in those off year elections..

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Triumph goes to OWS:

http://teamcoco.com/video/triumph-occupy-wall-st

[Altherion]

Occupy Wall Street will accomplish nothing. Maybe some nominal thing will come out of it that in the end means absolutely nothing. Kinda like obama maybe.

No. Regardless of what else happens, they've already accomplished something important: they've frightened some of the very wealthy.

The ultra-rich bankers, hedge fund managers and private equity executives of New York City have long enlisted private security firms to help safeguard them and their wealth. But as the mood on Main Street turns increasingly hostile, New York’s financial titans are cranking their security measures up to 11. For the high-end security firms that provide the moneyed elite with specialty services like around-the-clock bodyguards and elaborate home security systems, Occupy Wall Street has been a stimulus package all its own.

“We expect to more than double our revenue in New York this year,” said Paul M. Viollis, a co-founder of Risk Control Strategies, a firm that protects some of the top executives on Wall Street.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Triumph goes to OWS:

http://teamcoco.com/...-occupy-wall-st

:lmao:

[ThinkerX]

What we need is a constitutional amendment on election reform. Campaigns should go on no longer then one month, and debates should be the only formats allowed. They should be televised at taxpayer expense, and no money should ever go to any candidate. That is what we should be pushing for if we really want any possibility of things changing

Much better to just limit campaign contributions from any source to a maximum of 1 dollar, and make televised or at least well publicized debates - preferably at least three of them - a mandatory part of the campaign. Kind of a 'job interview' type deal - they want the job, then they have to be able to answer the tough questions about the job and why they should have it. I would also go with term limits - maximum of two terms, be they represenative, senator, or president.

Going this route might actually make it possible for ordinary sorts - like FLOW or Coco or Triskel - to run for national office with a realistic shot of actually being elected. (the televised FLOW verses Coco debate would probably be interesting)

[Liffguard]

Triumph goes to OWS:

http://teamcoco.com/...-occupy-wall-st

:rofl:

The dude with the drum!

[Shryke]

A second Iraq war veteran has suffered serious injuries after clashes between police and Occupy movement protesters in Oakland.

Kayvan Sabehgi, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, is in intensive care with a lacerated spleen. He says he was beaten by police close to the Occupy Oakland camp, but despite suffering agonising pain, did not reach hospital until 18 hours later.

Sabehgi told the Guardian from hospital he was walking alone along 14th Street in central Oakland – away from the main area of clashes – when he was injured.

"There was a group of police in front of me," he told the Guardian from his hospital bed. "They told me to move, but I was like: 'Move to where?' There was nowhere to move.

"Then they lined up in front of me. I was talking to one of them, saying 'Why are you doing this?' when one moved forward and hit me in my arm and legs and back with his baton. Then three or four cops tackled me and arrested me."

Sabeghi, who left the army in 2007 and now part-owns a small bar-restaurant in El Cerrito, about 10 miles north of Oakland, said he was handcuffed and placed in a police van for three hours before being taken to jail. By the time he got there he was in "unbelievable pain".

He said: "My stomach was really hurting, and it got worse to the point where I couldn't stand up.

"I was on my hands and knees and crawled over the cell door to call for help."

A nurse was called and recommended Sabehgi take a suppository, but he said he "didn't want to take it".

He was allowed to "crawl" to another cell to use the toilet, but said it was clogged.

"I was vomiting and had diarrhoea," Sabehgi said. "I just lay there in pain for hours."

Sabehgi's bail was posted in the mid-afternoon, but he said he was unable to leave his cell because of the pain. The cell door was closed, and he remained on the floor until 6pm, when an ambulance was called.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/04/occupy-oakland-second-veteran-injured

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Liffguard,

I was rather taken with the "piano paralellogram".

[Liffguard]

It's certainly true that most protests are highly deficient in the variety of their geometric musical arrangements.

[tzanth]

So the oakland police have sent a second Iraq war vet to the hospital. Apparently they beat him up with their batons, ruptured his spleen, arrested him, and proceeded to hold him for 24 hours without providing any medical attention.

[Lord O' Bones]

So the oakland police have sent a second Iraq war vet to the hospital. Apparently they beat him up with their batons, ruptured his spleen, arrested him, and proceeded to hold him for 24 hours without providing any medical attention.

I laughed through my tears when the advert before that video started was for motherfucking CHASE.

ETA: Also, because life is too short to pass up anything funny, no matter what, I loved that the reporter mentioned that after he left the Army he started up a brewery and that he has "dedicated his life to serving his country."

:cheers: :cheers:

[Reny of Storms End]

Heads better roll in the Oakland PD after this. Totally disgusted.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

So the oakland police have sent a second Iraq war vet to the hospital. Apparently they beat him up with their batons, ruptured his spleen, arrested him, and proceeded to hold him for 24 hours without providing any medical attention.

Anyone other than a protestor or sympathizer who has verified this?

[Verboten]

http://www.businessinsider.com/second-iraq-war-veteran-hurt-in-occupy-oakland-protests-2011-11 If this news source is too 'sympathetic for you than choose from this: http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=b922TqiTKaH30gGymZ3RBw&ved=0CCAQvwUoAQ&q=iraq+war+vet+occupy+protests&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=58b0d912fa40eb18&biw=1366&bih=673