Crackpot (or not) theories you think are so nuts, they actually piss you off.

[Whatever]

I forgot about this. Yes, this is annoying. Even if Bran were to be misled I'm not interested in Jaime being the hero.

As much as I love jaime, I guess I agree. this is not where he's heading

Lies and slander! I never thought Victarion was cool.

Why not? he's much the same as roose

[Alexia]

He was definitely not describing Dany. As Dany wanders around in the desert she realizes that she has never done anything for herself. She has always had servants of some sort dressing her, bathing her, feeding her........Whereas, Aegon is self sufficient and Daenerys is not, at least not at this point in the game.

Wait, what? :eek: Is that a joke?

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Wait, what? :eek: Is that a joke?

No.

[PatrickStormborn]

He was definitely not describing Dany. As Dany wanders around in the desert she realizes that she has never done anything for herself. She has always had servants of some sort dressing her, bathing her, feeding her........Whereas, Aegon is self sufficient and Daenerys is not, at least not at this point in the game.

But you've just ignored the first 13 years of her life. She was an orphan, had no home, never knew her brother, never knew her own country, had to run from free city to free city. She knows what it's like to be afraid. She knows what it's like to have nothing. She knows what it's like to be sold.

I haven't seen any of that with Aegon. All I've seen is that he's had a very good education. He still acts like a king and thinks the Iron Throne is his birth right (Dany does too, don't get me wrong - but she thinks that her job as a queen is to look after the smallfolk). I couldn't imagine Dany knocking over a cyvasse table and ordering Tyrion to pick up the pieces, for example.

[Whatever]

I haven't seen any of that with Aegon. All I've seen is that he's had a very good education. He still acts like a king and thinks the Iron Throne is his birth right (Dany does too, don't get me wrong - but she thinks that her job as a queen is to look after the smallfolk).

well, to be fair we don't know how much Aegon does care about the smallfolk. and we know Dany cares about the slaves she freed, but not what she thinks about the smallfolk of westeros. Anyway my point is that we know to little about Aegon

(of course, we know he's not who he thinks he is.. ;) )

[Dirty Mike]

I hate the Tyrion is a secret targ theory; it takes away so much of the meaning behind his story.

[Erinne]

Why not? he's much the same as roose

In what way? I'm honestly struggling to come up with a single similarity between them, other than "they're both evil".

[brashcandy]

But you've just ignored the first 13 years of her life. She was an orphan, had no home, never knew her brother, never knew her own country, had to run from free city to free city. She knows what it's like to be afraid. She knows what it's like to have nothing. She knows what it's like to be sold.

Oh come on, Patrick. You know just as well as I do that all those years Dany was on the run, her caravan of servants wasn't far behind with her silks and jewels, along with hot water for her baths and oils to massage her tired feet.

:rolleyes:

I haven't seen any of that with Aegon. All I've seen is that he's had a very good education. He still acts like a king and thinks the Iron Throne is his birth right (Dany does too, don't get me wrong - but she thinks that her job as a queen is to look after the smallfolk). I couldn't imagine Dany knocking over a cyvasse table and ordering Tyrion to pick up the pieces, for example.

Yes, supposedly Aegon's time living with fisherfolk and mending his nets has made him incredibly self sufficient.

[Alexia]

No.

Aegon is not at all self-sufficient. He's been taken care of all his life in safety and groomed for a throne that probably isn't even his. Whereas Dany might not have lived Arya's life (neither did Aegon) but she is completely self-sufficient. She rules a city that she took by conquest.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

well, to be fair we don't know how much Aegon does care about the smallfolk. and we know Dany cares about the slaves she freed, but not what she thinks about the smallfolk of westeros. Anyway my point is that we know to little about Aegon

(of course, we know he's not who he thinks he is.. ;) )

So far, it appears that Dany has only thought of the people of Westeros in the same way she has thought of pretty much everyone else ...they are either with her or against her. She still seems to have no grasp of the idea that to the Seven Kingdoms, she is simply another contender with an arguable (and inarguable) claim to the throne. Jorah tried to tell her that the smallfolk do not give one rat's behind who rules, as long as they are left in peace. She seems to have let that go in one ear and out the other as she clings to the mental image of Westerosi women sewing secret dragon banners and everyone praying for her return to set things right.

Of course, the chances that she will do anything of the sort are virtually nill, which is why I have a problem with the theory of her as AA. Dany's rule, in every instance where she has had power, has been pretty much a disaster on a scale that makes Cersei look like Elizabeth I. She wants to be loved more than she wants to be respected; she wants everyone to join hands and sing kumbaya more than she wants to comprehend the ugliness of reality. She came to Slaver's Bay and took it upon herself to "rule" there, and left nothing but war and desolation in her wake (which, to her credit, she seems to realize). But it takes much more than the right bloodline and being able to hop on a dragon's back to be able to rule, especially a place as complex and divisive as the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has had very little formal education; none of it in statecraft, warcraft or leadership. She believes what her brother did - because she is a Targ, she was simply meant to rule on a grand scale, and that automatically makes her competent to do so. When in reality, she cannot even rule one city, or have the sense to know not to even try, given that she had no real right to rule Meereen. Which is something that has always amused me ... Dany despised Robert and all his "dogs" for marching in and taking over everything she believes was rightfully hers. Yet she cannot seem to comprehend that perhaps the Meereenese feel the same way ...who the heck is this person, and why does she think she has the right to come marching up in here, turn our entire way of life upside down, throw out the system of ruling we were doing just fine with, and plunk her cute young behind down at the top of our pyramid as its "ruler"?

Yes, she freed the slaves. As the act of a moralist or a self-appointed Moses, this is very laudable. In terms of political and war-creating reality, it is incredibly dumb. If she's had any training or education in how the world works, she would have been able to foresee that once she caught that particular tiger by its tail, she would never be able to let go without either 1. Completely abdicating and escaping, or 2. A total bloodbath.

Dany is utterly dependent on others to do her thinking and ruling for her, and therein IMo lies her fatal flaw which may see her not even survive Westeros, much less end up its savior. Her cutesy dimpled "oh, I know I am just a young girl" speech is not going to impress the Westerosi any more than it has the people of Essos. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Oddly, she would need to have a lot of Cersei's characteristics and training to hope to survive an attempted coup.

I don't like what we have seen of Aegon so far, whether he is real or not. I have mentioned before that some of his actions are a bit too Joffish for me. But he does not seem psycho like Joff was, and is capable of learning and maturing, so we will see. In his case, at least he has had the education and preparation that Dany lacks. He does know warcraft, statecraft, the geography and houses of the kingdoms he means to rule, and understands that he is not just going to waltz into the throne room and declare "Hai, I'm the Targ heir, hop up out of my seat please.". Fake or real, he knows he will have to win his throne, and that is his sole and only focus. Dany is likely to arrive and decide that ravens are being unfairly enslaved and go on a mission to free them all, or some such nonsense; she has a frightening level of monarchial ADD.

I really have no definite opinion of who AA will turn out to be, other than that it will not be Dany, and I will be pissed and throw my book if it is; because it will require such a totally uncreditable turnaround in everything she is (I am guessing something akin to Moses wandering off into the desert and returning suddenly imbued with the wisdom of the gods, if it happens); and it will completely jump the shark as far as who and what I believe it will take to unite the people of Westeros.

[Whatever]

In what way? I'm honestly struggling to come up with a single similarity between them, other than "they're both evil".

well, they both are rapist for a start. Also, they have a weird sense of humor and a messed up family. Okay, really messed up family. And they both are horrible people (who are sometimes considered "cool") and great characters

@LadyoftheNorth72 , that was great. kudos

EDIT: Alexia, I don't thinki that taking a city with your dragons and the army you aquired thanks to those dragons makes you self sufficient.

Yes, supposedly Aegon's time living with fisherfolk and mending his nets has made him incredibly self sufficient.

I guess it depends on the definition of self sufficient. What does it mean' being able to provide for oneself? According to varys, Aegon can do that. We don't know if Dany can, since she's never been really alone all her life.

[ARYa_Nym]

I think we need proof first. Varys also said that he was killing Kevan for the realm and for the children so he was already lying in his speech. He doesn't care about the children. He uses children as his little birds. If he cared about the realm he wouldn't be trying to put Cersei back in power and he wouldn't have been whispering in Aerys' ear to make him more paranoid.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

So far, it appears that Dany has only thought of the people of Westeros in the same way she has thought of pretty much everyone else ...they are either with her or against her. She still seems to have no grasp of the idea that to the Seven Kingdoms, she is simply another contender with an arguable (and inarguable) claim to the throne. Jorah tried to tell her that the smallfolk do not give one rat's behind who rules, as long as they are left in peace. She seems to have let that go in one ear and out the other as she clings to the mental image of Westerosi women sewing secret dragon banners and everyone praying for her return to set things right.

Of course, the chances that she will do anything of the sort are virtually nill, which is why I have a problem with the theory of her as AA. Dany's rule, in every instance where she has had power, has been pretty much a disaster on a scale that makes Cersei look like Elizabeth I. She wants to be loved more than she wants to be respected; she wants everyone to join hands and sing kumbaya more than she wants to comprehend the ugliness of reality. She came to Slaver's Bay and took it upon herself to "rule" there, and left nothing but war and desolation in her wake (which, to her credit, she seems to realize). But it takes much more than the right bloodline and being able to hop on a dragon's back to be able to rule, especially a place as complex and divisive as the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has had very little formal education; none of it in statecraft, warcraft or leadership. She believes what her brother did - because she is a Targ, she was simply meant to rule on a grand scale, and that automatically makes her competent to do so. When in reality, she cannot even rule one city, or have the sense to know not to even try, given that she had no real right to rule Meereen. Which is something that has always amused me ... Dany despised Robert and all his "dogs" for marching in and taking over everything she believes was rightfully hers. Yet she cannot seem to comprehend that perhaps the Meereenese feel the same way ...who the heck is this person, and why does she think she has the right to come marching up in here, turn our entire way of life upside down, throw out the system of ruling we were doing just fine with, and plunk her cute young behind down at the top of our pyramid as its "ruler"?

Yes, she freed the slaves. As the act of a moralist or a self-appointed Moses, this is very laudable. In terms of political and war-creating reality, it is incredibly dumb. If she's had any training or education in how the world works, she would have been able to foresee that once she caught that particular tiger by its tail, she would never be able to let go without either 1. Completely abdicating and escaping, or 2. A total bloodbath.

Dany is utterly dependent on others to do her thinking and ruling for her, and therein IMo lies her fatal flaw which may see her not even survive Westeros, much less end up its savior. Her cutesy dimpled "oh, I know I am just a young girl" speech is not going to impress the Westerosi any more than it has the people of Essos. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Oddly, she would need to have a lot of Cersei's characteristics and training to hope to survive an attempted coup.

I don't like what we have seen of Aegon so far, whether he is real or not. I have mentioned before that some of his actions are a bit too Joffish for me. But he does not seem psycho like Joff was, and is capable of learning and maturing, so we will see. In his case, at least he has had the education and preparation that Dany lacks. He does know warcraft, statecraft, the geography and houses of the kingdoms he means to rule, and understands that he is not just going to waltz into the throne room and declare "Hai, I'm the Targ heir, hop up out of my seat please.". Fake or real, he knows he will have to win his throne, and that is his sole and only focus. Dany is likely to arrive and decide that ravens are being unfairly enslaved and go on a mission to free them all, or some such nonsense; she has a frightening level of monarchial ADD.

I really have no definite opinion of who AA will turn out to be, other than that it will not be Dany, and I will be pissed and throw my book if it is; because it will require such a totally uncreditable turnaround in everything she is (I am guessing something akin to Moses wandering off into the desert and returning suddenly imbued with the wisdom of the gods, if it happens); and it will completely jump the shark as far as who and what I believe it will take to unite the people of Westeros.

We disagree about a lot of things, but you nailed this.

[Whatever]

I think we need proof first. Varys also said that he was killing Kevan for the realm and for the children so he was already lying in his speech. He doesn't care about the children. He uses children as his little birds. If he cared about the realm he wouldn't be trying to put Cersei back in power and he wouldn't have been whispering in Aerys' ear to make him more paranoid.

While I agree with you that he was lying about wanting "the best for the realm" there's no reason to say that Aegon can take care of himself we he actually can't. He could be lying to himself in the first part. Maybe he actually thinks he's right, it wont be the first time. But what would be the point of saying that Aegon is self sufficient when he's not? Because it sounds cooler?

Anyway, I don't see any point in saying "okay, Aegon might be self sufficient but Dany is better". First, because it doesn't matter. Second, because I guess our definitions of self sufficient are different. yeah, we all got that Dany didn't have an easy life. But it's not like she's been living on the streets, like Arya did in Flea Bottom. Just picture Dany alone, somewhere without her dragons and then Young Griff-Raised-As-Griff's-Son. i know who would do better in that situation

[PatrickStormborn]

So far, it appears that Dany has only thought of the people of Westeros in the same way she has thought of pretty much everyone else ...they are either with her or against her. She still seems to have no grasp of the idea that to the Seven Kingdoms, she is simply another contender with an arguable (and inarguable) claim to the throne. Jorah tried to tell her that the smallfolk do not give one rat's behind who rules, as long as they are left in peace. She seems to have let that go in one ear and out the other as she clings to the mental image of Westerosi women sewing secret dragon banners and everyone praying for her return to set things right.

Of course, the chances that she will do anything of the sort are virtually nill, which is why I have a problem with the theory of her as AA. Dany's rule, in every instance where she has had power, has been pretty much a disaster on a scale that makes Cersei look like Elizabeth I. She wants to be loved more than she wants to be respected; she wants everyone to join hands and sing kumbaya more than she wants to comprehend the ugliness of reality. She came to Slaver's Bay and took it upon herself to "rule" there, and left nothing but war and desolation in her wake (which, to her credit, she seems to realize). But it takes much more than the right bloodline and being able to hop on a dragon's back to be able to rule, especially a place as complex and divisive as the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has had very little formal education; none of it in statecraft, warcraft or leadership. She believes what her brother did - because she is a Targ, she was simply meant to rule on a grand scale, and that automatically makes her competent to do so. When in reality, she cannot even rule one city, or have the sense to know not to even try, given that she had no real right to rule Meereen. Which is something that has always amused me ... Dany despised Robert and all his "dogs" for marching in and taking over everything she believes was rightfully hers. Yet she cannot seem to comprehend that perhaps the Meereenese feel the same way ...who the heck is this person, and why does she think she has the right to come marching up in here, turn our entire way of life upside down, throw out the system of ruling we were doing just fine with, and plunk her cute young behind down at the top of our pyramid as its "ruler"?

Yes, she freed the slaves. As the act of a moralist or a self-appointed Moses, this is very laudable. In terms of political and war-creating reality, it is incredibly dumb. If she's had any training or education in how the world works, she would have been able to foresee that once she caught that particular tiger by its tail, she would never be able to let go without either 1. Completely abdicating and escaping, or 2. A total bloodbath.

Dany is utterly dependent on others to do her thinking and ruling for her, and therein IMo lies her fatal flaw which may see her not even survive Westeros, much less end up its savior. Her cutesy dimpled "oh, I know I am just a young girl" speech is not going to impress the Westerosi any more than it has the people of Essos. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Oddly, she would need to have a lot of Cersei's characteristics and training to hope to survive an attempted coup.

I don't like what we have seen of Aegon so far, whether he is real or not. I have mentioned before that some of his actions are a bit too Joffish for me. But he does not seem psycho like Joff was, and is capable of learning and maturing, so we will see. In his case, at least he has had the education and preparation that Dany lacks. He does know warcraft, statecraft, the geography and houses of the kingdoms he means to rule, and understands that he is not just going to waltz into the throne room and declare "Hai, I'm the Targ heir, hop up out of my seat please.". Fake or real, he knows he will have to win his throne, and that is his sole and only focus. Dany is likely to arrive and decide that ravens are being unfairly enslaved and go on a mission to free them all, or some such nonsense; she has a frightening level of monarchial ADD.

I really have no definite opinion of who AA will turn out to be, other than that it will not be Dany, and I will be pissed and throw my book if it is; because it will require such a totally uncreditable turnaround in everything she is (I am guessing something akin to Moses wandering off into the desert and returning suddenly imbued with the wisdom of the gods, if it happens); and it will completely jump the shark as far as who and what I believe it will take to unite the people of Westeros.

I wholeheartedly disagree, of course. In my personal opinion, the only reason Daenerys struggled with ruling Meereen is because she didn't want to make her people go to war. She didn't want to fight Qarth or Volantis or Yunkai; she didn't want to cause bloodshed. However, she was very naive in thinking that the war was over as soon as she took Meereen. She shouldn't have locked up her dragons straight away, and should have fought against those who chose to take up arms against her. And, from her last chapter in ADWD, we can infer that she seems to have learnt her lesson. She knows now that she needs fire and blood to make Meereen a better place in the long run.

So, my belief is that Dany has now realised that conquering a realm and holding a realm are both the same. That's what "fire and blood" mean; Aegon and his sisters didn't just conquer Westeros with fire and blood, they held it with fire and blood. Likewise Robert's Rebellion didn't end as soon as Aerys died; he had to stabilise his reign and hold Westeros with force.

[ARYa_Nym]

While I agree with you that he was lying about wanting "the best for the realm" there's no reason to say that Aegon can take care of himself we he actually can't. He could be lying to himself in the first part. Maybe he actually thinks he's right, it wont be the first time. But what would be the point of saying that Aegon is self sufficient when he's not? Because it sounds cooler?

Anyway, I don't see any point in saying "okay, Aegon might be self sufficient but Dany is better". First, because it doesn't matter. Second, because I guess our definitions of self sufficient are different. yeah, we all got that Dany didn't have an easy life. But it's not like she's been living on the streets, like Arya did in Flea Bottom. Just picture Dany alone, somewhere without her dragons and then Young Griff-Raised-As-Griff's-Son. i know who would do better in that situation

IMO, because it doesn't matter if he is or if he isn't. Varys is doing everything he can to make it easier for Aegon to win the throne. He won't be living with the smallfolk then.

..."he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid."

Who was hunting him? How long was he hungry for? Does a day or a few hours count?

[brashcandy]

So far, it appears that Dany has only thought of the people of Westeros in the same way she has thought of pretty much everyone else ...they are either with her or against her. She still seems to have no grasp of the idea that to the Seven Kingdoms, she is simply another contender with an arguable (and inarguable) claim to the throne. Jorah tried to tell her that the smallfolk do not give one rat's behind who rules, as long as they are left in peace. She seems to have let that go in one ear and out the other as she clings to the mental image of Westerosi women sewing secret dragon banners and everyone praying for her return to set things right.

Of course, the chances that she will do anything of the sort are virtually nill, which is why I have a problem with the theory of her as AA. Dany's rule, in every instance where she has had power, has been pretty much a disaster on a scale that makes Cersei look like Elizabeth I. She wants to be loved more than she wants to be respected; she wants everyone to join hands and sing kumbaya more than she wants to comprehend the ugliness of reality. She came to Slaver's Bay and took it upon herself to "rule" there, and left nothing but war and desolation in her wake (which, to her credit, she seems to realize). But it takes much more than the right bloodline and being able to hop on a dragon's back to be able to rule, especially a place as complex and divisive as the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has had very little formal education; none of it in statecraft, warcraft or leadership. She believes what her brother did - because she is a Targ, she was simply meant to rule on a grand scale, and that automatically makes her competent to do so. When in reality, she cannot even rule one city, or have the sense to know not to even try, given that she had no real right to rule Meereen.

Dany is utterly dependent on others to do her thinking and ruling for her, and therein IMo lies her fatal flaw which may see her not even survive Westeros, much less end up its savior. Her cutesy dimpled "oh, I know I am just a young girl" speech is not going to impress the Westerosi any more than it has the people of Essos. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Oddly, she would need to have a lot of Cersei's characteristics and training to hope to survive an attempted coup.

I don't like what we have seen of Aegon so far, whether he is real or not. I have mentioned before that some of his actions are a bit too Joffish for me. But he does not seem psycho like Joff was, and is capable of learning and maturing, so we will see. In his case, at least he has had the education and preparation that Dany lacks. He does know warcraft, statecraft, the geography and houses of the kingdoms he means to rule, and understands that he is not just going to waltz into the throne room and declare "Hai, I'm the Targ heir, hop up out of my seat please.". Fake or real, he knows he will have to win his throne, and that is his sole and only focus. Dany is likely to arrive and decide that ravens are being unfairly enslaved and go on a mission to free them all, or some such nonsense; she has a frightening level of monarchial ADD.

I really have no definite opinion of who AA will turn out to be, other than that it will not be Dany, and I will be pissed and throw my book if it is; because it will require such a totally uncreditable turnaround in everything she is (I am guessing something akin to Moses wandering off into the desert and returning suddenly imbued with the wisdom of the gods, if it happens); and it will completely jump the shark as far as who and what I believe it will take to unite the people of Westeros.

I wanted to ignore this post (Honestly!!) But I cannot. I will though limit myself to just a few of the outrageous and inaccurate statements:

-

So far, it appears that Dany has only thought of the people of Westeros in the same way she has thought of pretty much everyone else ...they are either with her or against her. She still seems to have no grasp of the idea that to the Seven Kingdoms, she is simply another contender with an arguable (and inarguable) claim to the throne

ACOK - p. 428 - Daenerys thinks: The Dothraki sacked cities and plundered kingdoms, they did not rule them. Dany had no wish to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by...

Her people had followed her across the red waste as she her comet, and would follow her across the poison water too, but they would not be enough. Even her dragons might not be enough. Viserys had believed that the realm would rise for its rightful king... but Viserys had been a fool, and fools believe in foolish things.

I think this clearly shows that Dany not only wants good things for the people of Westeros, but she also realises that she is just another contender, and that her conquest will not be met by cheering crowds, and waving banners.

She wants to be loved more than she wants to be respected; she wants everyone to join hands and sing kumbaya more than she wants to comprehend the ugliness of reality. She came to Slaver's Bay and took it upon herself to "rule" there, and left nothing but war and desolation in her wake (which, to her credit, she seems to realize). But it takes much more than the right bloodline and being able to hop on a dragon's back to be able to rule, especially a place as complex and divisive as the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has had very little formal education; none of it in statecraft, warcraft or leadership.

I don't even know what to say to this. Are you being deliberately ridiculous for effect? Dany's entire life has been about facing the ugliness of reality. She was naive for a short period in AGOT, and then quickly wised up after MMD's betrayal. When she goes to Slaver's Bay she is prepared for vicious opposition, especially after she conquers Astapor. She refuses to leave Meereen (and the ugliness of that reality) behind, and commits herself to ending the violence and rescuing the economy. What Dany lacks in formal education she more than makes up for it in practical experience. Sure, she has had multiple failures, but she's also triumphed as well, and it's very important as a leader to realise that one necessarily has to fail and lose - critical knowledge that Aegon has not learnt yet.

Dany is utterly dependent on others to do her thinking and ruling for her, and therein IMo lies her fatal flaw which may see her not even survive Westeros, much less end up its savior. Her cutesy dimpled "oh, I know I am just a young girl" speech is not going to impress the Westerosi any more than it has the people of Essos. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Oddly, she would need to have a lot of Cersei's characteristics and training to hope to survive an attempted coup.

:lmao: Please lend me the book you're reading when you're through - I'd love to hear about this other Daenerys Targaryen!

Dany in no way let's others think for her, and she sure as hell doesn't allow them to rule for her either. Did you miss those chapters in ADWD when she held court diligently everyday to hear of the grievances of her people, or when she held frequent council meetings with her advisors to figure out the best way to deal with the violence in Meereen. Those meetings with the Green Grace, Xaro, Hizdahr, Quentyn... did you miss all of them? Well, alas, I can indeed understand how you would have arrived at that assertion then. As for that cutesy, dimpled line of hers, she's being sarcastic, but I understand, sarcasm is often hard to spot. As for needing Cersei's characteristics, and training, I really don't know whether to laugh hysterically or weep bitterly. :shocked:

He does know warcraft, statecraft, the geography and houses of the kingdoms he means to rule, and understands that he is not just going to waltz into the throne room and declare "Hai, I'm the Targ heir, hop up out of my seat please.". Fake or real, he knows he will have to win his throne, and that is his sole and only focus.

And now this tops the cake. Aegon was actually the foolish one thinking that he could simply turn up at Dany's court, marry her ( "Hai, I'm the Targ heir") and together they would waltz back to Westeros and conquer it with her dragons. Lucky for him, he had Tyrion Lannister there to dissuade him from this folly, and he's gone to seek his own glory.

Just to clarify: Why do you think Dany turned away from Pentos in the first place? Last time I checked it was so she could secure enough soldiers so that she could WIN her throne as well. But I guess that itsn't the way it went in that other series, huh?

[verona stark]

I don't usually get angered by crackpot theories, as I think most of them are hilarious and good fun. But there are a few that really bother me, because I just can't comprehend how anyone can believe them or come up with them.

- Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's child. No. No. No. Like her grandmother is going to help kill Robb Stark and then keep his unborn child alive, which would endanger everyone in her family, herself, and all her carefully laid out plans.

- Cersei and Jamie are actually Targaryens because Aerys took certain "liberties" during the bedding of Tywin and Johanna. Just that one line and everything's thrown everything out of proportion. I'm more likely to believe that Tyrion is a Targ because of the repeated mentions of his mismatched colored eyes - but I think that theory is lame too. "I'm a Targaryen now. Targaryens are cool. And they're all dead."

- Bran ate Jojen Reed in the weirwood paste. No thank you. I don't care what "evidence" you have; I am never going to believe that unless GRRM tells me it's true.

- Sandor/Sansa is tru lurve and they're going to get married and live happily ever after. He's going to rescue her from FrankenGregor. Yeah, because it's definitely true love when the guy says he should've raped the girl.

- Jeyne Westerling and Jeyne Poole were switched, so Jeyne Westerling actually married Ramsay Snow. What?

- Tyrion is going to warg into a dragon.

- Daenerys is actually AA and Jon is the PTWP. I thought it was confirmed that AA and the PTWP were the same thing? But I could be wrong and delusional. And hell, maybe this will happen. But I really loathe this theory. I hate any Dany is AA and/or the PTWP theory. These theories have to do with the Others. Dany has absolutely nothing to do with the Others. Maybe she'll get there! She probably will, knowing my luck. But she has no conception of the Others, what it's like to deal with them, live near them, suffer from them. (If you can't already tell, I'm big on the Jon is AA theory. But for reasons that most people don't say.) I just don't see how good it would be for Dany to swoop in and be like, "Hey guys! I'm going to save you from the Others!" (should the Wall fall, they get through, etc.) when she has no idea what the Others are, has never considered them once, and might not even know about them or think them real. Also, I completely agree with LadyoftheNorth72. I used to love Dany, but she became who she hated in ADWD: she became the Usurper of Mereen like she believed Robert was.

- Jon Snow is actually Prince Aegon. He just looks exactly like a Stark for the shits and giggles of confusing people.

- Baby Prince Aegon and Ashara Dayne's stillborn child were switched, so Gregor actually killed an already dead baby and Prince Aegon survived.

- Eddard Stark is still alive. Why must you all torture me with this theory? He's dead. Leave me to grieve in peace!

- Arya is going to become a FM that is sent to kill Sansa. There is a lot of talk about this; and I will never be able to understand it. I don't care what anyone says. I am Stark stubborn.

- Jon Snow is dead forever. I call bullshit. (And also, I can't handle a death like that or two/three more books without him.)

[Erinne]

well, they both are rapist for a start. Also, they have a weird sense of humor and a messed up family. Okay, really messed up family. And they both are horrible people (who are sometimes considered "cool") and great characters

That's a rather generic list, don't you think? You could apply pretty much the same to Gregor Clegane (although he isn't quite as well-developed as a character) or Tyrion (though he isn't quite as horrible as the others). Also I must've missed the part where Victarion exhibited a sense of humour.

Though my dislike for Victarion mostly stems from the fact that his chapters bored me and I think his POV was an unnecessary addition.

EDIT: And so this isn't completely off-topic, I'd also like to say that I dislike the "Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's child" theory. All the evidence, aside from a throwaway comment about hips that was likely a mistake on GRRM's part, points against it, and I just don't see what purpose it would serve in the story.

[Whatever]

IMO, because it doesn't matter if he is or if he isn't. Varys is doing everything he can to make it easier for Aegon to win the throne. He won't be living with the smallfolk then

This is exactly my point. It doesn't matter at all. So why did we start this "who is more able to provide from himself" contest?

@Brashcandy: I wish I had time to answer your post, but I'm tired. Just a quick quote

I don't even know what to say to this. Are you being deliberately ridiculous for effect? Dany's entire life has been about facing the ugliness of reality. She was naive for a short period in AGOT, and then quickly wised up after MMD's betrayal.

If she used to be naive until mid-agot, then she hasn't been facing "the ugliness of reality" for her whole life.

As i said above, i think people are overextimating the "ugliness" Dany faced. yes, she had an abusive brother, okay. she's ever been really "poor on the run". That bit about robert sending assassins was Viserys's delusion (we know he only decides to have the Targs killed in AGOT) and, although Viserys had to sell their mother's jewels, it has also been said that they had been hosted by rich mercants or nobles for pretty much the whole time. Viserys was "the beggar king" but this doesn't mean they actually lived on the streets, you know. think of them like the westerosi version of Jabadar Xho.

Anyway, good night everybody :)

ETA

Also I must've missed the part where Victarion exhibited a sense of humour.

C'mon, this is pretty much the first reason why people like him. The whole monkey buisness thing. His lines. Burning the girls. Many people consider him a dark comic relief