Crackpot (or not) theories you think are so nuts, they actually piss you off.

[brashcandy]

- Jon Snow is dead forever. I call bullshit. (And also, I can't handle a death like that or two/three more books without him.)

Me neither. :crying:

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Me neither. :crying:

Jon snow must live! The realm needs him! It just doesn't know it yet....

[brashcandy]

@Brashcandy: I wish I had time to answer your post, but I'm tired. Just a quick quote

If she used to be naive until mid-agot, then she hasn't been facing "the ugliness of reality" for her whole life.

As i said above, i think people are overextimating the "ugliness" Dany faced. yes, she had an abusive brother, okay. she's ever been really "poor on the run". That bit about robert sending assassins was Viserys's delusion (we know he only decides to have the Targs killed in AGOT) and, although Viserys had to sell their mother's jewels, it has also been said that they had been hosted by rich mercants or nobles for pretty much the whole time. Viserys was "the beggar king" but this doesn't mean they actually lived on the streets, you know. think of them like the westerosi version of Jabadar Xho.

So you don't think other mercenaries would have liked to capture the two remaining Targs for a nice ransom back in KL? I do think they lived on the streets too, where else would they go when the doors stopped opening? As for the ugliness of her life, try being sold into a marriage at 13 to a Dothraki horselord and being raped nightly.

[Whatever]

So you don't think other mercenaries would have liked to capture the two remaining Targs for a nice ransom back in KL? I do think they lived on the streets too, where else would they go when the doors stopped opening? As for the ugliness of her life, try being sold into a marriage at 13 to a Dothraki horselord and being raped nightly.

to someone else's. We're just never been told they lived on the street, but since we HAVE been told they were hosted by VIPs, I'll stick with this. Also, I did specify I was talking about pre-AGOT Dany. And I've never read a post from you "Dany supporters" (:D) mentioning her mariage to Drogo like a bad thing, I was starting to think I'm the only one who is absolutely disgusted by the whole thing. And no, I don't think any sellsword was looking for them. Dany DID say she never saw those "hit men" her brother talked about, and I think I'll stick with the books, since we also know Robert didn't send any.

Just to clarify: Why do you think Dany turned away from Pentos in the first place? Last time I checked it was so she could secure enough soldiers so that she could WIN her throne as well. But I guess that itsn't the way it went in that other series, huh?

Well, it was actually because she didn't want to depend on Illyrio. She though she was going to GET soldiers anyway, she just want to look more powerful when she was going to meet him. A great thing, but to be fair it wasn't even her own idea.

Also, I think there's no need to be that sarcastic about the "we've read two different books".

Or maybe that's just me being touchy, because I'm really tired now. Bye :)

[PatrickStormborn]

Although Dany never saw the "hired knives", she still lived in fear of them. It was only when she was looking back at Illyrio's that she realised that it was probably just her brother being paranoid. The fact is that, once Willem Darry died, Dany and Viserys never had a home. I would imagine that they at least spent some nights alone on the streets, even if they also spent a lot of time with people like Illyrio.I can't remember exactly, but didn't Dany say that people lost interest in them and "all the doors closed"? If so, before Illyrio invited them in they probably were on the streets.

I think the point is that Dany has had the kind of upbringing that Varys claims Aegon has had. I don't imagine that Varys et al. ever put Aegon in any real harm.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

to someone else's. We're just never been told they lived on the street, but since we HAVE been told they were hosted by VIPs, I'll stick with this. Also, I did specify I was talking about pre-AGOT Dany. And I've never read a post from you "Dany supporters" ( :D) mentioning her mariage to Drogo like a bad thing

You serious??

There were no Drogo supporters that I know of at all before the HBO series came out - most people think a lot of their relationship is stockholm syndrome-y. Aka she had to become accostomed to it to avoid going insane. And there have always been people who love Dany...

Anyway I've stated my distaste for the Dothraki's way of doing things many times in debate with you - you know better.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

But you've just ignored the first 13 years of her life. She was an orphan, had no home, never knew her brother, never knew her own country, had to run from free city to free city. She knows what it's like to be afraid. She knows what it's like to have nothing. She knows what it's like to be sold.

I haven't seen any of that with Aegon. All I've seen is that he's had a very good education. He still acts like a king and thinks the Iron Throne is his birth right (Dany does too, don't get me wrong - but she thinks that her job as a queen is to look after the smallfolk). I couldn't imagine Dany knocking over a cyvasse table and ordering Tyrion to pick up the pieces, for example.

Resiliency and being self reliant are two different things. Viserys and their hosts provided for her, she has NEVER had to take care of herself. Even within the Khalesar she had attendants. She has never had to kill, clean, cook, sew or wash anything. She even admits that she has never held a sword. Yes, she is resilient for surviving the trials of her childhood with her mind intact after all that she has been through. The fact still remains that she has always had other people to tend to her until now.

[PatrickStormborn]

Resiliency and being self reliant are two different things. Viserys and their hosts provided for her, she has NEVER had to take care of herself. Even within the Khalesar she had attendants. She has never had to kill, clean, cook, sew or wash anything. She even admits that she has never held a sword. Yes, she is resilient for surviving the trials of her childhood with her mind intact after all that she has been through. The fact still remains that she has always had other people to tend to her until now.

How does the fact that she's never held a sword prove she's never had to cook or clean or sew or wash anything? When would she have been given the chance to hold a sword? It would be incredibly unrealistic due to her size if she was somehow skilled with a sword.

She has had to kill. Mirri Maz Duur, the slavers in Astapor, etc.

[brashcandy]

Also, I think there's no need to be that sarcastic about the "we've read two different books".

Or maybe that's just me being touchy, because I'm really tired now. Bye :)

My apologies; I was just keeping in the spirit of the thread. The post was so nuts, it pissed me off.

[mediocre cheese]

She did personally treat jorah's wound. Holding a sword isn't really relevant, none of the NW members (other than Jon) have held swords prior to joining the NW, that doesn't mean they aren't self-reliant.

Varys said aegon was self reliant, that doesn't mean he is. So far we haven't seen him doing any killing, cleaning, sewing, or washing. His battle plans are conducted by connington, while he waits back at camp. On the shy maid, ysilla was doing the cooking. He isn't self-reliant when it comes to picking up chess pieces either.

[David Selig]

Why do people believe varys's speech about Aegon? It's such a blatant fairy tale it seems way out of place in ASOIF. The secret heir, who had a humble childhood, raised by wise teachers, who'd become a great King and give happiness to the people, etc. I think Varys was having a bit of twisted fun with Kevan.

[brashcandy]

Why do people belie ve varys's speech about Aegon? It's such a blatant fairy tale it seems way out of place in ASOIF. The secret heir, who had a humble childhood, raised by wise teachers, who'd become a great King and give happiness to the people, etc. I think Varys was having a bit of twisted fun with Kevan.

I agree, but I think that Varys did actually believe in what he was saying, which is all types of ironic for a man like him. Remember Illyrio's deep fondness for Aegon as well? They really do believe that he is the realm's saviour and that his upbringing all but guarantees it. Just like LF believes Sansa is going to be the good little girl in the Vale.

[ARYa_Nym]

LF just happened to beat them to the punch.

"...I warn you, the wolf and lion will soon be at each other's throats, whether we will it or no." "Too soon, too soon," the voice with the accent complained. "What good is war now? We are not ready. Delay."..."If one Hand can die, why not a second?" replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard....

Aegon would have been the savior to the mess they created. Illyrio had emotional attachment because he's his father imo.

[Candor]

Sandor/Sansa is tru lurve and they're going to get married and live happily ever after. He's going to rescue her from FrankenGregor. Yeah, because it's definitely true love when the guy says he should've raped the girl.

You have never met a true Sandor/Sansa shipper. We don't believe it's Tru Wuv whatever crap you want to say about that.

Also, you read scenes very literally in a series where on more than one occasion, the true meaning was buried.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Why do people belie ve varys's speech about Aegon? It's such a blatant fairy tale it seems way out of place in ASOIF. The secret heir, who had a humble childhood, raised by wise teachers, who'd become a great King and give happiness to the people, etc. I think Varys was having a bit of twisted fun with Kevan.

Also, in Jon Connington's last chapter in ADWD, we see that it seems Young Griff/Aegon VI is not as humble and modest as his mentors had hoped he'd be when the time came.... He may get himself killed, or ruin the kingdom in the process.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

How does the fact that she's never held a sword prove she's never had to cook or clean or sew or wash anything? When would she have been given the chance to hold a sword? It would be incredibly unrealistic due to her size if she was somehow skilled with a sword.

She has had to kill. Mirri Maz Duur, the slavers in Astapor, etc.

She and Viserys lived with RICH people all of their lives and rich people have servants. Dany admits in ADWD that she has NEVER had to fend for herself. Re-read her ADWD chapters in case you missed it.

As far as size goes, I was paraphrasing Danerys when she thinks to herself that she has never even held a sword. How about a custom crafted sword ala Arya. Lyanna was skilled at swordplay....Oh that's right a girl being skilled at swordplay or self defense is unrealistic, so we should just dismiss spearwives, Asha Greyjoy and the Mormount women. Why not learn some fighting skills as she lounges in Meereen?

I like Danerys' character, however, I will not agree that Varys was describing Dany to Kevan instead of Aegon. Nothing in the 5 books that I have read has shown Danerys to be self-reliant. Maybe this stint in the desert will change that.

Dany didn't kill MMD, she had her people tie her to the pyre. Her army killed the slavers in Astapor. Ordering murders and performing them yourself are two different things.

[Candor]

I feel bad about saying nothing about the Dany debate, but honestly it's a great big mess. So, excuse my lack of writing about it~

- Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's child. No. No. No. Like her grandmother is going to help kill Robb Stark and then keep his unborn child alive, which would endanger everyone in her family, herself, and all her carefully laid out plans.

- Cersei and Jamie are actually Targaryens because Aerys took certain "liberties" during the bedding of Tywin and Johanna. Just that one line and everything's thrown everything out of proportion. I'm more likely to believe that Tyrion is a Targ because of the repeated mentions of his mismatched colored eyes - but I think that theory is lame too. "I'm a Targaryen now. Targaryens are cool. And they're all dead."

- Bran ate Jojen Reed in the weirwood paste. No thank you. I don't care what "evidence" you have; I am never going to believe that unless GRRM tells me it's true.

- Jeyne Westerling and Jeyne Poole were switched, so Jeyne Westerling actually married Ramsay Snow. What?

- Jon Snow is dead forever. I call bullshit. (And also, I can't handle a death like that or two/three more books without him.)

1. Agreed, don't think Jeyne had his child. I am interested to see what Robb's will said, though, if we ever get to that.

2. Agreed. They're Tywin's get. Tyrion is more speculative but ultimately I think he's Twyin's as well.

3. This is one I am undecided on, but I don't like it in principle. I sure hope it's not true.

4. Jeyne Poole married Ramsay, this I am sure of, I agree.

5. I also call bullshit. Something more to that particular story, and it's not wishful thinking.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

You have never met a true Sandor/Sansa shipper. We don't believe it's Tru Wuv whatever crap you want to say about that.

Also, you read scenes very literally in a series where on more than one occasion, the true meaning was buried.

whoa! hot button topic! sensitive about the San/San shipping much? :) it's not for everybody....including your's truly, but whatever floats your boat.....

3. This is one I am undecided on, but I don't like it in principle. I sure hope it's not true.

Also....what? Did I miss something? Bran ate Jojen in that paste the CotF gave him? What?!? Where did that theory come from? I thought that both Meera and Jojen were still in that cave with him in that last chapter! I need a reread dammit!

[Candor]

whoa! hot button topic! sensitive about the San/San shipping much? :) it's not for everybody....including your's truly, but whatever floats your boat.....

Also....what? Did I miss something? Bran ate Jojen in that paste the CotF gave him? What?!? Where did that theory come from? I thought that both Meera and Jojen were still in that cave with him in that last chapter! I need a reread dammit!

I don't care if people don't like it, I only wish for them to stop treating those of us who do like goggle-eyed shipping whores. It's offensive. Very offensive, and I'm fucking over hearing things of that nature.

There's like a really long thread on the Jojen paste thing. I haven't read it all, but off my head I don't know where their logic comes from. I need a reread, too

Ohh, never mind. I remember why they thought that. Something about the weirwood paste Bran said tasted like blood.

[Candor]

Here you go, Son of Jon Snarkgaryen.

That's the thread for the Jojen paste theory