Fishy lines in the ADWD epilogue

[Candor]

I feel like the ADWD was a wealth of information if the reader was paying attention. That aside, I ran into some fishy lines (in my opinion) and wanted to hear what everyone else took them as. It's possible there's a reasonable explanation that i have missed.

1. Three or four times in rapid succession, Randyll Tarly inserts lines dismissing Connington, Aegon, and the sellsword company as "adventurers" or pretenders. As if trying to draw attention away from them, or such was my feeling when reading it.

2. Mace Tyrell had a chair ready for himself the day Kevan granted him the Handship. The chair was said to be an extravagance, shaped like a big Hand (oh clever). How did he have it made so fast, unless he was sure he had the "promotion" in the bag?

Discuss.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Those are interesting points. I've said elsewhere that the Tyrells are trickier than they seem, that there's a reason we don't have a POV for them and that it's worth remembering that they were Targ loyalists until the very end.

Having said that, I'm not entirely sure that they're really aware of Aegon's claim or think he's real. When Varys ... does his thing ... he doesn't implicate the Tyrells and it seems like the action is meant to further turn the Tyrells and Lannisters against each other, in which case, Varys still seems to think of House Tyrell as an obstacle. I think Tarly writing off "Aegon" is in line with his self-confidence, and the same with Mace jumping the gun on being named Hand. I think we'll learn more about their true motives in the aftermath of what happens in the epilogue, and then depending on what happens to Margaery.

[Miryana]

The Tyrells have got it good with Marg/Tommen, especially if she's freed and Cersei neutralised, which I expect is their aim. Abandoning the pliant young Tommen after marrying their daughter to him and having him comfortably on the throne, for the sake of possibly getting some dubious newcomer to agree to being Margaery's husband #4, is just too much of a needless risk, especially since the Tyrells appear to be motivated by personal ambition. They supported the Targ king because why would they have allied with the rebels whose potential king candidates all had Stark/Tully marriages planned or already in place; I don't think they had any dedicated loyalty to them. After that they supported the Baratheons, and might have married Margaery to Robert. If Aegon had invaded after Renly's death they might have chosen Aegon/Marg instead, but now I think it's too late for the Tyrells. They'll fight to keep Tommen on the throne and go down with him.

Although I do think the speculation about a Tarly betrayal/takeover of Highgarden is interesting. So Tarly would protesting a little too loudly in this scene, and Mace would be genuinely shortsighted and arrogant.

[1234567]

I think Tarly may indeed be one of the "friends" mentioned by the Golden Company. I suspect the Tyrells are so busy scheming with how to maintain power and get rid of Cersei, that they have forgotten other people hold old loyalties: like the hidden Dragon tapestries in Darry Castle.

[Machinist]

they are always stealing the lime light of poor tarly :)

[1234567]

Also Tarly is too competent a military commander to brush off a threat without further investigation.

Also he was at Maidenpool where ships were coming in all the time and yet he didn't mention anything about Dragons etc and he must have known what was being said on the ships.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Also Tarly is too competent a military commander to brush off a threat without further investigation.

this is one of the the reasons why i asume he will become a turncloak

oh he was also a targaryen loyalist during robs rebellion

[1234567]

this is one of the the reasons why i asume he will become a turncloak

oh he was also a targaryen loyalist during robs rebellion

I agree. I also don't think it is coincidence that he has married his 8 year old son (a highly unusual age to marry) to the daughter of Mooton. From the Brienne chapters in AFFC Nimble Dick mentions several times about the Crakehalls and people in the area around Maidenpool are all good Dragon people.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a surprise landing of some of Aegon's forces there at some point.

EDIT: Also it would also be interesting if Tarly support the Targs and R+L=J turns out to be true because his son Sam will be the best friend to the heir to the Throne.

[Hear Us Roar]

this is one of the the reasons why i asume he will become a turncloak

oh he was also a targaryen loyalist during robs rebellion

well he is a bannerman to Tyrell and they don't have much of a choice in that. Right now the Tyrell's have the small council and his daughter whispering in Tommen's ear. They rule the realm pretty easy with Cersci broken and Kevan dead. He may have just been dismissive

[the Scorpion Knight]

well he is a bannerman to Tyrell and they don't have much of a choice in that.

well mace doesn't have the controll of his bannermen Stannis, Eddard or tywin has/had

not otmention that he as a person is something Randyll despises.

[tearloch]

I am not sure that Varys sees the Tyrells as "obstacles" at all. I think what he is trying to do is keep their focus in Kings Landing, as opposed to other places. By offing Kevan, he ensures 2 things:

1. The Tyrells will continue to gain power in King's Landing.

2. The "level headed" advisor to Tommen that Kevan was is gone, leaving really only Cersei as the Lannister that Tommen can trust. Knowing Cersei's extreme distrust of the Tyrells, this sets up continued internal struggles inside King's Landing.

This makes sure that Aegon's "cover" is not blown too early. It allows him time to capture a very formidable base of operations at Storm's End, as well as time to rally his own supporters from the south. This can be Dorne, but more importantly I think it involves winning over the small folk in the Tyrells lands. This will increase the likelihood that the Tyrells will join with Aegon, or atleast non stand in his way.

The longer that King's Landing looks at the "uprising in the South led by a pretender" the better. Aegon will quickly gather strength from areas that supported the Targaryens until the end.

It also seems almost poetic that Aegon is starting his "uprising" in the place where the last major battle was fought in the last one (or am I confused thinking that Ned's breaking of the seige of Storm's End was the final chip to fall in Robert's Rebellion?)

[sarah.jenice]

You bring up some really good points that I hadn't considered.

I do hope that Aegon/Young Griff/whatever will get some good allies and it would be cool if he got the Tarlys. I've seen other posts about who will end up ruling the great Houses, and if the Tyrells fight against Aegon and the Tarlys join him, they might be gifted Highgarden in the end.

I agree that Tarly seemed like the type of guy who would want to be on his "a" game and wouldn't just dismiss the Golden Company with the potential Targaryen heir landing on the shores of Westeros.

My feeling at the end was that Varys hoped that the Tyrells and Lannisters and even the Dornishmen would crumble into chaos after he killed Grand Maester Pycelle and Kevan.

Varys to Kevan at the end of the chapter - Your niece will think the Tyrells had you murdered, mayhaps with the connivance of the Imp. The Tyrells will suspect her. Someone somewhere will find a way to blame the Dornishmen. Doubt, division and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather round him.

Maybe Varys is sure one of those lords is Tarly?

About the chair, I also agree that there is more to the Tyrells than we have seen. Littlefinger describes to Sansa how easy it was for him to manipulate them to get Loras into the Kingsguard and then to kill Joffrey. We can only guess what else he nudged them toward like telling Mace he would definitely be Hand.

[iamthedave]

well mace doesn't have the controll of his bannermen Stannis, Eddard or tywin has/had

not otmention that he as a person is something Randyll despises.

In fairness though, Eddard's bannermen ultimately betrayed and murdered his son and destroyed his house, and Tywin eradicated two entire houses of his own bannermen.

Nobody has full control over their bannermen in Westeros. Tywin's control is absolute - in comparison - because he has a big army and all his bannermen know he'll use it, while everyone barring Lady Dustin and the Boltons luuuuuuuuurve them their Starks.

[Glyn Tarvoke]

I did not, and do not, see such sinister implications in Randell Tarley's comments. He has been very successful in all his battles and such people are prone to hubris. We also know he is one of those dismissive of others without the "right" breeding--disdainful of woman, bastards, and we would assume sell swords. His comments in the ADWD epilogue are consistent with his character. He just figures its the old story of displaced lords returning with sell swords to try and recover their lost lands (mostly true, yes?) and figures once he heads south with his troops he can sort these new claimants out quickly.

A point from the Dunk & Egg stories (The Sworn Sword and the Mystery Knight) is that many nurse grievances over lost lands and some will support a new contender hoping to get back what they've lost. Varys comment seems pointed to that fact, that some will support a rebellion hoping they'll come out better under a new power structure.

Maybe RT is one of those. But seems to me he's on the winning side at the moment and if its part of his character, well we have not seen that. In Robert's rebellion, RT stayed loyal to the Tyrell's, who supported the Targs. I'd say odds are he remains loyal to the Tyrells.

Mace looks like a pompous grasping fool. As for the chair, in AFFC, Mace implies that Tywin had promised him the position as hand as part of the deal in which the Tyrells threw their support to the Lannisters. But Cersei embarrasses Tyrell before the court by publicly refusing him the position. Mace probably had the chair made awhile back. How long does it take to make a chair anyway?

[Frozen Soul]

Well the Tyrells might be an obstacle to Varys at some point considering that IMO the real Tyrell mastermind here, with her own agenda is basically the Queen of thornes and she colaborated with LF to murder Joffrey, now that could've been a one time thing or maybe they're both still working together(I dont think so but who knows) and that was an event that was a win/win situation for all of them but overall the three of them have plans of their own and they dont really have direct "control" over what one or the other does. Mace is not cunning at all but the Old Queen is and she sure as hell is going to act in a way that is beneficial for them and specially Margaery.

Since the Tyrells are ambitious and they want to keep the throne, they will do whatever they can to make sure of that, hence they're an obstacle in Varys' plan to restore the Targaryen dysnasty because I just dont see them stepping down and handing over the throne because another rightful heir to the throne showed up. I can see why Mace was so sure he would be named hand, who else really, they run the show through Marg's whisperings on Tommen's ears, now that Cersei is apparently out of the way and no Kevan.

[Slurms McKenzie]

whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather round him.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, here's a thought; What if Aegon and the Golden Company fail to capture Storm's End? After all, it is a pretty formidable fortress and history will testify to its resiliance in a siege and I do believe it is being garrisoned by some 200 very loyal Stannis men and I think they are the religious zealots that comprise the queen's men and all that. So methinks that perhaps they won't give in easily and if Aegon fails what lords would gather round him?

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

The Tyrells, or Mace anyway, isnt a threat to Varys scheme. The guy is beyond useless and the ideal man to have as Hand to the regime you want to replace. If anything, it would be worse if the Queen of Thorns was in KL, then Varys would have a problem.

I think any conspiracy that Tarly is involved in with the Golden Company, will not include the Tyrells. If push comes to shove, who will the bannermen side with? Tarly, a proven fighter & leader. Or Mace, whose 1 sole victory was probably won by his own man (Tarly).

[David C. Hunter]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, here's a thought; What if Aegon and the Golden Company fail to capture Storm's End? After all, it is a pretty formidable fortress and history will testify to its resiliance in a siege and I do believe it is being garrisoned by some 200 very loyal Stannis men and I think they are the religious zealots that comprise the queen's men and all that. So methinks that perhaps they won't give in easily and if Aegon fails what lords would gather round him?

Spoiler from Winds of Winter reading by GRRM:

I think during the Arianne Martell chapter readings by GRRM in Winds of Winter it states that Aegon and Connington have conquered Storms End.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Spoiler from Winds of Winter reading by GRRM:

I think during the Arianne Martell chapter readings by GRRM in Winds of Winter it states that Aegon and Connington have conquered Storms End.

I see, well perhaps they were too world-weary to put up a fight.........

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think any conspiracy that Tarly is involved in with the Golden Company, will not include the Tyrells. If push comes to shove, who will the bannermen side with? Tarly, a proven fighter & leader. Or Mace, whose 1 sole victory was probably won by his own man (Tarly).

I agree. If Tarly is working on anything behind the scenes, it's also behind Mace's back.