Why do people like Stannis.. I don't get it?

[Kate Poem]

^

That seems to be what's expected of the King actually.

The King on the Iron Throne seems to be more of an emblematic figure than an actual political leader. He has the final say in most matters, which is why Robert was a terrible king, he never listened to his council and just did as he pleased, but the Small Council and the Hand seem to be doing most of the decision making. Renly would've listened and/or let the council decide in his stead, while he worked on his popularity to unite the population. He was popular with the smallfolk and had the charisma and "panache" Robert and Stannis lacked. Had he named the Queen of Thorns as Hand (when the King is reasonable, the Hand seems to be the one with actual power), and intelligent people to the Small Council, his reign could've been great. Not to mention he would have the entire power of Highgarden (which seems to be quite formidable, in spite of their crappy leader) supporting him.

I can't remember if they ever talk about Renly's opinion on Littlefinger and Varys, but I've always been under the impression that getting rid of them would've been one of his first acts.

Saying he would've made a better king than Robert is frankly quite obvious and I think that while Stannis would've made better decisions as a king, he seems to lack the ability to surround himself with trustworthy and/or intelligent people, save Davos. Not to mention the realm would be highly divided under Stannis' reign and there would probably be a massive religious conflict between a monarchy that's been following the Faith of the Seven for a very long time and the new religion of Rh'llor.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical, and just my impression of Renly as a king.

Of all remaining candidates though, and especially with Kevan gone, Stannis seems like the best option, which is not saying much about the current state of affair in Westeros...

Who agreed with Robert "okay, we must kill a girl and her unborn babe" AS Littlefinger and Varys?

Who said really "it was Robert's mistake be merciful to Varys?"

Hmm. He had big army and support from Highgarden, but he had in his "royal" backside Night's Watch's pleas. Probably southern Lords did'nt want get cold. Or he had in... North's fate. Or he WANTED very, very much sit on Iron Throne.

[Binadas Sengar]

Anyone with any lingering doubts over Stannis' awesomeness, go read the Theon I chapter on Martin's site.

Bad. Ass.

Thank you! It was quite the read and I was not yet aware of it.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

If stannis actually win the throne he might find out that, after giving all those concessions to the red pristess and her red mob, that he is way to dependent on her and there is no way back.

At the moment, known and declared Queen's Men number exactly 16. That is hardly a mob. Stannis has never required that his followers or supporters convert, with the exception of the wildlings who were permitted through the Wall. That is why there are still distinctions between King's Men and Queen's Men. Even Melisandre was unconcerned enough about conversions that she remained at the Wall rather than accompanying Stannis to round up the support of the Mountain Clans, despite Jon telling her that she would nee to keep her mouth shut about R'hollor to win their support. And the wildlings can hardly be called true believers. Their choices were to stay north of the Wall and become late night snacks for wights, or make a forced and purely nominal conversion to come south to relative safety. Not much of a choice. Given half a chance, they will be back to their old ways instantly.

I agree with those who feel that Stannis' "faith" is one of convenience and expediency, not true belief. I don't think he cares if Mel's god is a rabbit pelt on a stick, as long as it furthers his ultimate goal of winning the Iron Throne.

[Neo]

One of the reasons I'm a big Stannis fan is because he is unique in his quest for the Iron Throne.

Every other player seems to want it for some kind of personal glory (Daenerys), or a lust for power (Cercei, Euron), or as a prize in some game (Renly, Littlefinger). Stannis only wants it because he believes its his 'right' as the true heir to his elder brother Robert.

I found it touching when he tells Justin Massey that if he should die in the battle against the Boltons then Massey should fight to put Shireen on the Iron Throne. He does this only for duty, and a belief in whats right. I see a lot of similarities between Stannis and Davos as they are both so faithful to their duty - Stannis in his determination to gain his Throne, and Davos in his loyalty to Stannis as his Hand. This is perhaps why there is such a close relationship and a mutual respect between the two. Both of them are battling against difficult odds, but they both might just end up on the winning side; I hope they do, anyway.

[Slurms McKenzie]

I've said this before and I'll say it again!: People like Stannis because he's luvvable!

[R'hllor-Is-The-Truth]

One of the reasons I'm a big Stannis fan is because he is unique in his quest for the Iron Throne.

Every other player seems to want it for some kind of personal glory (Daenerys), or a lust for power (Cercei, Euron), or as a prize in some game (Renly, Littlefinger). Stannis only wants it because he believes its his 'right' as the true heir to his elder brother Robert.

I found it touching when he tells Justin Massey that if he should die in the battle against the Boltons then Massey should fight to put Shireen on the Iron Throne. He does this only for duty, and a belief in whats right. I see a lot of similarities between Stannis and Davos as they are both so faithful to their duty - Stannis in his determination to gain his Throne, and Davos in his loyalty to Stannis as his Hand. This is perhaps why there is such a close relationship and a mutual respect between the two. Both of them are battling against difficult odds, but they both might just end up on the winning side; I hope they do, anyway.

Spoiler

I love Davos and Stannis because they back each other up all the time. When King Joffery died Stannis wanted to do what Melisandre said that a Kings blood will awaken the Stone Dragon at Dragonstone. Stannis really wanted to do it even though it went against what he believed in. But Davos knew this would a horrible mistake that would haunt Stannis for the rest of his life. So he smuggled Edric Storm from Dragonstone. And after the Battle of the Blackwater Davos hallucinated that the 7 wanted him to kill Melisandre. Stannis forgave him and made him his Hand of the King.

I love Stannis because he doesn't do what he is doing because he wants to. Its his duty to his people, he is the one and only King of The Seven Kingdoms. He is very fair, and even a smuggler born in the slums of Kings Landing can become Hand of The King. He doesn't care about your birth or wealth, as long as you are loyal and honest you will rise high with Stannis. He knows what it takes to be a good King. And he has been over shadowed in every way imaginable by his older brother, he was humiliated by Robert on his wedding night, and even his younger brother Renly spat on his face.

He is a great man.

[Winter's Lady]

He may not be the most charismatic guy out there, but I like him.

He doesn't really want to be king but he sees it as his duty because he's the rightful heir, he doesn't follow personal goals, he cares about the realm.

He's the only one who gives a damn about the real threat, which is the Others.

He's a great tactician and has a strong sense of justice, even if it is really really harsh. But that might be just what Westeros needs to get back in order, a strong leader with authority who's not into scheming and plotting behind everyone's back...

Hmm there is more to say about him, but I can't find the right words now. Don't you hate it if you want to say something but just can't find a way to express yourself at that very moment? :rolleyes:

Well, long story short, he's cool :cool4: .

[childofsummer]

Thanks for the discussion. I had been letting my disgust over the whole Stannis-Melisandre shadow monsters prevent me from reading their chapters that closely or (or sympathetically). I like discussions like this because they force me to think beyond my initial impressions. :)

Re: Selyse, she has been dealt a horrible hand and deseves sympathy for it. However, I think one of the things we are meant to get from analyzing her character in the context of, say, Davos or Tyrion, is that it is easy to be a good person when things are going your way but much harder when they aren't. You only see a person's mettle when things aren't so rosy. Same with Stannis. Upon rereading, his choices are what make him interesting (now) to me.

[Winter's Lady]

You only see a person's mettle when things aren't so rosy. Same with Stannis. Upon rereading, his choices are what make him interesting (now) to me.

Yes, come over to the dark side :devil: (No, not really...)

[Gingerly Grumkin]

A king does'nt have friends, only subjects and enemies

Her own father got this child on her?” Stannis sounded shocked. “We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King’s Landing

whats not to like

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Because he is honorable, and a lesser asshole than Boltons and Freys. And recognises the danger of the others. I don't fully like him though. I feel that Stannis unlike Eddard Stark is not as honorable as that guy. Another aspect of his is ambition, entitlement, arrogance, willingness to do cruelty to achieve his ambition. Yet that is not who Stannis is all the time. I think he is a conflicted character with an honorable aspect and an asshole aspect and sometimes those conflict or Davos or Jon remind him of who he should be.

No I don't think Stannis is motivated by his duty soley or lacks ambition, arrogance. Hell he even played the game a bit when he didn't tell Robert the truth and waited for Robert to die. Smart maybe because Kings Landing was full of enemies. However he is motivated by his duty partly and by doing the right thing and he can be honorable. But I think of him as a more conficted character as other see him.

Him being a conflicted character, and an honorable one who through the eyes of a great and one of the most honorable characters in the stories (I consider him kinder and better man and more honorable one too than Stanis), Davos we see how he has been wronged by his brothers, how he does care for the realm in some ways, and for his duty. But I don't consider Stannis solely dedicated to it, but certainly more so than a lot other characters and that can be admirable.

Of course he also does have some more over the top views too.

So in my eyes Eddard and Davos are more honorable people than him though in his own way Stannis is a great survivor more than Ned for certain. And the kingdom does need some men like him who know of the threats of the others and are willing to do something about it.

So these above are my views about Stannis, although I see him as a more gray and conflicted character that others might see him, the glass is half full and I kind of like him.

[GallowKnight]

And he is the only one of the Five Kings still standing, that gotta count for something.

[JKeats]

If you are not averse to spoiling yourself a little on the next book, you can head over to the Winds of Winter section of these boards. There is some material there that is relevant to the topic of this thread. That is all.

[BigBenUmber83]

Stannis seems to be a character driven by two things, honour and pragmatism. These are two dueling concepts that work against each other and are mirrored in his two closest advisors Davos and Melisandre. His relationship with Davos is one born out of his honour, not being able to raise Davos to knighthood without taking his fingers as payment against his previous crimes. He relies on Davos for good, honest counsel above those of higher birth, trusting in his advice to keep him down the right path. Melisandre, on the other hand, is an alliance born out of his need for power to ensure that he might claim the iron throne. He obviously doesn't care for Melisandres tactic and abilities, but cannot deny there effectiveness. Personally I find being honourable and pragmatic to be two admirable personality traits and ones which Stannis has been able to balance extremely well.

When people call Stannis selfish I find it very hard to understand there reasoning. He seems one of the more selfless and humble characters in the books, acting more out duty than a real desire for power, unlike most other players in the game of thrones. He has, with the knowledge that Roberts heirs were born out of incest, the best claim to the throne without doubt (the idea that a Targaryen has to be the true heir is one that doesn't hold water in medievalesque setting, just look at English history) yet doesn't glory in the fact like the Lannisters or Targaryens. His general hard yet honest demeanor would definately make him the best candidate to stabalise Westeros at the end of the books. Plus he has a deadpan sense of humour that makes him awesome!

[Ramsay Gimp]

Stannis seems to be a character driven by two things, honour and pragmatism.

I would change that to duty and pragmatism.

[ServantOnIce]

First let me say that I'm glad to be a part of this forum now. I've been reading the debates on this forum a few days now and I love it here. I started reading the series about a year and a half ago and I decided I would not go on any fan sites until I caught up with the newest book.

Now for my first post.. please tell me WHY you actually LIKE Stannis? I mean I don't hate the guy but I just cannot see any interest in him at all. Both he and his wife are uselessly entitled and just cannot back it up. Davos has been the one saving grace for me in terms of getting through Chapters with Stannis and his crew in it.. and I do have to admit in book 4 and 5 my interest has grown in the red priestess(and the other red priest as well).

Stannis is the last of the old guard. He is the very last Eddard/Robert person and even though he is stubborn, I find it great that he did offer Jon Snow the chance to become Jon Stark . . .Lord of Winterfell and Lord of the North . . that to me showed that Stannis, is a "good guy."

Stannis is the last real protaganist left in Westeros. It is just that idiotic and wicked Melisandre that has him deceived. Good men tricked by bad women . . the story of mankind.

[Light a wight tonight]

Kay, you're right. Take back everything I said about Selyse's loneliness, her mistreatment, the mockery of all of Westeros, etc. Her stache is clearly the outer manifestation of her inner corruption. Or something. :rolleyes:

Moustache and ugliness aside Selyse is just a nasty person. Brienne may lack the facial hair (and the big Florent ears nobody mentioned) but is otherwise beyond homely and doesn't come off as a chrome-plated bitch on rollerblades. Witness Selyse's behavior at Castle Black. Tries to order the Night's Watch around because she's married to one of the candidates for king.

Don't discount the possibility that Stannis stays away from her due to her incessant unpleasantness. Which seems to be a Florent family trait.

[dornish prince]

Dickish comment.

Hey, this just in-- sleeping with an ugly woman, while unpleasant, is not DEADLY. Love the sensitivity you show here, though. Almost measures up to that of the text itself, whose repeated, gratuitous descriptions of Selyse's mustache do indeed reach the level of poetry. :rolleyes:

Seriously, Stannis treats Selyse like shit-- I know this may be hard for you and 99.999 percent of others on the board to appreciate, since Selyse has a stash and is therefore inhuman, and deserves to be treated like a hamster or something. But some people might consider a guy frequently ignoring his wife, leaving her on a cold, isolated island where she has no friends all year, never writing or visiting her, screwing her once a year with a horrified, disgusted look on his face, refusing to touch her and shuddering with blatant, palpable disgust when she casusally touches his hand, flaunting his gorgeous young mistress in front of her, and being so blatant with his gorgeous young mistress that people hundreds of thousands of miles out of the way, in the middle of nowhere, know about the relationship, to be pretty shitty behavior.

But never mind. Sleeping with Selyse is DEADLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

P.S.-- and, by the by, I do not blame Stannis (or any other guy) for not wanting to sleep with (or being disgusted sexually by) Selyse. What makes his behavior so shitty is the way he won't even make the slightest accomadations to save her suffering or humiliation. Yeah, if you are in an arranged marriage and your wife is ugly, feel free to have a mistress. But for the love of god, man, show just a slight bit of sensitivity to your wife's reputation and try to be somewhat discreet so everyone-- from the wall to the riverlands-- isn't mocking her and talking about how your hot young mistress is your "true queen," and she's just some fug you keep in the middle of nowhere. Also, kind of cruel to spend weeks and weeks after a battle underground screwing your mistress and looking at her visions in fires while refusing to see your wife.

Also, it is possible to maintain some friendliness/ politeness, even the most basic courtesy, without wanting to sleep with someone. In every scene he's in with Selyse, Stannis is described as shrugging away from her (oftentimes casual and platonic) touch and looking at her with a horrified look on his face; imo, this is pretty cruel and not at all necessary.

:rofl:

don't be shy. tell us how you really feel. you just made my day.

i like stannis all the more for this exact behavior. he's odious, to be sure, a complete and utter meanie. if he were written any differently, i don't think i would like him as much.

[Ser Hippie]

Stannis is also driven by a massive inferiority complex wrt Robert.

[BigBenUmber83]

I would change that to duty and pragmatism.

Yeah I think thats a reasonable point. I think in a lot of ways duty and honour are intertwined with one another. The point really is theres a certain duality to Stannis.