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[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I, Part 2


Angalin

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I just think there's something to be debated about the cause and effect here. He possesses it because it's close to the person he needs, but could Bloodraven not also be playing a role in making sure the raven stays or goes where he needs it to? It's a chicken/egg situation. For all we know, Mormont never even had a raven at all until Bloodraven possessed one and parked it in front of him.

I kind of like the idea that Bran can communicate through time, not just space. He can see into the past (e.g. Lyanna and Benjen playing at swords); why not the future, too? So it's possible that the Bran communicating with Theon is a "different" Bran (i.e. more powerful and with more hindsight knowledge) than the one with Bloodraven at that moment.

Bran can look into the past, but so far we have only ever seen him communicate with somebody in the present.

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Observations:

The Bolton's Maester is named Tybald; is he a Lannister keeping an eye on the North? Not that he's likely to continue.

Well done on this one. We already have a Lannister maester at White Harbor. Why not one sworn to the Dreadfort?

Tangent: Do you think maesters get excited or bummed when they get their assignments? "Aw man, Last Hearth? Damn it, I was hoping for Maidenpool." And so on.

Bran can look into the past, but so far we have only ever seen him communicate with somebody in the present.

I swear there's another instance of Bran possibly communicating with someone — Jon, maybe? — where people did speculate that Bran was doing it from the future and not the present.

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Do you think Bran will expose Jeyne somehow?

I am hopeful that Ramsay will be captured and sacrificed before the weirwood, since the Boltons were once kings this could activate the 'kingsblood thing". Thus Theon will not need to die.

I mean I know that because of Theon's rank, he is entitled to be executed first (which is why Katherine Howard's execution scene in The Tudors was inaccurate-Katherine, as a Queen and as a Howard was entitled to be executed before Jane Parker, and so she was). But I am hopeful that Theon will request that he see Ramsay die first.

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So, Asha definitely wants to rescue Theon. It could conceivably be because she actually cares about him (in his reduced state, at least), but in any case she absolutely needs him to challenge the Kingsmoot (it's invalid since Theon wasn't present, is the argument).

Whether she's got all the other aspects covered is a different matter… but all that's for naught if Theon gets killed off, so that's her priority.

It was a very juicy teaser, really liked the chapter. I'm somewhat intrigued about the crows/weirwood/Bran angle, but mostly was happy to see Stannis trying to make the best of the situation. Logistically, their problem is that they need the attack pretty soon since even with (if I recall correctly) the meager fishing in the lake, the army's starving.

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I'm very interested by what Theon said when he mentions four or five of the swords are missing, he says 'The stone kings are angry'.

oh yeah, Theon is remembering that lil visit to the crypt with ..um.. Lady whatsherfaceDustin. She was the one that pointed out a sword missing and then he noticed some others as well. Completely forgot 'bout that!

Think its safe to save by now there's quite a few cockroaches in Theon's head and at this rate half the things he says will sound as sane as Patchface or Moonboy

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It doesn't make sense for Theon to be a POV for only one chapter - I don't expect him to get executed at the weirwood. Also, we have to many Greyjoy POVs. Conclusion: Asha will try something and be killed as a result.

Now if Theon kills her with Stannis sword, would that make him AA?

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I'm very interested by what Theon said when he mentions four or five of the swords are missing, he says 'The stone kings are angry'.

I think it's just him being nuts and trying to get across that the boys are still alive. The swords missing are the ones that have either rusted, or were picked up by Team B+R.

The crypts are a very curious thing I believe the Stark's have a closer relationship with Others than they realise.

There could be something there, it's certainly been mentioned plenty of times… but I'm leaning more on a secret passage than anything supernatural (including a dragon).

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I think it's just him being nuts and trying to get across that the boys are still alive. The swords missing are the ones that have either rusted, or were picked up by Team B+R.

Yep. But Theon also tells Asha that there are "ghosts in Winterfell'. I think he refers here as well to the hooded man he saw as to the unexplained deaths that happened there, like Little? Big? Walder - I always forget which one was killed and which one turned up spattered with blood :crying: .

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I dont think theo has figured out that bran hid the in tombs yet. So he thinks the ghosts took the swords. With the trees talking to him I could see how he thinks the ghosts are loose.

oh comeon, Theon may be a bit dim sometimes, but even he must of figured out that one!

Back when they realized the tracks leading everyone out of Winterfell on a crazy hunt were meant as a distraction back in...err.. book 2 or 3? (can't keep track of them at the moment) Probably didn't put that final piece together 'till his return to Winterfell as a shadow of his former self tho

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oh comeon, Theon may be a bit dim sometimes, but even he must of figured out that one!

Back when they realized the tracks leading everyone out of Winterfell on a crazy hunt were meant as a distraction back in...err.. book 2 or 3? (can't keep track of them at the moment) Probably didn't put that final piece together 'till his return to Winterfell as a shadow of his former self tho

We have been in his head alot and I dont ever remember him coming up with this. If he didnt relize it when he was down there with lady dustin I dont think he has figured it out yet.
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I think that the supposed hate, by the northmen, for Stannis is overstated in this thread (or the last one, anyway). Stannis may have burnt a weirwood tree here or there, but he even did so at the wall (when the wildlings surrendered) and this didn't stop Jon Snow, a number of wildlings including Mance Rayder, nor the mountain clans of siding with him. If he now starts to show respect to the north and its customs by going to execute Theon "their way" (with the execution probably getting stopped in some way, maybe by Freys attacking in the nick of time or by intervention of Bloodraven/Bran), I think Stannis may be well on the way to making himself acceptable as king for the northmen. He sure is a lot better than the Bolton/Frey alliance, from their POV, as long as he doesn't go completely Melisandre's way (and presently he seems to turn away somewhat from her).

It is interesting to speculate what would happen should a (victorious) Stannis learn about Robb's will. While he would be alarmed about Jon, he could also attempt to use it to convince Jon to take Winterfell as Stannis' banner man, with Robb's blessing.

There is nothing to blame Jeyne for, so I hope she makes it out of all this alive. I agree with those who hope she will be the catalyst that alerts the Starks about Littlefinger and his machinations.

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What an excellent chapter! Just when everything seemed to be over for Stannis we get an insight into his own feelings about his current predicament!

I still remain in the camp that believes Ramsay wrote the Pink Letter. Some of the information must have been provided through Stannis and his ravens - the information regarding Lightbringer and Arya.

For me the most interesting part of this chapter was Asha at the end. I wonder if there is an Asha chapter set prior to this chapter where we get her feelings on Theon and his current state. It would not surprise me if she had had a dream regarding the weirwoods - especially considering her fascination with them in her previous chapter. I doubt that Asha has any idea that Bran influenced the dream, but she will use it to plan an escape.

Unless of course Bran knows that Stannis will lose the battle and wants Theon out of the way - in the grove. Bran's appearances to Theon have echoes of Bloodraven's appearances to Bran. I think the greenseers have some greater role for him - something that makes me believe this is Theon thinking that he flew off the walls of Winterfell...

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@Wouter: woah woah woah! You mean Stannis is actually bending to gain better popularity?!?!

Also, why would Robb's will matter to him? He sees himself as the true King, so whatever some kid wrote of a bastard half-brother can't possibly make him give more fucks in the matter

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Not sure where you coming up with this? could you explain more.

Basically, if you were to be executed alongside someone, the person of highest rank was executed first.

Hence Katherine Howard (being a Howard, and also a demoted Queen) was executed before Jane Parker.

Theon, being the legal lord of the Iron Islands, outranks Ramsay Snow (a bastard), and is therefore entitled to be executed first.

However I would expect that Theon's last request would be to see Ramsay die first.

hopefully Ramsay in dying as a sacrifice to the Old Gods, would activate the power of the greenseers much more strongly, especially as the Boltons were once kings.

I believe that the only way the Weirwood networks could have been useful for intelligence gathering (as ADWD implies) is that the weirwoods enabled the greenseers to communicate across vast distances (thus transmitting say a conversation between a man and a woman in the kingslanding godswood) to a man praying at a godswood on an isle on a lake three days ride from Winterfell.

Yet Bloodraven specifically says that he cannot talk to people? Why because my theory is, that without sacrifices to the Old Gods, the Greenseers are simply not powerful enough.

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Just a thought, might be way off track but what makes a King a King?

Isnt Theon the eldest son of Balon and as such (outside of the Ironborn customs of a Kingsmoot) he would be heir and therefore King of the Seastone chair? I only ask as it might be relevant if he dies in some way (hacked onto a Weirwood or burnt to R'hllor) and you then get some serious "sacrifice of a Kingsblood" powers.

Edric Storm was due for the bonfire as he had "Kings blood" without having any actual entitelement to the throne for example.

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There is nothing to blame Jeyne for, so I hope she makes it out of all this alive. I agree with those who hope she will be the catalyst that alerts the Starks about Littlefinger and his machinations.

Jeyne can't be killed until Rickon is returned - for all intents and purposes she is Arya Stark. It is in nobody's best interests for Arya to die. I wonder whether Alys Karstark could play an important role here? Surely she remembers Sansa and Jeyne from her visits to Winterfell as a child? With Jon dead only she or Theon could disprove "Arya".

I think it would be more dangerous to know that Arya is fake than to be fake Arya.

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