‘I’m not African-American,’ some blacks insist

[Nukelavee]

I'm kinda curious how the honour killings near Kingston support your idea, Robin. That was much less a case of an insular demographic leading to 4 murders, and a clash between a family's traditional values (held by 3 members), and the desire of the daughters to actually "assimilate".

On the other hand, hmm, yeah, it is totally possible to end up with insular ethnic, sigh, ghettos that have more in common, internally, with the "home" region than Canada or teh US.

I REALLY don't want this point misunderstood - I am NOT saying racism is on the wane, but, at least in my region of Canada, the "them folk are fucking weird" response has become much less, um, intense than when I was much younger.

Still, I dunno about this "ban imports, buy American made workers" idea, seems a touch , umm, simplistic.

[awesome possum]

You've got it a little wrong. The proponents of Sharia law want to use it in defense of crimes under our law. Of course, if anyone wants the following in their country...I pulled these off http://wikiislam.net...i/Rape_in_Islam

News

• Afghanistan - Afghan Cleric Defends Law Legalizing Rape in Marriage
  
• Somalia - 13-Year-Old Rape Victim Stoned to Death For 'Adultery' as She Pleads For Her Life
  
• United Arab Emirates - Australian Rape Victim Jailed for 'Illicit Sex'
  
• United Arab Emirates - Teenage Gang-Rape Victim Sentenced to 1 Year in Prison
  
• Dubai - French Gang-Rape Victim Faces Jail For 'Adultery'
  
• Saudi Arabia - Philippine Woman Imprisoned for Being Rape Victim “Under Shariah Law”
  
• Bangladesh - 14-Year-Old Rape Victim Whipped to Death by Sharia Court
  
• Malaysia - Will Only ‘Causing Hurt’ Constitute Marital Rape? - Shaqib Shamsher, Case Studies, UT MARA Debating Society, September 27, 2009
  

Please share how these cases, in countries that are and have been heavily Muslim for decades if not centuries, have any connection to Sharia Law being established in any country in the western world?

[Robin Of House Hill]

By virtue of the fact that people bring their own cultures with them and instantly set out to have their cultures made part of ours. I think that's what got everyone foaming at the mouth when I first said it.

[Sci-2]

Perhaps I'd attach more significance to that if the so-called free market were truly free and not constantly manipulated. Also, from what I can determine is that no everyone can agree on what constitutes running things into the ground.

If the US needs more engineers, it can attempt to provide incentives or simply increase h1 visas for engineers. The latter seems less costly and likely raised the overall mathematical intelligence of a country in sore need of it.

Now, as to amnesty for illegals in the name of cheap labor without consideration for the loss of jobs that US citizens could do - yes it should be considered.

By virtue of the fact that people bring their own cultures with them and instantly set out to have their cultures made part of ours. I think that's what got everyone foaming at the mouth when I first said it.

You've yet to describe this culture of "ours"

[awesome possum]

By virtue of the fact that people bring their own cultures with them and instantly set out to have their cultures made part of ours. I think that's what got everyone foaming at the mouth when I first said it.

Every morning I instantly set out to have a billion dollars fall from the sky into my outstretched hands.

For some reason, it just doesn't work though. There is as much of a chance as that happening as Sharia Law being enacted in the US.

But if you insist it's something we should all be worried about, well, I won't bother you. Enjoy your madness.

[Young Wolf]

. You've yet to describe this culture of "ours"

He meant to say "his".

ETA: That it's "his" culture under attack.

[Robin Of House Hill]

If the US needs more engineers, it can attempt to provide incentives or simply increase h1 visas for engineers. The latter seems less costly and likely raised the overall mathematical intelligence of a country in sore need of it.

Or, it could see that we produce more engineers. Of course, since we still import engineers when there are unemployed engineers, I will have to assume that you really mean cheap engineers.

Now, as to amnesty for illegals in the name of cheap labor without consideration for the loss of jobs that US citizens could do - yes it should be considered.

Somehow, having 12 million people here who have shown their contempt for our laws, doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...especially when it is for the benefit of employers who want to get as close to slave labor as they can.

You've yet to describe this culture of "ours"

For the purpose of discussion, let us say the existing culture prior to the arrival of the latest one(s) to come ashore. It isn't practical to say that which existed in a specific year.

[Sci-2]

Or, it could see that we produce more engineers. Of course, since we still import engineers when there are unemployed engineers, I will have to assume that you real mean cheap engineers.

You do realize the starting salaries are the same right? That Microsoft doesn't say, "Well you're from India so we're going to give you less money."

For the purpose of discussion, let us say the existing culture prior to the arrival of the latest one(s) to come ashore. It isn't practical to say that which existed in a specific year.

Can you describe it? You seem so certain it is failing, so you should be able to describe what is being lost.

Somehow, having 12 million people here who have shown their contempt for our laws, doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...especially when it is for the benefit of employers who want to get as close to slave labor as they can.

Again, this is too vague. What contempt? Who are these 12 million people?

I just find it baffling that you think America becomes less "American" rather than immigrant's kids end up more "American".

Do you think these people have a greater or less desire for the integrity of the Union than people who mutter nonsense about the "War of State's Rights"?

[TerraPrime]

Re: FLoW

The first is if we're talking not as much about cultural differences as value-based differences. If you have immigrants who have differences in values from what is generally consistent with values held by the majority of Americans, then you could have problems. Otherwise, cultural differences are just window dressing that doesn't really affect anything.

This is a valid argument only if one supposes a staid, concrete set of principles that are immutably welded into being American. When you absorb immigrants, you stand the risk that they will shift some of your core values. If you don't want the risk of this, then ban immigration. Practice immigration abstinence and you can avoid impregnation by foreign ideas. Foreign ideas like perhaps the individual doesn't always trump the collective, or that religious plurality doesn't mean which flavor of Christianity you like.

It is also rather alienating to say that someone who has naturalized to be an American can have no influence on what being an American can mean, and instead, must conform to the existing values. So, are they, or are they not, an American? Maybe the U.S. government should implement a cultural purity test ("do you love guns like you love your dildo(s)?") before they formally accept immigrants into its folds? Otherwise, I do not see how you can legitimately accept someone to become a U.S. citizen and then turn around and castigate them for holding on to values that are different than yours.

Make no mistake, this sort of "we're in danger of falling apart" accusations are often directed at the immigrants, recent ones, and not pointed inwards to the various separatist groups, you know, like the one that Palin's husband was so cozy with, or the various Freeman groups in Montana/UP Michigan, or the anti-federalists that hold workshops and political organizations aiming to dissolve our Federal government. Now that is not un-American, at all, right? Of all the users on this board posting, the most un-American is not one of any recent immigrant descent, but Tormund, who wishes to disband the entire U.S. government. But does he get the finger-wagging? No. It's the Muslim immigrants and the ethnic minorities who want to use hyphenated descriptors who are a danger to the U.S. society, because, apparently, the goal of dissolving the entire U.S. political structure is less dangerous to our way of life than using hyphenated descriptors.

The second is if you have large numbers of immigrants who wish to remain insular after immigration, without a desire to assimilate, and a preference for dealing with those people who are of the same ethnic background. Especially if coupled with a stronger sense of loyalty to their native country than their new one.

You said this as if there's evidence of a mounting surge of recent immigrants who refuse to assimilate. Evidence have been posted before on 2nd and 3rd generation children of recent immigrants and they follow pretty much the same path of integration as prior waves of European immigrants. Do you have some evidence to suggest that the recent immigrants from Mexico and South America, or those of Muslim faith, are any more likely to remain insular through the next generations compared to the Irish and the Polish of years past?

Re: Awesome Possum

Holy shit, is someone really arguing that we're in danger of having Sharia law enacted?

What? There are entire organizations dedicated to this. Check out Tradition, Family, Property which uses the slogan of "Neither apostasy nor dhimmitude."

That's gotta be without a doubt the dumbest fucking thing in the history of dumb things said on this board.

Just wait a day.

[Robin Of House Hill]

You do realize the starting salaries are the same right? That Microsoft doesn't say, "Well you're from India so we're going to give you less money."

Can you describe it? You seem so certain it is failing, so you should be able to describe what is being lost.

Again, this is too vague. What contempt? Who are these 12 million people?

I just find it baffling that you think America becomes less "American" rather than immigrant's kids end up more "American".

Do you think these people have a greater or less desire for the integrity of the Union than people who mutter nonsense about the "War of State's Rights"?

From wikipedia.

Wage depression

Wage depression is a chronic complaint critics have about the H-1B program: some studies have found that H-1B workers are paid significantly less than U.S. workers.^[39][40] It is claimed^{[41][42][43][44][45][45]} that the H-1B program is primarily used as a source of cheap labor. A paper by Harvard Professor George J. Borjas for the National Bureau of Economic Research found that "a 10 percent immigration-induced increase in the supply of doctorates lowers the wage of competing workers by about 3 to 4 percent."^{[citation needed]}

The LCA included in the H-1B petition is supposed to ensure that H-1B workers are paid the prevailing wage in the labor market, or the employer's actual average wage (whichever is higher)^{[citation needed]}, but evidence exists that some employers do not abide by these provisions and avoid paying the actual prevailing wage despite stiff penalties for abusers.^[46]

DOL has split the prevailing wage into four levels, with Level One representing about the 17th percentile of wage average Americans earn. About 80 percent of LCAs are filed at this 17th percentile level^{[citation needed]}. This four-level prevailing wage can be obtained the DOL website,^[47] and is generally far lower than average wages^{[citation needed]}.

The "prevailing wage" stipulation is allegedly vague and thus easy to manipulate^{[citation needed]}, resulting in employers underpaying visa workers. According to Ron Hira, assistant professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology, the median wage in 2005 for new H-1B information technology (IT) was just $50,000, which is even lower than starting wages for IT graduates with a B.S. degree. The U.S. government OES office's data indicates that 90 percent of H-1B IT wages were below the median U.S. wage for the same occupation.^[48]

In 2002, the U.S. government began an investigation into Sun Microsystems' hiring practices after an ex-employee, Guy Santiglia, filed complaints with the U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Department of Labor alleging that the Santa Clara firm discriminates against American citizens in favor of foreign workers on H-1B visas. Santiglia accused the company of bias against U.S. citizens when it laid off 3,900 workers in late 2001 and at the same time applied for thousands of visas. In 2002, about 5 percent of Sun's 39,000 employees had temporary work visas, he said.^[49] In 2005, it was decided that Sun violated only minor requirements and that neither of these violations was substantial or willful. Thus, the judge only ordered Sun to change its posting practices.^[50]

What contempt? If the first thing you do when you enter this country is break its laws, I'd say that is contempt. The 12 million estimated to be in this country illegally.

I'd prefer it if people didn't benefit by coming here illegally. I'd prefer it if the offspring of those here illegally didn't automatically become citizens.

I think they want to earn money and are willing to accept a rate of pay that is substantially lower than those here legally would accept.

[The Mance]

For the purpose of discussion, let us say the existing culture prior to the arrival of the latest one(s) to come ashore. It isn't practical to say that which existed in a specific year

:lol: You're going to have to hone it down a bit more than that. People of different cultures have been "coming to shore" here all day, every day, since this country was founded. So exactly which arbitrary moment in history did you have in mind?

[Robin Of House Hill]

:lol: You're going to have to hone it down a bit more than that. People of different cultures have been "coming to shore" here all day, every day, since this country was founded. So exactly which arbitrary moment in history did you have in mind?

1955.

[The Mance]

1955.

:lol: Figures.

[Xray the Enforcer]

How can this be? Asians are white enough!

[Robin Of House Hill]

I don't find the meaning of the last two posts clear enough to respond.

[The Mance]

I don't find the meaning of the last two posts clear enough to respond.

Because your absurdly unfounded romanticizing of the "laconic '50s" is both entirely predictable*, and perfectly in keeping with the rest of your xenophobic (there, I said it) ramblings.

*So much so, that I very nearly put in a sarcastic prediction in my first post.

edited: to add that I don't know wtf Xray is saying either.

[Datepalm]

Ah, 1955. Real America. The non-halal, non FDA regulated apple pie tasted better, gays didn't exist and Blacks knew their place. (at the back of the bus. Rosa Parks wouldn't budge in December of 1955,)

[Xray the Enforcer]

edited: to add that I don't know wtf Xray is saying either.

It is the spectre of boarders long past, and their assertion that while Mexicans and other dark-skinned immigrants kinda suck, Asians are miraculously "white enough" to be embraced by Proper American WASP Culture.

[Sci-2]

employers do not abide by these provisions and avoid paying the actual prevailing wage despite stiff penalties for abusers

I notice the entire section of caveats was left out of your copypasta. I'm willing to grant that I wasn't aware of this, I figured it lowered the average salary by increasing supply.

ETA: And admittedly, I also figured for the most part the supply was lower than the number of jobs.

It still seems the problem isn't immigration but greed. Rather than barring immigration it seems the thing to do is hold corporations accountable.

I've actually been called racist, despite being Indian, for suggesting the number of H1B visas be severely reduced during recessions. So we're not in disagreement. What troubles me is you seem to be arguing that the problem is not economics - on which we agree - but rather cultural, which I don't see.

As to illegal immigration, I think we find more agreement.

[TerraPrime]

Ah, 1955. Real America. The non-halal, non FDA regulated apple pie tasted better, gays didn't exist and Blacks knew their place. (at the back of the bus. Rosa Parks wouldn't budge in December of 1955,)

But it's hell of a time if you're a white Christian.

Re: Xray

Only East Asians. I don't think Indians are included. Also, bonus if they're bisexual hot chicks who like bobbleheads.