Stannis & the Peach

[BlackBrother55]

Correct, Stannis defended storms end during the rebellion, nearly starved but held it all the same as his brother Robert commanded. And it return Robert gifted Renly with storms end. Stannis of course took that as insult from both Robert and Renly, increasing his "affections" for them both.

Actually Stannis defended Dragonstone, not Storm's End. Storm's End(the ancestral seat of the Baratheons)was given to Renly by Robert.

[wargalicious]

I thinkk the peach is Renly sort of trying to communicate he doesn't take it seriously but is also a passive agressive act designed to deflate Stannis' pomposity and also remind him that underneath the game they are both brothers and there is some kind of love there. Stannis fixates on it later because of the guilt he feels. Renly's last act to him is to nonchalantly offer him a peach; Stannis has him killed.

[The Crow]

Isn't it obvious, Bran will warg the peach and use it to defeat the Others will it's mystical juice powers.

It is the chosen peach, the peach of phrophecy.

it is the fruit that was promised

[The Crow]

Actually Stannis defended Dragonstone, not Storm's End. Storm's End(the ancestral seat of the Baratheons)was given to Renly by Robert.

No, Dragonstone was inhabited by Rhaella and enemy forces, she gave birth to Dany and Viserys, remember?

Stannis was defending Storm's End, and then Robert gave it to Renly, to which Stannis took as an insult.

[James Arryn]

I thinkk the peach is Renly sort of trying to communicate he doesn't take it seriously but is also a passive agressive act designed to deflate Stannis' pomposity and also remind him that underneath the game they are both brothers and there is some kind of love there. Stannis fixates on it later because of the guilt he feels. Renly's last act to him is to nonchalantly offer him a peach; Stannis has him killed.

It's not just that he has him killed. He has him killed in a manner he would regard as condemnable if anyone else did it. In a manner that Renly himself would have rejected 10 out of 10 times. The only evasion I have seen Stannis ever make was with regards to it...suddenly forthright Stannis sidesteps and asks others to speak for him. he clearly feels guilt, both about what he did and how he I'd it, and it astonishes me that some people cite his (IMO, evident) protestations/rationalizations as though they were real positions.

A peach doesn't just contrast with a murder; it contrasts starkly with a shadow-baby assassination. Visually alone, Stannis is operating in what Goethe would consider the world of theories, whereas Renly was coming from the tree of life. It's funny that Stannis is seen as direct and Renly devious; other than perhaps a kindness to Brienne, I can't recall a single instance where Renly is anything but entirely honest, whereas Stannis is often operating out of the shadows. Renly was a player, but not in a devious way; he was merely able to read situations and others better than his brothers.

Except, of course, he didn't see previously unheard of shadow baby assassin coming...the dolt.

[SpringKing]

I've been digging a lot in GRRMs interviews lately and I found this (just want to share it to everybody):

In the second book Renly gives Stannis a peach. What did you want to tell us with that?

The peach represents... Well... It's pleasure. It's tasting the juices of life. Stannis is a very marshal men concerned with his duty and with that peach Renly says: "Smell the roses," because Stannis is always concerned with his duty and honor, in what he should be doing and he never really stops to taste the fruit. Renly wants him to taste the fruit but it's lost. I wish that scene had been included in the TV series because for me that peach was important, but it wasn't possible.

Stannis not only never enjoys the juice of life, that deficiency also prevents him from even puzzling out the significance of pleasure in Renly's gesture. Even the most honorable true heir to the throne is unfit if he is not also clever and kind, able to increase his subject's pleasure as well as assure their duty, loyalty and honor.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Stannis I believe in the peach sees Renly as nothing but an opportunist who saw Stannis being weak.

[cassidyaj]

I never thought about Stannis sort of secretly wanting the peach, but I can see how that would be true. He wants people to react to him like they do Renly. He thinks that they should by rights do that for him but he can't change himself to be like Renly to make them do it.

[ummester]

I've been digging a lot in GRRMs interviews lately and I found this (just want to share it to everybody):

In the second book Renly gives Stannis a peach. What did you want to tell us with that?

The peach represents... Well... It's pleasure. It's tasting the juices of life. Stannis is a very marshal men concerned with his duty and with that peach Renly says: "Smell the roses," because Stannis is always concerned with his duty and honor, in what he should be doing and he never really stops to taste the fruit. Renly wants him to taste the fruit but it's lost. I wish that scene had been included in the TV series because for me that peach was important, but it wasn't possible.

Believe it or not - I was going to give a similar answer.

Stannis doesn't allow himself anything sweet, so Renly was offering Stannis a taste of what it was like to relax and enjoy things. The reason Stannis lingered on it is because he doesn't get it - Stannis can't relax and enjoy things.

[dopplerdog]

I think ultimately it shows that Renly is arguing from a stronger position. Stannis is all stoicism and rights-of-succession, but Renly doesn't bother with that. His peach is a symbol that unlike Stannis he's not going to deprive himself, and that he doesn't care for Stannis' stoicism any more than he does about his rights argument. And deep down Stannis knows Renly is correct: for all his talk of rights-of-succession, Stannis knows that the Baratheons have usurped the throne that "rightfully" belongs to the Targaryens, so his arguments are all moot - what matters is that Renly has the numbers behind him.

Remember Stannis endured near starvation at one point - Renly is just rubbing it all in.

[Jehane]

@TheCrow: OMG, that really cracked me up right now *lol* The Images in my mind right now are a bit... well... peachy xD

As for the peach, I thought it was a nice symbol of Renly's attitude - he didn't take things too seriously yet was very confident that he would win because people loved him. Hardly anyone loves Stannis. And I just loved the scene in which Stannis obsesses about the peach, that was really funny :)

[The North]

I think ultimately it shows that Renly is arguing from a stronger position. Stannis is all stoicism and rights-of-succession, but Renly doesn't bother with that. His peach is a symbol that unlike Stannis he's not going to deprive himself, and that he doesn't care for Stannis' stoicism any more than he does about his rights argument. And deep down Stannis knows Renly is correct: for all his talk of rights-of-succession, Stannis knows that the Baratheons have usurped the throne that "rightfully" belongs to the Targaryens, so his arguments are all moot - what matters is that Renly has the numbers behind him.

Remember Stannis endured near starvation at one point - Renly is just rubbing it all in.

A lot of great perspectives int this thread, but I agree with yours the most. This sums it up...Stannis knows (deep down) his claims are as arguable as any other non-Targaryn, which is why he employs the Red Witch and her sorcery to give him an advantage. Not because he isn't "loved", but because his claim of succession is as relative as the rest.

[The Drunkard]

So if Stannis felt his claim was inarguable, he wouldn't use Melisandre?

We've had GRRM explain the scene, by the way. Nothing to do with Stannis "deep down" being insecure about his crown.