Pregnant Women

[Mya Stone]

I'm not angry either. Just drunk.

I haven't been drunk since my 30th birthday. :(

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Yep, a sandwich is the same as alcohol. God knows the shocking statistics of Fetal Subway Syndrome and the many deaths caused each year Sandwich Poisoning. If you think alcohol being bad for a baby is an "opinion", you have not reached a level of maturity where you should have become pregnant.

No one here is saying that fetal alcohol syndrome is a myth. No one here is advocating heavy drinking throughout pregnancy. Relax, read the link Mya posted on Listeria, do a little research on mercury poisoning, untwist your boxers, and come back to the discussion.

The problem here is simple. Everyone has forgotten that a woman* of apparently child-bearing age is actually not a woman anymore, but a fetal life-support system. Folic acid for everybody over 12! No caffeine for anybody! PUT DOWN THAT SUSHI RIGHT NOW, MADAM!

* I don't have hard stats, but I don't think trans men are treated as pre-pregnant the same way. And when/if they do become pregnant, they are bombarded with a different kind of judgement altogether.

I had forgotten that. Didn't we conclude in a prior thread that all women of child-bearing age are just FLSS es? I block out inconvenient truths from time to time.

[salt]

That logic would be that poison in any amount = not good for unborn baby.

Raidne, I've seen many differing medical opinions on the matter from a variety of sources, its dificult to prove that a glass of wine now and then is either harmful or harmless. 'Now and then' is a tough thing to measure. I personally would err on the side of caution since there is never any reason that one needs to drink alcohol, but I wouldn't try to force that choice on anyone else.

I am not telling any pregnant woman what to do, its is one of the most shockingly difficult things any human being can go through and how you cope with it is up to you, you, and only you. The rest of the world won't be there to help when your baby is born, so they can fuck right off for this stage of the operation as well. if I were bartender and a pregnant woman asked for a glass of wine, I would take her money and give it to her. You are free to do what you want when you are pregnant, just as I am free to reach conclusions as to what it says about your character as a person.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I haven't been drunk since my 30th birthday. :(

Heh. My problem is that I'm a cheap date now.

[Nichole]

I haven't been drunk since my 30th birthday. :(

Aww... to be honest, being drunk is overrated. If you aren't drunk, you don't have to deal with being hungover.

[Mya Stone]

Heh. My problem is that I'm a cheap date now.

Me too! We should go out one night. I bet we'd spend less than $20 (yes, even in NYC). :P

[Arbor Gold]

Jesus, in the context of having just seen my mother this weekend, that's fucking harsh. Really???

You repeatedly served a pregnant lady a drink she didn't order, because you thought you knew better than she did. That's pretty harsh imo.

[mouse]

Yep, a sandwich is the same as alcohol. God knows the shocking statistics of Fetal Subway Syndrome and the many deaths caused each year Sandwich Poisoning. If you think alcohol being bad for a baby is an "opinion", you have not reached a level of maturity where you should have become pregnant.

Echoing Mya and Zabzie, the risks to the fetus from listeria (avoiding listeria is the rationale for avoiding cold cuts) are really, really serious - just one bad cold cut could result in miscarriage. So, one listeria-contaminated sandwich is actually far more dangerous than one glass of wine.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I had forgotten that. Didn't we conclude in a prior thread that all women of child-bearing age are just FLSS es? I block out inconvenient truths from time to time.

Yeah, pretty much. That reminds me, I need to hop on the folic acid train, so that when I "oops" some guy into being my baby daddy, I have a better chance of bilking him out of child support for the full time allotted.

[Guest Raidne]

You are free to do what you want when you are pregnant, just as I am free to reach conclusions as to what it says about your character as a person.

Basically, you agree with this guy:

The thing about using any drug during pregnancy—and alcohol is essentially a drug—is that we always have to do what's called a risk/benefit analysis," says Dr. Joel Evans, MD, director of the Center for Women's Health in Darien, Connecticut, and author of The Whole Pregnancy Handbook. "What are the risks of using this drug, and do the benefits outweigh the risk? There's absolutely no health benefit to alcohol, and there are some theoretical risks."

OTOH, the French think it helps women to relax, and there is some data to support that, and beyond a doubt, being happy and relaxed during your pregnancy is one of the best things you can do for your baby. So, there would be a benefit if one small glass of red wine improved your mood. Naturally, you can feel free to judge someone whose mood is improved by a glass of red wine, but there's not a lot she can do about that really, although I accept that different people have different ideas about the will and what you can consciously control.

[salt]

Me too! We should go out one night. I bet we'd spend less than $20 (yes, even in NYC). :P

Well, 20 dollars worth of booze in Manhattan can't hurt anyone, seeing as how that will get you about half a milliliter of Yellow Tail :D.

[Minaku]

I just wanted to come in here and say that pregnancy-caused incontinence is the absolute fucking worst. I can handle having to pee often, sleeping only on my left side (okay not that, I said fuck it and slept on my right), not having sushi, not having soft cheeses, not having cold cuts, not being able to get in a hot tub, not eating undercooked red meat, not drinking alcohol, not going out to jazz night at the club because of secondhand smoke, not being able to take stairs (I had a hemorrhage my first trimester that didn't resolve itself for a while), being told what to eat, when to eat, being admonished for what I did eat, being judged for not being deliriously happy that I was pregnant but accidentally peeing yourself every time you cough?

That can go fuck itself.

And then after pregnancy for like, half a year you continue to pee yourself if you aren't careful. Sometimes if I have a long sneezing fit I get scared. And I'm more than 2 years postpartum.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Well, 20 dollars worth of booze in Manhattan can't hurt anyone, seeing as how that will get you about half a milliliter of Yellow Tail :D.

Let's see - for $20, I can (i) buy a bottle of non-rotgut wine, (ii) get 2-3 beers, depending on the bar, the beer in question, and the size of the tip, (iii) get 1 glass of (decent) wine at a (decent) wine bar, 2 glasses if you chance wine at an Irish Pub (not recommended), or (iv) get 1 fancy cocktail or 2 non-fancy cocktails (probably).

Me too! We should go out one night. I bet we'd spend less than $20 (yes, even in NYC). :P

See above. I think it's likely. I would want to pin my address to my coat before we started so I'd be sure of getting home.

I've graduated to "ilk" status. Yay me!

I'm not going to tell a stranger the same thing either. I thought I made clear I was talking about family members, ostensibly people that I care for and have a vested interest in looking out for. But the times my those two family members would ask to bum a smoke from me, I never felt any compunction about telling them no, even though I normally have no problem with it.

Ok - that's cool.I don't know that I would do differently for, say, my sister.

[Guest Raidne]

You repeatedly served a pregnant lady a drink she didn't order, because you thought you knew better than she did. That's pretty harsh imo.

Well, fair enough. I took enough personal hits on that in the last thread. To put the full story out there, I was 18 and worked at a local cafe, only smoking cafe in town. I actually eventually had to quit over the air quality, so I guess the caffeine is really besides the point. Anyway, we have this regular customer, pregnant, talks about being pregnant, is clearly pregnant, etc., and she orders coffee and mochas all the time. More than one a day. At first, I'm serving her, but I start feeling kind of bad about it and I do some research and it turns out she's having something like 500+mg of caffeine per day which is not even arguable. I don't want to get into anything with her, she's really nice, etc., and it's none of my business, honestly, but I really don't feel like I can keep doing this with all the extra shots, etc. So I made a compromise with myself and made her halfcaf.

I'm not saying it's an ideal solution or that I know it was the right thing to do. It was a tough call for me at the time. Maybe you think that means I'm a total harridan who constantly berates everyone for their inferiority, but I think you're being a little harsh.

And then after pregnancy for like, half a year you continue to pee yourself if you aren't careful. Sometimes if I have a long sneezing fit I get scared. And I'm more than 2 years postpartum.

Like pac-man? You should read my other thread. ;)

[Ken Stone]

There was an article somewhere a couple of years back (when I was pregnant) that described the cultural phenomenon of women becoming community property when they are pregnant. That is, it somehow becomes culturally ok to tell a pregnant woman something you would NEVER tell her otherwise. It's wrong, but it's there.

I think the person was confusing the concept of "community property" and "concern for a child". If someone got mad because I put vodka in a baby bottle and fed it to my new born, it's not because they consider me community property. That being said, WTF is all the fuss for one glass of wine? The reason one glass of wine doesn't hurt the baby in the third trimester, is because one glass of wine doesn't do shit. It takes 3 glasses to even sniff a buzz.

[salt]

Let's see - for $20, I can (i) buy a bottle of non-rotgut wine, (ii) get 2-3 beers, depending on the bar, the beer in question, and the size of the tip, (iii) get 1 glass of (decent) wine at a (decent) wine bar, 2 glasses if you chance wine at an Irish Pub (not recommended), or (iv) get 1 fancy cocktail or 2 non-fancy cocktails (probably).

Damn, I should find new bars. I typically drop 12 dollars on a imported beer/microbrew, maybe 8 dollars for domestic.

[Angalin]

I don't understand, your point is because nothing is safe every thing is ok?

No. My point is that there are a lot of things that are considered to be bad for a developing fetus, and I do not want the goddam "experts" who are my waiters, barristas, mothers-in-law, and co-workers telling me what I can and cannot put into my body. This is not to say that I didn't take good care of myself when I was pregnant. As I said, I had doctor-sanctioned sip of champagne at a wedding and on New Years, and I believe a half glass of wine at a dinner on our anniversary. I'm not exactly a candidate for AA. However, I happen to think that the trend of treating pregnant women like their brains are consumed by the parasitic being growing inside them so that their every move must be monitored, discussed and regulated is insulting and ridiculous.

What she said.

Oh God. I forgot about no baths. That was the WORST. Particularly when I got so big that I was afraid I'd keel over if I tried to wash my feet.

That's a pedicure moment, if you can find a nail polish that's pregnancy-friendly. And let's not get started on hair dye. :rolleyes: And people wonder why women get tetchy about being told what's okay when pregnant? We are bombarded by ill-informed judgements and constantly changing data. Except the cold cuts: listeria is a constant.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Damn, I should find new bars. I typically drop 12 dollars on a imported beer/microbrew, maybe 8 dollars for domestic.

Well, if you are willing to settle for Bud Light, you can get two:) But if you go to a place like The Stumble Inn or Brother Jimmy's, you can get like $5 PBRs or pretty cheap pitchers, depending on the time of day, etc., etc. I'm not exactly out and about in the bar scene though. See above. I've, you know, got kids. Last time I went out/out it was for a friend's birthday someplace chic downtown, had one cocktail and basically had to excuse myself, go home and pass out. I think I spent $15 on the drink, but it was a fairly trendy place. . . .

What she said.

That's a pedicure moment, if you can find a nail polish that's pregnancy-friendly. And let's not get started on hair dye. :rolleyes: And people wonder why women get tetchy about being told what's okay when pregnant? We are bombarded by ill-informed judgements and constantly changing data. Except the cold cuts: listeria is a constant.

Yeah, I was always more worried about climbing in and out of the pedicure chair. It was a spectacular fall waiting to happen.

[TerraPrime]

It takes 3 glasses to even sniff a buzz.

This is not true.

I will get drunk on half a flute of champaign, and I will start to throw up and pass out after half a bottle of beer.

I can't imagine that I am the only human being with this low level of tolerance for alcohol.

[Jaxom 1974]

BTW, the Dr that delivered our son - her ob/gyn- told Krista explicitly that in her 3rd trimester a glass of wine would not have an impact as the development that it could impact has all ready been completed.

Mrs. Jax got the same speech. Twice. Each pregnancy she didn't actually have any wine, but she appreciated knowing she could.

I haven't been drunk since my 30th birthday. :(

So what? Last week then...?

I subscribe to the old Cosby line: "Natural child birth means not drugs will be administered to the mother at any time. The father can have all he wants."