Initial Impressions on Season 2

[Caro99]

6 days to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David C. Hunter]

Great, they made my favorite character look like an idiot and do something that he'd never do. Awesome! :bang:

Im sure it's not that bad, lol. just wait and see, and honestly it might have a payoff for later.

It is called an adaption for a reason, I just hope nothing feels rushed

[Bastard of Boston]

Thanks for the insightful review. I was worried about the first few episodes. There's so many new faces, I almost expected that there was going to be a muddle up front. But, good to hear that -- after the chore of new character intros is over with -- the series finds a good rhythm in epis 3 and 4.

[PatrickStormborn]

What did Littlefinger do that was so bad and how is it that we know it isn't somehow manipulating Cersei?

From what I've heard, he lets her know that he knows about her relationship with Jaime, and then he tells her that "knowledge is power". She then gets her guards to arrest him and tells them to slit his throat, but then she stops them and tells him that "power is power".

[teemo]

From what I've heard, he lets her know that he knows about her relationship with Jaime, and then he tells her that "knowledge is power". She then gets her guards to arrest him and tells them to slit his throat, but then she stops them and tells him that "power is power".

That sounds kind of dumb :\

[David C. Hunter]

From what I've heard, he lets her know that he knows about her relationship with Jaime, and then he tells her that "knowledge is power". She then gets her guards to arrest him and tells them to slit his throat, but then she stops them and tells him that "power is power".

If that is the case then it does make him look stupid and weak and Littlefinger doesnt make mistakes like that unless he figures "The queen cant kill me."

[teemo]

Yeah, Littlefinger doesn't directly mess with people who he know can have him killed on the spot.

[Linda]

I think the Littlefinger scene exemplifies what, for me, is the biggest overall problem: a lack of subtlety and an unnecessary heightening of the tension. There seems to be no faith in the TV audience being able to handle the unexpected storytelling that GRRM often uses. Except when it comes to killing people when its least expected. But when it comes to GRRM not showing something that you might have expected to see soon again after the first book...well, there they don't trust his choices. There's also a lack of layering; a lot of characters and situations in the books aren't quite as they seem from the start, but here they're pretty upfront about what everyone is like from the get-go.

For me, it makes it a much weaker story overall, even if individual scenes that are almost straight from the book can be very good.

[Humble Asskicker]

D & D may have been smart to be less subtle. Luck is an example of a subtle show (to the point of being opaque) that failed spectacularly for being...well, subtle. The Wire is another example of a show that was subtle and didn't get viewers until after it finished. The Wire numbers are not the kind of numbers that GoT needs.

Overall, this review has gotten me excited. The Littlefinger thing is bothersome, but I've considered him a different character from the start. Cressen is such a minor character that I don't care about him. It was a nice little character story in the novels, but I would rather the show focus on getting momentum than paying respects to every little character in the novel.

I think ten episodes is a good policy for this show. More is condensed but that's a good thing. At this point the show needs momentum, not the rather languid pacing of the first four episodes of the series.

In fact, condensing could improve the show over the books later on. I mean, people have read books four and five, right? You guys realize how mind-numbingly boring they would be portrayed on screen without serious cutting?

I used to be a purist, but after reading those two books, I applaud most changes now. Anything to avoid that pitfall and make the middle of the series potentially enjoyable is a great thing.

[Linda]

Ultimately, it depends on your priorities. I can understand wanting the numbers to ensure the show stays on the air for as long as possible. However, my personal feeling is that I would much rather have 2 or 3 really faithful seasons than 6 or more so-so faithful seasons. My only interest is in the show as an adaptation, in seeing the scenes I love from the books. Which is why I try to be clear about that when I write any reviews or comments; that's how I view it, if you don't agree, you'll probably like it more.

[Lord Varys]

This scene with Littlefinger and Cersei makes no sense at all, I guess. The whole point with his character is that he might incline such a thing, but never state it to Cersei (or Jaime, or Tywin, or Joffrey) in a way that would make them perceive him as a threat. He would effectively throw his life away if he did such a thing. No idea what's the point of this.

By the way, do we get a glimpse of Selyse and/or Shireen? Or are both of them at least mentioned. The fact that Stannis is married was already mentioned back in the first season, so I guess this will at least not be contradicted...?

Since we already get a glimpse of Pylos in the character preview, is there some guy who looks like/may be/is Ser Axell Florent?

Selyse only needs to be fully introduced in the next season, I guess, when Stannis is going to hang around on Dragonstone a lot, but it would be good to realize that she is there.

Oh, and what about the Tully situation? Is there a chance we are going to see/meet Riverrun, Edmure, Hoster, and Brynden in season 3?

I'm somewhat confident about this Littlefinger-Cat-thing, though. And about highlighting Margaery this early in the series. The lack of a Tyrell POV damages the original story to a degree. Is Renly more himself this time? Making him this unsure in season 1 I could - grudgingly live with - but I'm would be rather pissed if they would decide to omit the peach and Renly being the coldblooded nice guy...

[StarkBlack21]

Is PATCHFACE going to be in the series? if so are they going to introduce him next season with Shireen or this season?

[Ran]

Selyse is seen. She's glimpsed in the previews, actually. But she's basically just an extra, not sure she'll have any lines at all.

Have yet to see Patchface or Shireen in the first four episodes.

Re: Littlefinger and Cersei,

Yes. For me, when he plays tit-for-tat with Tyrion, dancing around the question of the dagger in the books, it's because he knows that Tyrion believes that right now Littlefinger is bullet-proof -- he's too important, too needed, for Tyrion to try and do anything now. But imagine him trying to do that with Cersei, a character who believes that no one is bullet-proof unless she says so? It doesn't really fit at all. It's a very rookie sort of mistake, and it feels like maybe something Littlefinger might have done when he was brand new to court, not when he's a veteran of it of some fourteen years.

So it was really just to push a thematic point, and have the visual of Cersei having complete command of the guards or whatever, and it basically felt like a disservice to Littlefinger's character to have him act in a way that feels very uncharacteristic. I'm not sure that the scene exists to justify anything but the chance to have someone do the knowledge is power vs. power is power thing.

In any case, yeah, that was a disappointing scene for me. They're capable of better.

[teemo]

I believe they think Patchface is way too annoying to be in the show, especially since they probably don't want to explain his story of (not sure if anyone really cares about Patchface, but just in case)

how he really was clever and amusing before he traveled from Volantis and spent two days undersea and went mad.

He'll just look like Jar Jar Binks or something.

Selyse is seen. She's glimpsed in the previews, actually. But she's basically just an extra, not sure she'll have any lines at all.

Have yet to see Patchface or Shireen in the first four episodes.

Re: Littlefinger and Cersei,

Yes. For me, when he plays tit-for-tat with Tyrion, dancing around the question of the dagger in the books, it's because he knows that Tyrion believes that right now Littlefinger is bullet-proof -- he's too important, too needed, for Tyrion to try and do anything now. But imagine him trying to do that with Cersei, a character who believes that no one is bullet-proof unless she says so? It doesn't really fit at all. It's a very rookie sort of mistake, and it feels like maybe something Littlefinger might have done when he was brand new to court, not when he's a veteran of it of some fourteen years.

So it was really just to push a thematic point, and have the visual of Cersei having complete command of the guards or whatever, and it basically felt like a disservice to Littlefinger's character to have him act in a way that feels very uncharacteristic. I'm not sure that the scene exists to justify anything but the chance to have someone do the knowledge is power vs. power is power thing.

In any case, yeah, that was a disappointing scene for me. They're capable of better.

See, that just infuriates me :devil: It sounds like HBO is so obsessed with pushing this "power" thing. WE GET IT OK! It's a freakin' war of five kings! Don't disgrace my favorite character! :crying: Yes, I'm overreacting, considering I haven't even seen it. But still.

[Padraig]

I think we can oversell the LF is an idiot thing.

LF is only an idiot (or makes a mistake) if Cersei actually kills him/arrests him/removes him from his position etc. If she doesn't do anything like that, what has LF actually lost? Cersei might view him with suspicion going forward but if she doesn't actually do anything then it's all bluff. Cersei thinking she has more power (few would threaten LF) than she actually has (not willing to kill LF). Classic deluded Cersei.

Most of all he knows. After all her bluster, she might actually be a little intimidated by him (without ever really realising it). You win or you die...and LF isn't dead...

Personally, I think Cersei has changed a lot more than LF in that scene. In the books, I doubt LF would have done such a thing but only because Cersei is different, not because he is different. For the TV version he probaly would have less inhibitions taking such a chance. She is more contemplatative. Not apt to fly into rages (and actually kill him). Now some of her instability is due to events at end of aSoS but still, even in aGoT, she is clearly more stable in S1 than in the book.

Now maybe if I see the scene, its clear that LF had no clue that Cersei would turn on him. Then he would be an idiot. But if he took a chance...well LF loves taking chances. And like most things he takes a chance on...at worst, he may came out a bit bruised but he is certainly not broken. While Cersei probably thinks he is suitably cowed. Heh. That is why I was wondering in my previous post about whether that scene has any impact on later episodes.

The scene reminds me of how Ned also threatened him in S1. Bluster but no actual force behind it. Parallels are nice like that. So the more I think about the scene, the more I can convince myself how neat it is. But admittedly, I may totally change my mind when I see it for real.

Things I would expect. No peach (its a fun scene but Renly is different, whether we like it or not). No Patchface (why would they have him?). My ideal is that I want the series to go on as long as possible but be reasonably faithful (but not as faithful as some would like, I imagine). Otherwise why bother? I don't mind some changes since I can always revert back to the books when I want to see the true story. I certainly had very few issues with S1's faithfulness. I expect my views on faithfulness will only be challenged if we get to S4.

[Skeksi]

From what I've heard, he lets her know that he knows about her relationship with Jaime, and then he tells her that "knowledge is power". She then gets her guards to arrest him and tells them to slit his throat, but then she stops them and tells him that "power is power".

That's.... really, really dumb :/ LF is established in both book and first series as someone who is great at manipulating people and making them think he is on their side, and he

basically tries to blackmail/ whatever Cersei with the same information that got Ned Stark killed, whilst she's got guards around her. Hell, even NED managed to avoid being surrounded by armed guards at this point. When you make Ned look like a master of subtlety, something has gone terribly wrong with your plotting. I can't imagine LF up to this point, having seen Cersei's reaction to the previous threat to unveil her incest, and having spent years around her in court, deciding it was a good idea to threaten her. This description just makes him sound really, really stupid.

I really hope there is some reason behind LF's actions that we see later in the series, though I can't imagine what gain could be so great that he would risk his life so blatantly at this early stage. And I can't see how it would be "too subtle" not to include this scene? LF openly states he's not on Cersei's side a couple of series down the line, and if they're planning to show him with the Tyrells, surely they could make it clear there that he's playing for himself rather than the Lannisters at that point? Not to mention the strong implications in the last season finale that he's after the throne himself anyway...

As for the knowledge is power vs. power is power, there are surely other ways they could have used to exemplify that. Without, you know, making a character for whom manipulation and brains is somewhat of a defining trait look like kind of a moron.

I should really start concentrating on stuff other than LF in my replies on this thread XD Sooo...

I'm looking forward to seeing Joffrey and Cersei interact privately- we don't see that really in the books, of course, we only see Cersei's "proud mother" face, if you will, shrugging off/ glossing over Joffrey's actions. The two of them interacting privately is obviously, looking at the two characters we're talking about here, not going to have quite the same taste to it. Honestly, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Cersei privately face the reality of her golden child, if indeed she does...

... and given what I've heard about their interactions, it seems likely she will to an extent.

EDIT: Padraig, I like your suggestion. I think I will adopt it too, until I see the scene and make my mind up :)

[the maester]

Yeah, Littlefinger doesn't directly mess with people who he know can have him killed on the spot.

except for Brandon Stark

[Linda]

I'd say that Cersei and Joffrey is another area where they've brought out the sledgehammer to make the points they want to make. However, if you did not hate the portrayal of Cersei in the first season (as I most definitely did, it was the worst part of S1), you probably won't mind it.

[Linda]

except for Brandon Stark

Well, isn't the point that he learned a valuable lesson from that? ;)

[teemo]

Well, I'm just going to pray to the old gods that the writers redeem themselves later in the season with LF. That what he did was some kind of manipulative scheme and related to his long game, whatever that is. Otherwise, I'm just going to go crazy :)