Initial Impressions on Season 2

[Padraig]

You don't need Michelle Fairley again after her initial revival. Just show her once and keep her covered in her cloak from then on. I think the unCat storyline works very well. The possiblility of revenge at last for the Starks is dangled in front of us but she ends up been a monster. And the unCat storyline is important right now. See the ending of aDwD and aFfC. Catelyn escaping from the Twins would be ridiculous.

I don't see much point in keeping the Maggy the Frog storyline. Its needlessly complicates the story. We don't need another explanation for why Cersei dislikes Tyrion. There are definitely a lot more important aspects to aFfC.

I doubt I will dislike the LF-Cersei scene too much. I'm prepared for it now. :) Going in fresh could have been different. And I don't mind the TV Cersei anyhow. If she was a favourite character, I might care more. But Catelyn is the only character i'm a saddened to see changed. And even then...well...I was prepared for a lot worse.

[Werthead]

Forgot to ask about the title sequence: does the map show Qarth right away in Episode 1 or do they just go to the Red Waste? Do we see Slaver's Bay or any other familiar landmarks along the way? I know the new HBO Viewer's Guide map should answer these questions at the weekend before the episode even airs, but a last ponder of the mystery seems like fun :)

I'd be annoyed if they dropped Maggy the Frog. People make more of it than they should, IMO, since it merely serves as an excuse for her already awful behavior rather than being the root cause of it. She hasn't thought of it in years is the very first thing she notes when she recalls it.

Well, exactly. If she hasn't thought of it in years and it doesn't have any impact on her earlier behaviour and has no real impact on her behaviour going forwards (she already hates Tyrion for killing her mother, father and - she believes - her son and would want him dead regardless of there being a prophecy that he will kill her as well), then it is redundant. It should only remain, IMO, if GRRM has indicated it is hyper-important to future plot threads. At the moment it seems to exist solely to reinforce Cersei's hatred of Tyrion which is understandable and warranted enough at the moment.

The only need for the prophecy would be if Cersei learns that Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey. And of course that's irrelevant because he still killed her father, more than enough for her to want him dead anyway.

[Ran]

No Qarth or Red Waste in the opening sequence. For the most part it just flies off to Vaes Dothrak and beyond until episode 4.

[Ty3009]

I think the change will serve to illuminate LF's actions later in the series much more clearly. I really don't think that the series could be as cagey as the books about LF's motivations and plans without it feeling like it comes out of nowhere later on in the series. It would feel unsatisfying and contrived if you haven't read the books.

[Ty3009]

No Qarth or Red Waste in the opening sequence. For the most part it just flies off to Vaes Dothrak and beyond until episode 4.

I'm such a nerd but the opening credits are one of the things I'm most excited about! Any new landmarks at all?

[Ran]

Oh, certainly. Four of them in the first four episodes.

[Werthead]

Oh yeah, Dany doesn't reach Qarth until Ep 5 IIRC, so we wouldn't see it on the map just yet. And in Season 1 they used Vaes Dothrak even when they were nowhere near there (in Episode 2 and most of Episode 3 they were still thousands of miles to the west, within the Free Cities region, and after Episode 7 they're in Lhazar or on the edges of the Waste, presumably hundreds of miles from Vaes Dothrak), so that makes sense.

For the other locations, Dragonstone, Pyke and Harrenhal sound like no-brainers. Storm's End/Bitterbridge/wherever the parley is being held is the other, I imagine?

[Lebronn Jaime]

I think the change will serve to illuminate LF's actions later in the series much more clearly. I really don't think that the series could be as cagey as the books about LF's motivations and plans without it feeling like it comes out of nowhere later on in the series. It would feel unsatisfying and contrived if you haven't read the books.

They come "out of nowhere" in the book. That's the whole point. No one will suspect him because he seemingly has no motive or opportunity to commit his crimes. He then tells us that he simply thrives on the chaos. As it is GRRM still hasn't given us a true, over-arching motivation for LF as of book five, so I'm not sure why the show can't do the same.

If they don't think they can make a successful television series while making it a faithful adaptation, then maybe they should drop the pretense that it's a faithfull adaptation.

[Ty3009]

They come "out of nowhere" in the book. That's the whole point. No one will suspect him because he seemingly has no motive or opportunity to commit his crimes. He then tells us that he simply thrives on the chaos. As it is GRRM still hasn't given us a true, over-arching motivation for LF as of book five, so I'm not sure why the show can't do the same.

If they don't think they can make a successful television series while making it a faithful adaptation, then maybe they should drop the pretense that it's a faithfull adaptation.

I know that the full extent of LF's comes out of nowhere in the book but I don't think that would work in the medium of episodic television.

It sounds like you're a pretty hardcore purist so you may not enjoy the series very much.

[Werthead]

I know that the full extent of LF's comes out of nowhere in the book but I don't think that would work in the medium of episodic television.

TV is considerably less forgiving of extending mysteries or character arcs over a long period of time. By the time The X-Files got around to explaining WTF was going on with half its long-running arc plots eight to nine years in, most people had long since stopped giving a toss. A lot of people lost patience with Lost long before the ending as well, and that was only over six years.

Babylon 5 was a reasonably good example of how to give information out: the show lasted five years, but major mysteries and character arcs within that over-arcing storyline were resolved much faster (the mystery of the Battle of the Line was resolved in just over one season, the mystery of the Shadows' backstory and motivations in two and a half, and the Vorlons' true appearance in three and a bit season, with a red herring after two seasons).

If they don't think they can make a successful television series while making it a faithful adaptation, then maybe they should drop the pretense that it's a faithfull adaptation.

GRRM was the first person to say he doesn't think the show can remain a very close adaptation and nor should it. The show has to change some things, and over the course of the show those changes will spread out and cause additional changes, resulting in a butterfly effect that could result in the show ending up a very different beast to the books. Sure, the producers have said they will try to remain faithful, but no-one is expecting a word-to-word translation of the book to the screen.

Part of the issue is that 'faithful' seems to be a rather loosely-defined word. Some people take 'faithful' to mean only characters, dialogue and scenes from the books can be on screen and nothing else. Others understand that this would result in a butchered, incoherent mess of a TV series and that changes, sometimes dramatic, are required to make the same story work on screen whilst retaining the bulk of the characters, storylines and themes of the books (I would argue that GoT Season 1 and the LotR trilogy are in this category). Others - usually Hollywood writers and PR people adopt this line - are happy if the work is 'faithful to the spirit' of the original work, even if this means little of the original survives to the screen bar a few names. We are a long way - at the moment - from the third scenario.

[Ran]

I'd hate to think that episodic television which was able to keep fans hooked for years waiting to learn more about Ben Linus or the island, or could string out the rise and fall of Stringer Bell over three years, was somehow incapable of keeping Littlefinger's motives as hard to pin down.

Because, if that were true, that means that we're going to be learning Varys's motives a lot earlier than we do in the novels, right?

(I don't think so, but it seems to be the logical conclusion if you believe that Littlefinger revealing a bit of his plan and motives in ASoS is unsupportable, then you believe Varys's turn at the end of ADwD is utterly impossible on TV. And we're due to learn the truth of Jon's parentage any minute now on the TV show, too!)

[StarkBlack21]

The WIRE is the greatest TV series ever. Though behind the scenes there were many struggles to keep it on the air. I do think HBO is okay with characters and storylines extending long term, so I think the Littlefinger situation was probably a creative decision made by D&D. I think people have to remember. No matter what is said, the TV series is D&D's creation, they have complete control creatively, and being a writer myself, it a hard line when you are doing book adaptations.

There might be some things in D&D's opinion in GAME OF THRONES that they weren't thrilled with in the book ( there is nothing wrong with that, these guys are top notch writers, and they may some difference in opinion in some things regarding the source material) and they feel they want to change or get rid, but still believe they are doing a faithful adaptation that works for the story they are trying to tell. This is D&D'S ADAPTION.

Notice what they said in their interviews, they are doing an adaptation of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE as a whole, not a book by book adaptation. That should give you a good idea, that they feel some things will not work or needed to be changed or strengthened in their creative opinion to make the TV series as great as possible.

Once again, there is nothing wrong with that, and I know it will ruffle people's feathers but that the nature of the beast when 2 other screenwriters adapt someone else's material. I think D&D have done an incredible job so far, and expect as much in the future.

[Werthead]

I must admit I was thinking a little bit more about the mysterious elements rather than simple character revelations. LF and Varys's arcs should work on screen as they did in the books without too much of a problem (especially since LF's revelatory moments will come in Season 3 or 4, depending on how they split ASoS, which isn't too long to wait).

The Others appearing as rarely as they do in the books could be more of an issue, but the trailers suggest they're going to keep them in-play and remind the viewer about them a bit more often than in the books.

And we're due to learn the truth of Jon's parentage any minute now on the TV show, too!

What mystery? Eddard is his father and some common woman called Wylla was his mother, as we were clearly told in Episode 2. Case closed ;)

As far as the solely-watching-on-TV viewers are concerned, there is no mystery here because it hasn't been introduced yet. Why? Because the producers almost certainly know that if they introduce it this early and don't reveal it until Season 6 or 7 or whatever, people will either lose interest or will simply work it out (especially if they are ever tempted to look at a fansite) and it will lose importance. I suspect there'll be a couple of nods at it and then something will happen a season or two down the road to raise the question properly for the TV viewers.

Edric Dayne telling Arya that Wylla was not Jon Snow's mother - an inverse of the book revelation - in S4 could do it. Or just have other characters mentioning that Jon Snow's mother was different people, like the guy on the Sisters in ADWD, just to get the audience speculating.

[Leuf]

TV is considerably less forgiving of extending mysteries or character arcs over a long period of time. By the time The X-Files got around to explaining WTF was going on with half its long-running arc plots eight to nine years in, most people had long since stopped giving a toss. A lot of people lost patience with Lost long before the ending as well, and that was only over six years.

I don't think this is applicable for two reasons. First, we're talking the end of ASOS here, so somewhere between 3-4 years not 6 to 8. Second and more importantly, the revelations you get at the end of ASOS aren't really answers to lingering mysteries. You thought you already knew those things. It just turns what you thought you knew upsidedown. Which is a good thing in that not only does it blow your mind, it makes you want to reread or rewatch what came before in light of what you learned.

[Melifeather]

I am still excited for the season 2 premier April 1st, but after watching the 9 clips from the first two episodes my excitement has diminished significantly because it looks like they're going to stray too far away from the books.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

I would like the crazy upped in Hedley's portrayal. I was annoyed with the "Aww, she had a miscarriage with Robert" in S1. I got tired of saying "But that didn't happen! She's a HUGE B!"

The casting of Renley still bugs me.

I want the show to be as close to the book as possible, but have questions that readers have, answered, (ex: Renley + Loras)

I am disappointed in the lack of Tully's and Reed's.

I think the Robb + Jeyne storyline is going to bug me.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I would like the crazy upped in Hedley's portrayal. I was annoyed with the "Aww, she had a miscarriage with Robert" in S1. I got tired of saying "But that didn't happen! She's a HUGE B!"

The casting of Renley still bugs me.

I want the show to be as close to the book as possible, but have questions that readers have, answered, (ex: Renley + Loras)

I am disappointed in the lack of Tully's and Reed's.

I think the Robb + Jeyne storyline is going to bug me.

Negative much? I for one am hoping that they keep the more nuanced Cersei - she's much more interesting than the stone-cold irredeemable bitch of the novels

[salt]

I would like the crazy upped in Hedley's portrayal. I was annoyed with the "Aww, she had a miscarriage with Robert" in S1. I got tired of saying "But that didn't happen! She's a HUGE B!"

The casting of Renley still bugs me.

I want the show to be as close to the book as possible, but have questions that readers have, answered, (ex: Renley + Loras)

I am disappointed in the lack of Tully's and Reed's.

I think the Robb + Jeyne storyline is going to bug me.

I agree with every single thing you said.

But obviously I'll still be watching every week ;). I just have to remember to treat the show as something independent of the books. Compare them too much and the show will always fall short.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Negative much? I for one am hoping that they keep the more nuanced Cersei - she's much more interesting than the stone-cold irredeemable bitch of the novels

?

and

I don't see her as interesting. Bored can't be interesting. The fact that she is a stone cold bitch and half crazy is very important when it comes to certain aspects of the series.

[Ramsay Gimp]

We have enough irredeemable monsters in these books. I want some more nuanced villains, please. Cersei had great potential as a chracter until GRRM decided that she didn't deserve any redeemable qualities (she isn't even very cunning in the books compared to other players in KL, only compared to Ned) or any moments of coolness that he grants to even worse characters (Ramsay at the end of ACOK, Euron's crowning, etc.)

She seems like a caricature at certain parts of the books