A Cersei Celebration!

[Fire Eater]

He's a member of the KG,sworn to protect the Royal family, if nothing else, he's breaking his oaths again.

Actually, he's doing more good by getting the surrenders of Riverrun and Raventree Hall than going to help Cersei, when there is nothing he can do. He has lost his sword hand, how can he save her? Do you expect him to lead an army into Baelor's Sept and rescue Cersei? That would be worse for Tommen's rule than just leaving her be as it would make them look like enemies of the re-armed Faith.

Back to the main topic, I find Cersei's POV chapters interesting, because of how comical she is with her sense of entitlement and her growing paranoia and denial. I did get a little snort when during her walk of shame, a little boy innocently said "That can't be the queen, she's saggy as my mum."

She thinks about her father, feeling he'll only be remembered as her father when compared to her role, and she doesn't know how right she is, he'll be mostly remembered as the father of Cersei the same way Viserys II was remembered mostly as the father of Aegon the Unworthy.

[Nymeria_Snow]

I can't think of one in particular, except maybe when she's inside the holdfast during Blackwater and really panicking. That's what makes her such a great and three-dimensional character for me- she thinks she's so strong and in control but it's all delusions. (esp. in comparison to other strong female characters)

[salt]

yes, long live Jaime for helping Bran open his third eye.... :ack:

How the scene in the tower Really Happened

"Well hello there, Bran. This is indeed an awkward situation. Lets you and I sit down and talk about what you're feeling right now, and I'll try to explain what you saw."

'Jaime wait! it is I, Bloodraven, communicating with you through ESP. You must push Bran out of the window!'

'Push an innocent child out a window? I could never do that!'

'But you'd be doing him a favor! Its the only way to open his third eye and set him on the path to becoming a magic tree, or something. You love trees, don't you Jaime?'

"Sigh...the things I do for love." *push*

'Jaime Lannister you are a gentleman and a scholar'

'Yes'

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

On sleeping with the Kettleblack, despite hating it:

That is perhaps the saddest thing I've read about Cersei. Wow. Christ, someone really fucked her up in terms of sex and self-esteem, and hell, judging others.

I agree, and I blame Tywin. It struck me as weird that she seems to think she's so good at ruling. (Isn't there an "if only father could see me now" line in AFFC?) Tywin based his ruling on instilling a varied mix of the ingredients fear, respect, and loyalty in his subjects and enemies alike, yet he seemed to have failed at teaching Cersei all of this. During the Kettleblack scene none of those ingredients were being instilled anywhere.

[Chelly]

Shame on you all! This is no true Cersei celebration without at least her best line in the entire series.I can't believe no one has mentioned this gem, yet.

Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs.

Love Cersei or hate her, it does not matter. You can't deny the awesomeness of these...um sentiments. There was even a thread in the AFfC forum dedicated to this oh so eloquently put memory.

[Buckwheat]

Actually, while Jaime is made to be a far more likable character, it was him and him alone who chose to throw Bran here. The idea that "Cersei actually pressured him," is fine, I guess, but it goes directly against the text. Cersei told Jaime that she didn't want to have him throw Bran, and thinks to herself in AFFC that she thought Jaime was idiotic to do so makes the idea that Cersei wanted Jaime to throw Bran rather weird.

I know that he was the one who decided to throw Brandon, actually I was comparing Jaime throwing him to Cersei killing Robert's children. Jaime was disgusted by the thought about killing children, Cersei was not. They both did it for love. But yes, Jaime is not redeemed wholly tilll he does somthing very good for Brandon.

[Buckwheat]

Love Cersei or hate her, it does not matter. You can't deny the awesomeness of these...um sentiments. There was even a thread in the AFfC forum dedicated to this oh so eloquently put memory.

:ack: :stillsick: But ... classic Cersei, yes.

[Serie]

'Jaime Lannister you are a gentleman and a scholar'

'Yes'

Yes!

:lmao:

lets admit it, Jaime looks cool just because he's the twin brother of Cersei.

[Currawong]

Jaime and Cersei's relationship was a mutually destructive, mutually sick, and mutually "loving" passion. Both claimed to love each other and did care for each other in a way; both are essientially selfish people unwilling to make true sacrifices for the other. Cersei "cheats on" Jaime; he abandons her when she needs him most out of anger at her infidelity. She has not lived up to his precocieved fantasy of her and he dumps her when she needs him most.

Jaime is certainly self sacrificing (giving up "everything" for Cersei as he thinks self righteously, even though "everything" he's given up is basically stuff he's never wanted (land and a lordship) and he basically had dreamed of being a knight his entire life) when he has the idea of Cersei that he loves in his head. He "gives everything for her," however, his sexual fidelity and other things are things Jaime chooses to do. He has a beautiful vision of "himself as the warrior and Cersei as the maiden." However, the moment this little fantasy is broken, he abandons Cersei when she needs him most.

The really disturbing thing for me was that he knew well of her cruelty, yet this was not in any way a dealbreaker for him. Her sexual infidelity was.

I have no problems with Cersei using sex to gain or maintain power and secure her political ends. Women have always done that - as others have pointed out, in both GRRM's world and RL, sex (+ good looks) has been one of their few weapons in a male-dominated society. It is one of the reasons Brienne stands in such contrast to Cersei, because those weapons are not available to her.

As for Jaime somehow ignoring Cersei's cruelty as regent, I can't see what he could have done. He was imprisoned during ACOK, and by the time he journeys back to KL minus a hand (he arrives after the Joffrey wedding), she is already queen regent and acting out her power fantasies. As her brother and LC of the KG, he does try to give her good practical and politically sensible advice about various things, which she completely ignores.

Yes, it was a long-term mutally destructive relationshop, but IMHO Cersei herself starts the rift by her reaction to the loss of his hand. It shows her shallowness: she doesn't love Jaime as a person, she loves him as a narcissistic reflection of herself, and as a tool. He returns to her, physically maimed and also unable to wield a sword and protect her, and she rejects and insults him. In terms of her character and general douchebaggery, mocking her twin's stump has to be one of her low points for me - she isn't just hurting/murdering someone distant from her, she is hurting her supposedly beloved twin. So after she rejects and insults him in various ways, it is no surprise to me that Jaime doesn't come galloping back to her rescue. Not only does he know that he can't be of use to her in any combat situation, but he still has his Lannister pride. If he wasn't good enough for her before, then he's not going to be good enough for her now.

Throughout the books, Cersie makes her own bed, literally and figuratively, and now she has to lie on it. If that bed is hard and uncomfortable, lacking proper bedclothes and a favourite bedmate, she only has herself to blame. Or, to use another metaphor, all the chickens are gradually coming home to roost.

I enjoy Cersei because she is often a study in how not to cope with adversity, and how to alienate those people who would otherwise have remained close to her and supported her.

[AvengerofWinterfell]

I would have to say killing Lady as well, though that scene also ruined my chances of respecting Robert. It was beyond cruel and completely uneccessary.

That and having sex with her brother over their dead son's dead body.

[Winter's Knight]

I would have to say killing Lady as well, though that scene also ruined my chances of respecting Robert. It was beyond cruel and completely uneccessary.

That and having sex with her brother over their dead son's dead body.

She protested violently against that though, and only gave in when Jaime refused to stop.

Side note: I was working in the kitchen and had the audiobooks playing. My roommate walked in just as Roy got to that part.

So much for getting him to read the books.

Edit: mamma mia, the mistakes I make.

[Currawong]

That and having sex with her brother over their dead son's dead body.

Definitely a squick moment for both of them.

[Red Raven]

I LOVE Cersei, she's a textbook example of, "If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me!"

Her inner monologue is one long hilarious stream of ridiculous snarks and insults; I always look forward to her chapters because I know I'll be entertained.

One of my favorite scenes is a more subtle one - the small council session where she planted a big financial land mine for herself: putting off the Iron Bank. Oopsie poopsie! She always harped on King Robert for being a neglectful oaf yet here she is neglecting one of her most important obligations and failing to understand the implications. Hee hee.

I would have to say killing Lady as well, though that scene also ruined my chances of respecting Robert. It was beyond cruel and completely uneccessary.

In terms of pure awfulness, that just squicked me out on every level most of all.

[Fire Eater]

I would have to say killing Lady as well, though that scene also ruined my chances of respecting Robert. It was beyond cruel and completely uneccessary.

That and having sex with her brother over their dead son's dead body.

Cruelty is one of the oldest ways of exemplifying power. It demonstrates the power the perpetrator has over another, and the powerlessness of the victim against the perpetrator.

[Castel]

I LOVE Cersei, she's a textbook example of, "If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me!"

Her inner monologue is one long hilarious stream of ridiculous snarks and insults; I always look forward to her chapters because I know I'll be entertained.

One of my favorite scenes is a more subtle one - the small council session where she planted a big financial land mine for herself: putting off the Iron Bank. Oopsie poopsie! She always harped on King Robert for being a neglectful oaf yet here she is neglecting one of her most important obligations and failing to understand the implications. Hee hee.

Yes, you would think that in a society that equates iron with violence and death and a king that sits on the Iron Throne, Cersei would know better than to ignore the Iron Bank of Braavos,home of the most badass group of assassins in the world.

[AvengerofWinterfell]

She protested violently against that though, and only gave in when Jaime refused to stop.

Side note: I was working in the kitchen and had the audiobooks playing. My roommate walked in just as Roy got to that part.

So much for getting him to read the books.

Edit: mamma mia, the mistakes I make.

She may have protested, but she was by no means raped. And I cant think of a sane woman who would have consensual sex (no matter how much she was seduced) while essentially staring at the corpse of her dead son. Especially not with her brother.

[nara]

"The things I do for love ..."

Only Cersei does not think about having to do it with disgust.

I know that he was the one who decided to throw Brandon, actually I was comparing Jaime throwing him to Cersei killing Robert's children. Jaime was disgusted by the thought about killing children, Cersei was not. They both did it for love. But yes, Jaime is not redeemed wholly tilll he does somthing very good for Brandon.

If you're talking about the killing of the bastards, I don't believe that Cersei thinks about this at all in her POVs. That's why there is still some doubt as to whether she, Joffrey, or someone else ordered it. (There's another thread on that subject.) If you're referring to "eating Robert's heirs" or the moon tea, surely there's a difference between stopping conception or having an abortion and throwing a 7 year old out the window!

She protested violently against that though, and only gave in when Jaime refused to stop.

Her protests were rather feeble, so my guess is that she had no real objections. Interestingly, they had sex after she saw Jaime's hand, so that clearly was not a turnoff. It was only when she became a constant drunk that she said mean things to Jaime about his hand. It's not an excuse for her behavior, but just an explanation. After her forced "rehab" in a cell, she goes back dreaming about Jaime as her husband...

[Buckwheat]

If you're talking about the killing of the bastards, I don't believe that Cersei thinks about this at all in her POVs. That's why there is still some doubt as to whether she, Joffrey, or someone else ordered it. (There's another thread on that subject.) If you're referring to "eating Robert's heirs" or the moon tea, surely there's a difference between stopping conception or having an abortion and throwing a 7 year old out the window!

I was not talking about stopping conception, but about killing of Barra and other bastards. There is not doubt that she ordered it in the books, Joffrey ordered it only in the series.

[Howling Mad]

Cersei started her run early - using baby Tyrion as a freakshow for her (IIRC Dornish) guests and twisting his manhood.

[Castel]

Cersei started her run early - using baby Tyrion as a freakshow for her (IIRC Dornish) guests and twisting his manhood.

And telling the milkmaid that she would get her tongue cut out because "cows don't need tongues, only teats".

And she was eight.