From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa

[Aslerys]

Well I know this is a bit of topic (after all Sansa loves songs) but everytime I hear After the Storm by Mumford & Sons it reminds me of Sansa!

I think it's a beautiful song and I really hope that " after the storm" Sansa could be happy again! ^_^

Or maybe I'm too optimistic... :laugh:

[Grail King]

The more I think about it the more I feel that Sansa will have to end Baelish's crimes without using the hairnet, too many people were there who saw Joffery die by strangulation so if she off Petyr the same way people will say she killed Joffery and due to her being "married" to Tyrion both would be implicated still.

Sansa will need to use her courtesies and manipulation skills ( which she's still learning ) to either off LF or manipulate someone else to do it and make it look like some sort of accident or robbery death, but refrain from using the hairnet. This is just my thinking as of now

As many of us stated, all the Stark kids will be important but I believe deeply that Sansa will be the one to bring House Stark back as the important house of not only the North but the realm, Bran and Jon have the protection of the realm as their priorities, Arya is their revenge weapon, and Rickon is the future prince, Sansa is the political force, for Westerous to servive the Starks need to be successful.

[the Scorpion Knight]

AM I the only one thinking Thats the LF unintenionally ..well how can I say it:

alayne stone resembles lyanna starjk more than he inteands

[Queen of Spades]

Now that I have read all the previous "From Pawn to Player" threads (and by the Sevens, they were great !), I can add some reflexions of mine. I will try not to repeat what has been said and discussed already, so this is not a new analysis, only some random thoughts that went through my mind while I was reading all the great posts by brashcandy, rapsie, and all the other contributors.

I apologize if it seems a bit Sandor-oriented, but the man is mentionned in almost all of her chapters ! (and he is my favourite character too !) :blush:

AGOT

Sansa II / Eddard VII

The famous scene between Sandor and Sansa has been analysed quite thoroughly, but it could be interesting to evaluate the impact it has on the girl by comparing her reaction to the tourney before and after Sandor's revelations.

In Sansa II (beginning of the tourney), Sansa is impressed by all the great knights : the Kingsguard, Bronze Yohn and his famous armor, Lord Beric... Sandor is easily dismissed among this brilliant compagny :

The Hound entered the lists as well, and so too the king's brother, handsome Lord Renly of Storm's End.

Yeah, Renly is so handsome, he gets a full line of titles B) and Sandor is ugly, so : not interesting.

Sandor Clegane and his immense brother, Ser Gregor the Mountain, seemed unstoppable as well, riding down one foe after the next in ferocious style.

Now we have scary Sandor, ferocious, and associated with his brother Gregor who just killed someone in front of her.

After that, we have the joust Renly/Sandor.

When Lord Renly climbed to his feet, the commons cheered wildly, for King Robert's handsome young brother was a great favorite. He handed the broken tine to his conqueror with a gracious bow. The Hound snorted and tossed the broken antler into the crowed

Again, Renly (despited being defeated) gets all the attention. He is handsome and gracious, whereas Sandor just...snorts ! :D

And of course, there is all her fangirling over Loras... :rolleyes:

Now compare to what happens the next day :

Sandor vs. Jaime :

Sansa was watching it all moist-eyes and eager.

Wood shattered and the Hound reeled, fighting to keep his seat. Sansa gasped.

Sansa said, "I knew the Hound would win."

She is totally supporting him. Sansa is indeed the first Sandor-fangirl ! :P

And please note that she is supporting ugly Sandor over handsome Jaime... quite a change for once !

Gregor vs. Loras :

"Father, don't let Ser Gregor hurt him," she said. Ned saw she was wearing the rose that Ser Loras had given her yesterday. Jory had told him about that as well.

"These are tourney lances," he told his daughter. "They are made to splinter on impact, so no one is hurt." Yet he remembered the dead boy in the cart with his cloak of crescent moons, and the words were raws in his throat.

I bet Sansa remembered the dead boy as well, along with Sandor description of his murderous brother ("Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to go."), and that is why she was so afraid for her dear Loras. Of course Gregor is scary enough just by his looks, but he gets even scarier after what Sandor told her.

And after that, there is the sooo cute :

"Is the Hound the champion now ?" Sansa asked Ned.

And on the same evening:

Jory brought Arya down to join them, and Sansa spoke to her sister pleasantly. "The tournament was magnificent," she sighed.

The first day may have been magnifiscent, but this day ? She has seen a giant madman savagely kill a horse, and nearly kill her dear Loras. :blink: There hasn't even been a final joust.

Is this the Sandor-fangirl speaking again ? (Or I am reading to much in this, and she was only speaking of the tournament in general, not only the second day)

Sansa III

"What did Gregor do ?" Arya asked.

"He burned down a holdfast and murdered a lot of people, women and children too."

Arya screwed up her face in a scowl. "Jaime Lannister murdered Jory and Heward, and Wyl, and the Hound murdered Mycah. Somebody should have beheaded them."

"It's not the same," Sansa said. "The Hound is Joffrey's sworn shield. Your butcher's boy attacked the prince."

I find this quote extremely interesting, for many reasons.

Parallel Sandor / Jaime :

It is the second time (but not the last) that the Hound and Jaime are associated. The first time was by Ned during the tourney where it is stated :

Ned Stark would have loved nothing so well as to see them both lose, but Sansa was watching it all moist-eyes and eager.

And later, when the Mad Huntsman brings Sandor to the BwB, there is a fleeting moment when they believe that he is Jaime :

"Lannister," said Arya. "I heard him say Lannister."

"Have they caught the Kingslayer?" Gendry wanted to know.

There are many similarities between these two men, but I'll come back to this later.

"It's not the same."

The first time I read this chapter, I thought she was comparing Sandor to Gregor : killing a butcher's boy is hardly the same as burning down a holdfast, I think we all agree.

Now I wish I could beat my head with a stick for being so dumb :bang: : of course she is comparing him to Jaime who murdered the Winterfell guards, whereas Sandor was acting on orders concerning Mycah.

I know this seems to contradict my previous paragraph, but this is Sansa speaking. So the important thing is Sansa standing for the Hound : he is not like the others.

Defending the Hound

Since their discussion the night of the tourney, Sansa is totally supporting Sandor. She was cheering for him during the tournament, and now she is standing for him against Arya. She is not afraid of him any more.

Note that as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she still judges people by their looks : Ser Ilyn is a "monster", Ser Loras is a "hero", and Lord Beric...

"Lord Beric is as much a hero as Ser Loras. He's ever so brave and gallant."

"I suppose," Sansa said doubtfully. Beric Dondarrion was handsome enough, but he was awfully old, almost twenty-two.

So to be a hero, you have to be handsome (and not too old... jeez, 22, man, you're like a grandpa ! :lol: ). This is still sweet AGOT-Sansa with her head full of songs...

However the Hound is the exception : he definitely is not handsome, and he is way older than Beric but still she defends him ! The Hound "isn't the same" as the others.

The sworn shield

"The Hound is Joffrey's sworn shield. Your butcher's boy attacked the prince."

(Sansa - AGOT)

"I was Joffrey's sworn shield. The butcher's boy attacked a prince of the blood."

(Sandor - ASOS)

I hate Sansa's lie about the butcher's boy, especially now, when it doesn't bring her anything (except an excuse for the Hound) and it is really mean to Arya. :angry:

But ... wow ! exactly the same words... if this is not another connection betwen the two of them. :leer:

(ACOK afterthoughts coming soon...)

[Caro99]

wonderful sandor-esc post, Queen of Spades!! :) hadn't noticed the last resemblance between sansa & sandor with how they defended the butcher's boy affair. as you said, it was nasty business but it's cute to see that they practically used the same words

[Lyanna Stark]

Sandor vs. Jaime :

She is totally supporting him. Sansa is indeed the first Sandor-fangirl ! :P

And please note that she is supporting ugly Sandor over handsome Jaime... quite a change for once !

She does the same later in ACOK or early ASOS when she does not believe all the talk that the Kettleblacks are better fighters than the Hound.

The conversation with Arya regarding Jaime killing the northmen and Sandor killing Mycah I previously took as Sansa with her head in the clouds is associating anything related to Joffrey with goodness, but I agree with you, she's actually defending Sandor here. I recently reread AGOT after years and years, and knowing about the later books really makes things jump out at you differently.

[Elba the Intoner]

Great insights Queen of Spades. Jaime and Sandor are compared quite a few times. This quote in particular bears further comment:

of course she is comparing him to Jaime who murdered the Winterfell guards, whereas Sandor was acting on orders concerning Mycah.

This also relates to the comments about Sansa hating Lannisters that PureGold and Brash discussed earlier. Handsome, golden haired Jaime, who is also a member of the King's Guard and who is described as the type of man Sansa in AGOT envisions as the ideal knight, is actually the first Lannister that Sansa comes to hate. After he confronts Ned and has Jory and the other Winterfell men killed, she thinks of him as wicked and she won't justify his actions as she does with the Hound. By the end of the fourth and fifth books we know that Jaime is looking for Sansa or having someone else look for her, and his story is becoming indirectly intertwined with Sansa's. So, it's very likely that Jaime could be the one to find Sansa, perhaps along with Brienne and maybe even Sandor. I just wonder how that dynamic could play out if Jaime is the one to find her/rescue her.

[1234567]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments on the other threads. I'm glad you've enjoyed the threads and all the discussion! And welcome to all the new posters. :cheers:

So, it's very likely that Jaime could be the one to find Sansa, perhaps along with Brienne and maybe even Sandor. I just wonder how that dynamic could play out if Jaime is the one to find her/rescue her.

The last chapter highlighted how guarded she is with Myranda and with Mya. Her experience with the Tyrells and LF's manipulations regarding who she can trust are not something either Jaime or Brienne are going to have taken into consideration. Jaime seems to think that no one trusts him because of Aerys, but Sansa is more likely not to trust him because of Jory and the Winterfell guards and the injury to her father and I think he has actually forgotten that incident. Also he is a Lannister. I doubt she will trust his intentions. Who this may hit the hardest is Brienne, as she actually has Sansa's best interests at heart, but may find that Sansa doesn't trust her at all. Sansa has learnt to be suspicious and not to trust people. In fact the only one I could see her trusting is Sandor (which would be a bloody big surprise to Brienne, Jaime and LF).

In terms of the last chapter, I think it says a lot about LF's judgement on Sansa's strengths, that he leaves her to get Sweetrobin down from the Eyrie and essentially shut up the Castle. In doing so he also improves other's opinions of her, which are again likely to help win the Vale to her cause after the great reveal.

However, while he seems to be good at testing and strengthening her abilities in terms of leadership and game playing, he does not seem to realize that she is also telling him what he wants to hear.

We also have another Cersei / Sansa comparison. LF describes Cersei as utterly predictable, and I think he also thinks that Sansa is predictable as well. He seems to assume that he is teaching her how to play the game from step 1, when our previous analysis shows that she was already learning the techniques to stay alive and is using them on him. So while Cersei is a piece who thinks she is playing, Sansa is a piece that had already begun to learn the essentials to play the game.

Raksha the Demon: Last Thread

So what does Sansa/Alayne mean when she thinks Master Coleman cares only for the boy, though, Father and I have larger concerns? Is it that Alayne believes that they must give the young lord a little of the risky medication to preserve the myth that little Lord Arryn can at least come down the mountain on his own feet rather than be carried, sleeping, the entire way, as he was (well, sleeping and nursing) when he went up the mountain in his mother's arms? Does she think that Master Coleman is exaggerating and that a little of the sweetmilk is necessary to preserve the dignity of Robert Arryn's rank and that it probably won't harm him?

Unfortunately, I am not sure. Sansa/Alayne is straddling a very definite line here. She is not associating the use of sweetmilk to keep up Robert's appearance and lordly dignity with her own safety, Sansa/Alayne seems to think that endangering Robert's life, or at the very least using a somewhat risky medicine, is necessary to further the important political schemes of her 'father' and herself. And that step up from colluding with Littlefinger to frame Marillion, a choice which Sansa seemed to make out of a sense of self-preservation (having to protect Littlefinger, because she had no one else to protect and help her and because she feared she could meet her aunt's fate if she did not), to risking the worsened health of an already fragile, sickly child to advance her and Littlefinger's "larger concerns", is new and ethically troubling, to say the least.

I agree that there is a dangerous line for Sansa in all of this, and whether she crosses it or not is yet to be seen. However I also see her reasoning behind it: men like LF are dismissed because they are weak physically. If the Lords realize how weak SR is, then they may indeed begin to form alliances with Harry the Heir, which currently LF does not want. It reminds me a bit of Henry the VIII's son, who despite being ill, was trotted out and made a show of being well. A succession crisis would not help Sansa or LF's plans. For their own safety, they need SR to be seen to be well.

[Maroucia]

Great insights Queen of Spades. Jaime and Sandor are compared quite a few times. This quote in particular bears further comment:

of course she is comparing him to Jaime who murdered the Winterfell guards, whereas Sandor was acting on orders concerning Mycah.

This also relates to the comments about Sansa hating Lannisters that PureGold and Brash discussed earlier. Handsome, golden haired Jaime, who is also a member of the King's Guard and who is described as the type of man Sansa in AGOT envisions as the ideal knight, is actually the first Lannister that Sansa comes to hate. After he confronts Ned and has Jory and the other Winterfell men killed, she thinks of him as wicked and she won't justify his actions as she does with the Hound. By the end of the fourth and fifth books we know that Jaime is looking for Sansa or having someone else look for her, and his story is becoming indirectly intertwined with Sansa's. So, it's very likely that Jaime could be the one to find Sansa, perhaps along with Brienne and maybe even Sandor. I just wonder how that dynamic could play out if Jaime is the one to find her/rescue her.

I’m definitely looking forward to that!!!

I’m sure Sansa would hate him at first, but if she spends some time with Jaime, open mind and compassionate as she is, she could look beyond her first impressions. She already did it with Sandor. The only problem is that Jaime killed Jory… and injured her father… :o

Anyway, we’ll see in times how things will turn out, but the situation in Westeros is due to extreme changes that will most likely be triggered by:

1. the Grims invasion
   
2. the possible arrival of Daenarys (I’m not even sure it will ever happen at this point, though)
   
3. a possible grey scale pandemic
   
4. the forthcoming attack of the Others
   
5. winter
   

In a situation as harsh as the one Westeros will most likely be going through very soon, I would think that the brightest thing to do would be to become more forgiving, if only to survive, since it’s easier to do it with more allies.

@ Grail King

I love your new avatar.

10: the number of times I’ve watched to riot scene.

1 000 000 000: the number of times I will most likely have watched it before next week’s episode… :drunk:

[Maroucia]

The last chapter highlighted how guarded she is with Myranda and with Mya. Her experience with the Tyrells and LF's manipulations regarding who she can trust are not something either Jaime or Brienne are going to have taken into consideration. Jaime seems to think that no one trusts him because of Aerys, but Sansa is more likely not to trust him because of Jory and the Winterfell guards and the injury to her father and I think he has actually forgotten that incident. Also he is a Lannister. I doubt she will trust his intentions. Who this may hit the hardest is Brienne, as she actually has Sansa's best interests at heart, but may find that Sansa doesn't trust her at all. Sansa has learnt to be suspicious and not to trust people. In fact the only one I could see her trusting is Sandor (which would be a bloody big surprise to Brienne, Jaime and LF).

Hey Rapsie, didn’t see your post before writing mine, we share similar thoughts on the Jaime matter.

I would like to add that, no matter how noble Brienne’s intentions are toward Sansa, the fact that she will most likely be with Jaime if/when she comes across Sansa won’t help her to gain her trust…

[Elba the Intoner]

I’m definitely looking forward to that!!!

I’m sure Sansa would hate him at first, but if she spends some time with Jaime, open mind and compassionate as she is, she could look beyond her first impressions. She already did it with Sandor. The only problem is that Jaime killed Jory… and injured her father… :o

Anyway, we’ll see in times how things will turn out, but the situation in Westeros is due to extreme changes that will most likely be triggered by:

1. the Grims invasion
   
2. the possible arrival of Daenarys (I’m not even sure it will ever happen at this point, though)
   
3. a possible grey scale pandemic
   
4. the forthcoming attack of the Others
   
5. winter
   

In a situation as harsh as the one Westeros will most likely be going through very soon, I would think that the brightest thing to do would be to become more forgiving, if only to survive, since it’s easier to do it with more allies.

@ Grail King

I love your new avatar.

10: the number of times I’ve watched to riot scene.

1 000 000 000: the number of times I will most likely have watched it before next week’s episode… :drunk:

Maroucia you crack me up :laugh:

[Opkio]

i know is a bit off topic, but i dont thiink sansa will marry harry and reveal herself as a stark thus winning the vale to the stark's cause. it seems to optimistic. In my opinion sansa might not even kill LF, i think someone else will do that for her.

now going back tothe topic, she def has grown a lot since book 1, however, i am still not sure what her outcome is going to be. she is becoming a player in the game, how good she will be, i guess only time will tell.

[Grail King]

I’m definitely looking forward to that!!!

I’m sure Sansa would hate him at first, but if she spends some time with Jaime, open mind and compassionate as she is, she could look beyond her first impressions. She already did it with Sandor. The only problem is that Jaime killed Jory… and injured her father… :o

Anyway, we’ll see in times how things will turn out, but the situation in Westeros is due to extreme changes that will most likely be triggered by:

1. the Grims invasion
   
2. the possible arrival of Daenarys (I’m not even sure it will ever happen at this point, though)
   
3. a possible grey scale pandemic
   
4. the forthcoming attack of the Others
   
5. winter
   

In a situation as harsh as the one Westeros will most likely be going through very soon, I would think that the brightest thing to do would be to become more forgiving, if only to survive, since it’s easier to do it with more allies.

@ Grail King

I love your new avatar.

10: the number of times I’ve watched to riot scene.

1 000 000 000: the number of times I will most likely have watched it before next week’s episode… :drunk:

I give the kudos to the artist, I have no talent for drawing or painting.

[1234567]

Hey Rapsie, didn’t see your post before writing mine, we share similar thoughts on the Jaime matter.

I would like to add that, no matter how noble Brienne’s intentions are toward Sansa, the fact that she will most likely be with Jaime if/when she comes across Sansa won’t help her to gain her trust…

:agree:

In someways it would be better for Jaime not to have anything to do with Brienne, and keep getting reports from afar. Personally though, I'm not sure if Brienne and Jaime will both survive UnCat. Jaime's quest for Honour, may get him killed.

Although it is interesting that Brienne said the Hound has Sansa, given their past history. :cool4:

[Lyanna Stark]

:agree:

In someways it would be better for Jaime not to have anything to do with Brienne, and keep getting reports from afar. Personally though, I'm not sure if Brienne and Jaime will both survive UnCat. Jaime's quest for Honour, may get him killed.

Although it is interesting that Brienne said the Hound has Sansa, given their past history. :cool4:

I know, the irony was not lost on me either. :)

What stands out more and more after the reread is that absolutely nobody picked up on them having any interaction apart from the formal. Joffrey is obviously too thick, it went totally under the radar for Littlefinger and even Tyrion missed it. We've not heard anything from Varys and I am not sure he would spend time listening in on a lowly retainer and a hostage. (Arya is told about it but reacts with disbelief and that's not until later either.)

Tyrion could possibly have realised something when the Hound went out on his own and picked up Sansa during the riot, but he was too busy scolding Joffrey to care, it seems. He also totally missed that it was Sandor who covered Sansa in his cloak when Joffrey had her stripped and beaten. Normally Tyrion is extremely perceptive, but maybe he just couldn't fathom this one, perhaps because he disliked the Hound himself. I wonder if at some point in the future, Tyrion will slap his forehead and go "OMG how could I be so blind!"

I agree with previous posters who think Sansa will not trust Jaime Lannister, and if Brienne shows up with him, Sansa would never "out" herself, not after what Jaime did to the Winterfell guards and her father. Unlike you guys, I am not 100% that she will automatically trust Sandor either should he show up. If she has heard about the massacre at Saltpans, she may be wary and wonder if he's gone completely bonkers while away. Even though it seems fairly certain he really does not want to become his brother, can Sansa afford to blindly trust in that and assume it was someone else? Especially since he is easy to recognise, it seems the evidence are pretty damning.

[Maroucia]

:agree:

In someways it would be better for Jaime not to have anything to do with Brienne, and keep getting reports from afar. Personally though, I'm not sure if Brienne and Jaime will both survive UnCat. Jaime's quest for Honour, may get him killed.

Although it is interesting that Brienne said the Hound has Sansa, given their past history. :cool4:

This, to me, is almost a tease from GRRM.

We know it’s not Sandor, but we would loooove it!

Anyway, I think it was an obvious thing to say for Brienne since she has been told before by others that Sansa was with the Hound, also the Hound’s spectra has been really present in the area where she’s at (because of the Saltpans massacre), and Brienne even fought against someone wearing his helmet, so it’s no wonder why she thought about him.

I wonder if at some point in the future, Tyrion will slap his forehead and go "OMG how could I be so blind!"

I live only for that.

I agree with previous posters who think Sansa will not trust Jaime Lannister, and if Brienne shows up with him, Sansa would never "out" herself, not after what Jaime did to the Winterfell guards and her father. Unlike you guys, I am not 100% that she will automatically trust Sandor either should he show up. If she has heard about the massacre at Saltpans, she may be wary and wonder if he's gone completely bonkers while away. Even though it seems fairly certain he really does not want to become his brother, can Sansa afford to blindly trust in that and assume it was someone else? Especially since he is easy to recognise, it seems the evidence are pretty damning.

It’s true that Sansa could come to be suspicious toward him because of all the false accusations that Sandor is facing at the moment, but I don’t think she’ll believe he did all those shits. I picture Sansa’s reaction when hearing about all those falsities, to be as the one she had when she heard some kitchen wenches gossip about Sandor becoming a craven after the BW and the Kettleback being better then him: she won’t believe it.

It’s true that she doesn’t know him that much, but she is able to feel him (getting esoteric, I know), their connection is strong; lets not forget he is her dire wolf replacement.

And also, it may come to a point where the people describing the massacres involving Sandor admit, maybe without even realising it, that all they saw was the helmet. The “Hound” never took it off. I would think that Sansa would certainly understand how a helmet is not a person.

[adreamer]

After reading and rereading Sansa so many times, i came to think that is kinda weird that Sansa's story is totaly devoid of magic. After Lady was killed, there is no magic at all in Sansa's life. This is somehow suprising, because pretty much every main POV character has come to interact with magic some way or another - all Stark kids without mentioning the skinchanging have some other magical experiances as well - John - Melisandre, Bran - Bloodraven, Arya - Faceless Men, etc. Even Cersei - Quiburn, Brienne - Lady Stonehart. Not to mention Dany who is on the other extemete, with too much magic surrounding her. I wonder why this is so. It's obviosly deliberate. I have the feeling that this is beneficial for Sansa.

Dany for example - I think all her power come from the dragons, but she still can't control them, and if there is no dragons, is she going to be a competent ruler? I don't think so (well i'm not Dany;s fen, so maybe i'm not totaly right). Quiate's prophecy - you can gone mad if you try to figure out who's who from the prophecy - pretty much everyone will fit one way or another.

Plus magic is another way that others can exert control on you - Melisandre - Mance through glamour.

So over and over i think magic is not a very good thing. I believe that Sansa being kept away from magic is important and she has some special role to play in this respect.

[voodooqueen126]

Great insights Queen of Spades. Jaime and Sandor are compared quite a few times. This quote in particular bears further comment:

of course she is comparing him to Jaime who murdered the Winterfell guards, whereas Sandor was acting on orders concerning Mycah.

This also relates to the comments about Sansa hating Lannisters that PureGold and Brash discussed earlier. Handsome, golden haired Jaime, who is also a member of the King's Guard and who is described as the type of man Sansa in AGOT envisions as the ideal knight, is actually the first Lannister that Sansa comes to hate. After he confronts Ned and has Jory and the other Winterfell men killed, she thinks of him as wicked and she won't justify his actions as she does with the Hound. By the end of the fourth and fifth books we know that Jaime is looking for Sansa or having someone else look for her, and his story is becoming indirectly intertwined with Sansa's. So, it's very likely that Jaime could be the one to find Sansa, perhaps along with Brienne and maybe even Sandor. I just wonder how that dynamic could play out if Jaime is the one to find her/rescue her.

I am glad someone else has noticed that the popular idea that Sansa would get along with Jaime has been proven to be ridiculous.

[Queen of Winter]

We're continuing the reread discussion?! Excellent! :thumbsup: B)

Looking forward to the final summaries...... :)

[Groat]

He's also playing with fire in that he desires Sansa for himself, trains her to be clever, perceptive and his accomplice, but him eventually getting her hinges very much on her not ever learning of how LF betrayed her father or sold her best friend into a horrendous arranged marriage. If you think about it on those terms, he really has orchestrated his own downfall, it's just a matter of time.

The relationship between LF and Sansa is so very interesting. LF is the ultimate manipulator, where as Sansa is the ultimate pawn. Sansa has been used and passed around so much that she has gotten really good at it, and LF is so used to having people do what he wants, I don't think he even realizes Sansa may develope motives of her own. I'm really excited to see Sansa get to the point where she can start to actually manipulate LF.