(Book Spoilers) GRRM's S3 Episode "Autumn Storms"

[DragonAge93]

Don't think PW will be season 3. IIRC, PW happens around 700 pages, and if season 3 is the first half of ASOS, it makes sense to end s3 with RW and the falling out of it, kind of like earlier seasons: fallout of Ned's death, fallout of Blackwater. Why follow up RW with PW, which will just overshadow it? Leave s3 on a note of sadness, and open season 4 with the PW, or maybe around episode 4 or 5 of s4 have the PW.

[CoolOff]

and if season 3 is the first half of ASOS

This isn't confirmed in any way, shape, or form. All we know is that all of ASOS won't be in S3.

[DragonAge93]

This isn't confirmed in any way, shape, or form. All we know is that all of ASOS won't be in S3.

Did you not notice the "if" in my sentence? And it has been confirmed by GRRM in a Comic-Con interview, where he said season 3 "roughly" covers the first half of ASoS.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Did you not notice the "if" in my sentence? And it has been confirmed by GRRM in a Comic-Con interview, where he said season 3 "roughly" covers the first half of ASoS.

And there is a lot of room in "roughly" as BOTH the RW and PW are in the second half of the book (confirmed by the fact that when SOS was split for in Europe neither were in the first part)...but the first half of the second half. It is a different story when the three kings (Balon, Robb, and Joffrey) are out of the way and I don't think they'll be able to resist 3 weddings, 3 leaches, 3 dead kings for season 3. Plus it gets Jack Gleeson out at the end of the season and he wants to go.

[A Little Bird]

GRRM has said on many occasions that the working title of the episode he wrote is Autumn Storms because it "rains a lot." It seemed pretty obvious in context that he was talking about The Rains of Castamere, and it is the RW episode. I don't know why there is still so much speculation about what the episode will be about. Its the RW, bank on it.

[Which Tyler]

Because... there's a very good chance that you're wrong.

Far more likely to be the previous episode, where it rains a lot (according to the book)

[CoolOff]

And of course the minor detail that GRRM himself has said that he isn't writing the RW.

[A Little Bird]

And of course the minor detail that GRRM himself has said that he isn't writing the RW.

Really? I haven't seen that

[Matt O'Sevens]

"Autumn Storms" could have something to do with when the Hound takes Arya away from the BWB. IIRC, that happens during a bad storm. RW will definitely happen in S3, either ep 9 or 10, IMO. D&D have been working towards that moment since they first read the series. I don't see them pushing it to S4.

[Sasha Steelsong]

GRRM has said on many occasions that the working title of the episode he wrote is Autumn Storms because it "rains a lot." It seemed pretty obvious in context that he was talking about The Rains of Castamere, and it is the RW episode. I don't know why there is still so much speculation about what the episode will be about. Its the RW, bank on it.

I disagree...I think it is the set-up for the RW...because remember Robb et al were delayed in getting to the wedding because of the awful rains that were over the Riverlands at that time, it is the same period where Arya is with the Hound. Between GRRM saying that he isn't writing the RW episode and the title, I think he's basically doing the set up to the RW and that the RW will be episode 8.

[The Red Lamb Chop]

One of my friends just read the RW about a month ago and hasn't picked her book up since, even though I told her to keep reading.

She said "I can't keep reading if all the good characters are going to keep dying and all the bad one's live." or something along those lines.

Seeing that it's going to be tough for even us to watch the RW in all its brutality, imagine how someone who has no idea of what to expect is just hit out of the blue with not only the deaths but the utter massacre of two major "good" character and then wait ten and a half months for any resolution. Ending a season with the RW is giving the the Lannisters a third victorious season end, so yes, to someone who hasn't read, it will seem very unfair. I don't think anybody on board with the show wants to torture viewers like this.

My vote is for ending with the PW. Granted it won't make up for the RW's tragedy, but it will give viewers a sense that the Lannisters aren't untouchable.

Also, we've already had the Joffrey-Margaery engagement. You can't just talk about it for a whole season. Something needs to happen.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Man, this debate about which season the Purple Wedding will be in is everywhere on the forums!

It's a good discussion topic, though, and it helps to fill the time between the next season and the next book in the series, so it's all good.

That said, I'm firmly for the P.W. occurring in season four. I see a lot of people saying that it is the natural climax to the story line in King's Landing for the upcoming season, but I have some problems with that. One, by definition, the P.W. is more of an anti-climax than a legitimate climax. Sure, Joffrey dies and the audience will love that, but compared to what happens to Robb, Catelyn, and the Northern armies... The kid basically chokes to death.

For me, I see the Purple Wedding working better as a jumping off point, similar to Bran being pushed out of the window in the very first episode of the series. There's a nice symmetry between those two events.

Basically, I see the fourth season story line in King's Landing being focused on the downfall of the Lannister family, starting with Joffrey's death in the first episode of the season.

That also allows for a better introduction to Oberyn Martell, possibly including a scene early in the episode of him leaving from Dorne, to establish that location and the characters we'll be seeing there (some of the Dornish material from AFfC). The dude is a straight boss, so I can definitely see D&D wanting to maximize the amount of screen time that character gets, not minimalize it by introducing him after the P.W. has already happened.

As far as how they could wrap up the rather insubstantial story line for King's Landing in season three without the P.W. ...I haven't really come up with a satisfactory solution to that, other than to allow the Lannister family another moment of victory. Another poster had mentioned delaying the marriage of Sansa and Tyrion until after the Red Wedding, and I quite like that idea. Perhaps the in-show logic could be that Joffrey shouldn't be married before they have decided who to marry Sansa off to, and with their 'victory' over the North it is decided that she'll wed Tyrion, to add even more insult to injury.

That also gives a logical explanation for why Joffrey and Maergery don't wed until the first episode of the fourth season. Let the impact of the Red Wedding remain - the audience will return just to see Joffrey and Tywin get their just desserts. And for every viewer who doesn't, several more will take their place once the audience "outrage" and the crazy reviews and comments and YouTube reaction videos hit the web.

If they want to end the season on a more optimistic note, major victories for Dany and Jon are the way to go. Their best material is in ASoS, so I expect that we'll see a major up-swing in both the quality of their scenes and the amount of screen time that these two characters will get. Then, in season four, it's all bad for the Lannister family and the audience gets to enjoy an entire season of their downfall.

When you add in the conspiring that the Martell family came to King's Landing to do, and the Kingsmoot revealing that Euron believes he has a horn that can control dragons, it works thematically to show that there are other powerful players still in this game. The remaining Stark children and Tyrion are scattered to the winds by the end of the season, which will make it all the more powerful when they return to prominence in the later seasons (as I'm sure they will in the last two books).

I've already written way too much about this, but when you're having a slow day at work I guess there isn't a whole lot else to do. Hopefully we'll start seeing some behind-the-scenes footage soon, or maybe even a teaser trailer, so we can add some more fuel to the speculation fire.

[freetickles]

imagine how someone who has no idea of what to expect is just hit out of the blue with not only the deaths but the utter massacre of two major "good" character and then wait ten and a half months for any resolution.

I don't think viewers will be as blindsided by the RW as we were as readers, as the show has hinted much more strongly at Robb's poor decision-making and its potential to have disastrous effects. I am guessing that they'll do the same in S3 and that when we meet up with Lord Frey again, it'll be tough for that actor not to show such a disdain for Robb that viewers will have a sense that he's as good as dead. That said, I agree your point the season on another Lannister victory and think that the PW will be in episode 10.

[Sasha Steelsong]

I don't think viewers will be as blindsided by the RW as we were as readers, as the show has hinted much more strongly at Robb's poor decision-making and its potential to have disastrous effects. I am guessing that they'll do the same in S3 and that when we meet up with Lord Frey again, it'll be tough for that actor not to show such a disdain for Robb that viewers will have a sense that he's as good as dead. That said, I agree your point the season on another Lannister victory and think that the PW will be in episode 10.

I both agree and disagree on whether the viewers will see it coming. I think they will see "something" coming, but won't expect the brutality of the RW. Cause it isn't just that Robb and the guests get killed, tents soaked with oil are dropped on thousands of Northern troops and they are burned to death. While I agree they will be expecting something, they won't be expecting the level of what happens. Which is why I think ending on it would be a mistake. Like you I think they will end with the PW and three dead kings at the end of season 3.

[King Tommen]

Yeah, I think some book readers are misremembering the lead-up to the RW. While you (and newbies) may feel at this moment at the end of Season 2 that Robb has set himself up for a fall, there are a few things that happen between now and the RW that make it appear that Robb is back on track which is what makes the RW such a kick in the balls. The Frey's appear to be placated by Edmure's marriage and Robb gets his groove back with his plan to retake the North, regroup at Greywater Watch and make Jon his heir. Any remaining tension about seeing the Frey's is then dissolved by the invoking of "guest rite" which is supposed to be the sacred truce which protects any harm from coming to you and that no one breaks, no matter how slimy they are. The only thing that anyone seems to be worried about is if Walder will say some dickish things during the wedding to get his final licks in. No one is expecting anything more than this which is why it's such a shock.

Unless newbies have been spoiled by others in the know, then there shouldn't be any issues with them being shocked and repulsed by what happens.

[Moshroom]

I really hope, they will keep Catelyn telling Robb to make sure to eat bread and salt and then Rob does and everyone feels relieved and then BAM :D

That said, if PW is at the end of S3, will they inolve stuff from AFFC and ADWD in S4? Because they wouldn't have a lot of stuff to use just from ASOS and they can't exclude characters like Jon and Tyrion in the AFFC-Season like in the books because that would definitely make a lot of viewers stop watching and might even result in actors quitting or something.

On the other hand, I really doubt that just having the RW in S3 and PW in S4 will be benefcial as well... plus with the PW in S3, there will be more actors who are done and they can focus on a new cast for Dorne etc.

And I think the Red Viper might be in S3 but not be announced so they don't give too much of the storyline away (every reader would just know that the PW is included in S3) and if he just appears in E9 or something, they don't have to announce him like TQOT or Mance who will have way more screentime

[Khal-a-bunga]

If Oberyn had been cast, we'd know it. It's a flashy role that requires only a short time commitment, so D&D will likely go after a "name" actor for the part. A casting like that would never be held back to save a "surprise" reveal when the episode airs, it would be used to garner hype for the show. Besides, to a non-reader, the name doesn't mean anything. To those who have already read the books, there isn't any surprise to be had.

[Cruella]

I dunno, I had a very strong feeling that things were going pear-shaped for Robb in the books, too. He lost so many people, Freys, Karstarks, everything was going against him. In a way, RW was almost relief, I hate that feeling of waiting of a shoe to drop and characters going on despite new and new hits. But I wondered "how on Earth is Martin going to get them out of this? It's going to be ridiculous at this point" instead of "How's he going to massacre Northern forces?"

TV viewers do seem convinced that Robb is toast, but I agree, brutality of the whole thing is bound to pack a punch.

[Lannister Hamster]

I think its important to remember that the North and therefore Rob also still have to capture Harrenhall this year - which is a major castle and will be seen as a big win for him and give the impression that things are back on track and going well again, despite his marriage.

[Scottish Natural Water]

The thing I am mostly excited about this episode for, is actually seeing some Autumn storms. I find nothing more relaxing than watching scenes like that, in a dark room - especially actually in Autumn, haha.