(Book Spoilers) GRRM's S3 Episode "Autumn Storms"

[Arkash]

I agree !

Looking forward to see Robb and his army's march under the raint through the riverlands and hearing the rain hitting the tents... will be excellent !

[King Tommen]

I think its important to remember that the North and therefore Rob also still have to capture Harrenhall this year - which is a major castle and will be seen as a big win for him and give the impression that things are back on track and going well again, despite his marriage.

I'm going to say that the show isn't going to bother with that as they've skipped weasel soup and Arya is long gone from Harrenhall. The location serves no purpose anymore. The constant changing of the ownership of Harrenhall is needlessly confusing in the books which is most likely why it's been excised from the show. My guess is that Roose will remain close with Robb leading up to the RW to build up their interactions more. It's possible that Roose will go off on his own (my theory was Robb would send him as an emissary to the Frey's to offer up the Edmure proposal) so there is the possibility that he can run into Vargo's camp where they would be holding Jaime and Brienne. Then you can have some of the conversations between those characters that were held in ASOS but without Harrenhall being involved. Or they may not bother with Roose and Jaime meeting at all and we can have "Tywin Lannister sends his regards" as the line instead (which actually makes more sense).

Also remember that in the show universe, the Mountain is in charge at Harrenhall so any kind of Northern assault would involve taking him out which I don't think they're likely to do.

With regards to thinking Robb is doomed, I think the feeling I got at this point was that he wasn't going to be able to take the Iron Throne if he kept doing what he was doing in the Riverlands with all the defections from his camp and the consolidation of power between the Lannisters and Tyrells. But the scene where he decides to change course and retake the North with a decisive and well thought out plan seemed to be inspired and was also something that his men were very much on board with (because they'd also be going home). It was very much positioned as a turning point for him and the logical next step for his reign as King in the North. He appeared to be making a brilliant tactical move that got him out of the spiral he was in sitting around at Riverrun. All he needed to do was stop off quickly at the Twins for the wedding and not piss off Walder too much and they would be on their way to winning a war that seemed doable (the Ironborn occupying Moat Cailin wouldn't put up too much of a fight against Robb's army). I don't see how any reader or viewer with no prior knowledge would feel that Robb was done for going into the wedding.

[DragonAge93]

I hope for a lot of rain in this episode. If the rain isn't present, it'll just ruin the mood of the scene(s) leading up to the RW.

[OnionLord]

I'm going to say that the show isn't going to bother with that as they've skipped weasel soup and Arya is long gone from Harrenhall. The location serves no purpose anymore.

Well they already built a set for it, they might as well get some more use out of it. And cutting out Roose and Jaime/Brienne in Harrenhall would be cutting out some of the best scenes in the book. I don't see why Robb couldn't just send Roose to retake Harrenhall in the first couple of episodes, maybe Roose convinces Robb he can persuade Vargo to their side (he's lost the Freys at this point so he needs all the allies he can get).

[King Tommen]

Well they already built a set for it, they might as well get some more use out of it. And cutting out Roose and Jaime/Brienne in Harrenhall would be cutting out some of the best scenes in the book. I don't see why Robb couldn't just send Roose to retake Harrenhall in the first couple of episodes, maybe Roose convinces Robb he can persuade Vargo to their side (he's lost the Freys at this point so he needs all the allies he can get).

I don't think you base decisions on shooting scenes by saying that you should get more use out of your previous season's sets.

What exactly is the point of Roose being at Harrenhall if Arya is not there as she is in the books? How are they taking a castle that size by force? They didn't have Weasel soup and the Bloody Mummers are no where to be found. The ship has sailed and that should have been very apparent when Arya left at the end of Season 2.

The scenes with Jaime and Roose can take place at any indeterminate place. The fact that they are at Harrenhall during ASOS has no bearing on the conversations or the logistics. Vargo needs to capture Jaime and Brienne out in the woods and cut Jaime's hand off. Jaime somehow has to get away eventually. If he interacts with Roose in the meantime, great. But it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. Most of the good stuff is in the Jaime and Brienne conversations which again, can happen anywhere.

I think book fans are really just wanting to ensure the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" line is intact and believe that in order for that to happen, Roose and Jaime need to be at Harrenhall. There's a lot of different ways this can be accomplished. At the same time "Tywin Lannister sends his regards" is a much more logical line so they might go in that direction as well and not bother with Roose and Jaime meeting at all.

[Lannister Hamster]

I'm going to say that the show isn't going to bother with that as they've skipped weasel soup and Arya is long gone from Harrenhall. The location serves no purpose anymore. The constant changing of the ownership of Harrenhall is needlessly confusing in the books which is most likely why it's been excised from the show. My guess is that Roose will remain close with Robb leading up to the RW to build up their interactions more. It's possible that Roose will go off on his own (my theory was Robb would send him as an emissary to the Frey's to offer up the Edmure proposal) so there is the possibility that he can run into Vargo's camp where they would be holding Jaime and Brienne. Then you can have some of the conversations between those characters that were held in ASOS but without Harrenhall being involved. Or they may not bother with Roose and Jaime meeting at all and we can have "Tywin Lannister sends his regards" as the line instead (which actually makes more sense).

Also remember that in the show universe, the Mountain is in charge at Harrenhall so any kind of Northern assault would involve taking him out which I don't think they're likely to do.

With regards to thinking Robb is doomed, I think the feeling I got at this point was that he wasn't going to be able to take the Iron Throne if he kept doing what he was doing in the Riverlands with all the defections from his camp and the consolidation of power between the Lannisters and Tyrells. But the scene where he decides to change course and retake the North with a decisive and well thought out plan seemed to be inspired and was also something that his men were very much on board with (because they'd also be going home). It was very much positioned as a turning point for him and the logical next step for his reign as King in the North. He appeared to be making a brilliant tactical move that got him out of the spiral he was in sitting around at Riverrun. All he needed to do was stop off quickly at the Twins for the wedding and not piss off Walder too much and they would be on their way to winning a war that seemed doable (the Ironborn occupying Moat Cailin wouldn't put up too much of a fight against Robb's army). I don't see how any reader or viewer with no prior knowledge would feel that Robb was done for going into the wedding.

They can still win Harrenhall without the Mountain dying. He can just escape.

They don't even have to show the battle on tv, just have Rob sending Bolton to do it and the next episode he gets a report that they won.

They don't have to do Jaime and Brienne at Harrenhall just at another nameless location, but I think the tv series will be better served by keeping Harrenhall as a prominent location as it is a major castle and too many places would get confusing.

When reading the book I had the sense that Rob was a heavy underdog and would need nothing short of a miracle to pull off the overall victory. Winning Harrenhall would give the sense that his underdog campaign is still viable.

[Which Tyler]

I think book fans are really just wanting to ensure the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" line is intact and believe that in order for that to happen, Roose and Jaime need to be at Harrenhall. There's a lot of different ways this can be accomplished. At the same time "Tywin Lannister sends his regards" is a much more logical line so they might go in that direction as well and not bother with Roose and Jaime meeting at all.

I think there's also a large element (about 60%) who want to see Jaime getting out of his bath

[Sasha Steelsong]

I think there's also a large element (about 60%) who want to see Jaime getting out of his bath

Alright...I'll buy that as a reason to argue for Haranhall.

However another castle could have and equally usable bathhouse. Cause the key in that whole thing is the bath. :D

[nepaliman_7]

Bread and Salt would be a great name for a Red Wedding episode.

[I hate Dorn]

I think episode 7 will feature, among other things, Jaime telling Brienne the truth about his killing of the Mad King; Arya meeting Dondarion; Dondarion's duel with the Hound; and Jon's escape, with the help of Summer

....BTW, non-readers will ultimately be upset, I think, because they will expect the reason Bran and Jon are so close, geographically, is for some impending emotional reunion. They should, in the words of Wesley from The Princess Bride, "get used to disappointment"

[freetickles]

I think episode 7 will feature, among other things, Jaime telling Brienne the truth about his killing of the Mad King; Arya meeting Dondarion; Dondarion's duel with the Hound; and Jon's escape, with the help of Summer

....BTW, non-readers will ultimately be upset, I think, because they will expect the reason Bran and Jon are so close, geographically, is for some impending emotional reunion. They should, in the words of Wesley from The Princess Bride, "get used to disappointment"

You may be right on the timing of Jon's escape, but for the others, the writers have a lot of flexibility on where to put those.

I think you're right about non-readers becoming upset this season. aSoS was definitely when I eventually got used to disappointment, partly in wanting Jon and Bran to meet up, and in some other arcs too but particularly in the case of Arya's arc. From the end of aGoT I couldn't wait for her to meet back up with her family and it was with her arc in aSoS that I eventually came to accept how GRRM tortures us.... and how perfect it is.

[gogorath]

I think episode 7 will feature, among other things, Jaime telling Brienne the truth about his killing of the Mad King; Arya meeting Dondarion; Dondarion's duel with the Hound; and Jon's escape, with the help of Summer

....BTW, non-readers will ultimately be upset, I think, because they will expect the reason Bran and Jon are so close, geographically, is for some impending emotional reunion. They should, in the words of Wesley from The Princess Bride, "get used to disappointment"

I hunk Queenscrown is there, but I wonder if Arya and the Hound won't already have left Beric.

I'm excited for Martin + McLaren here.

[Lannister Hamster]

I still think Queenscrown is going to be the season finale. Regardless of when it appears chronologically in the books.

I think Mormont might die in episode 7 though.

Arya will meet Dondarrion earlier in the season, otherwise this major character is going to get about 2 episodes of screen time, but he could fight the hound here.

[protar]

I still think Queenscrown is going to be the season finale. Regardless of when it appears chronologically in the books.

I think Mormont might die in episode 7 though.

Arya will meet Dondarrion earlier in the season, otherwise this major character is going to get about 2 episodes of screen time, but he could fight the hound here.

Not going to happen. Queenscrown is not suitable as a finale. It's a dramatic event but it doesn't reach the levels of the Dragons hatching, Ned's death, the BW or the WW's marching. We also know that we'll be seeing the Wall by season's end because Pyp is confirmed to reapear. And furthermore, what would Bran and Jon be doing for a whole season? Jon's time with the wildlings could likely be stretched over an entire season, but I feel it would be another season of nothing going on BTW (Which is the feeling of the Non-readers unfortunately.). And they've already given Ygritte so much screen time with Jon. It might have completely ruined Jon's arc in S2 but at least they can make the most of it and give Jon's S3 arc a headstart. Bran is a bigger problem. What exactly do you propose he does all season? If QC is in it's proper place in E7, Bran has just an enough material (and even that's with a couple of skipped episodes.) to get a proper arc. If it's in E10 you're adding another three episodes that will either have to be given filler material (which will doubtless be of poor quality.), or have nothing going on with Bran (Unsatisfactory.).

[Jolene Brown]

I think having Roose take Harrenhall makes sense b/c they are trying to give him a more prominant role to make his betrayal at the RW a bigger deal. So he needs to achieve something. Also, I do think the Jaime/Brienne scenes will make more of an impact when they are set in an important location than if they take place at some random camp in the woods. And logistics do play a role - and if they have a great set, and there are scenes in the book set there, why NOT use it? People like having familiar locations when they watch a tv show. There is also the bear pit scene. I'm not holding my breath for a bear, but that scene is way too important for them not to do something that is at least fairly similar and gets the gist of it. Again, it would make more impact if there is some kind of fight in some kind of pit located at some kind of castle. It gives it more scale and grandeur. This is one area in which I do (for now) have faith in D & D. It just makes sense to use Harrenhall in season 3, as it was already a prominent part of season 2 and viewers are used to it and thinking of it as a reasonably significant place.

[Lannister Hamster]

Not going to happen. Queenscrown is not suitable as a finale. It's a dramatic event but it doesn't reach the levels of the Dragons hatching, Ned's death, the BW or the WW's marching. We also know that we'll be seeing the Wall by season's end because Pyp is confirmed to reapear. And furthermore, what would Bran and Jon be doing for a whole season? Jon's time with the wildlings could likely be stretched over an entire season, but I feel it would be another season of nothing going on BTW (Which is the feeling of the Non-readers unfortunately.). And they've already given Ygritte so much screen time with Jon. It might have completely ruined Jon's arc in S2 but at least they can make the most of it and give Jon's S3 arc a headstart. Bran is a bigger problem. What exactly do you propose he does all season? If QC is in it's proper place in E7, Bran has just an enough material (and even that's with a couple of skipped episodes.) to get a proper arc. If it's in E10 you're adding another three episodes that will either have to be given filler material (which will doubtless be of poor quality.), or have nothing going on with Bran (Unsatisfactory.).

I think having the two Starks crossing paths and Summer helping Jon escape the wildlings is a momentous enough occasion for the Season finale.

I can see the battle at Castle Black working as a season finale as well but it would mean Bran meeting Sam and Coldhands would be his season finale and I think in the bigger picture Sam being saved from the Wights by a mysterious figure who can control ravens (revealed to be Coldhands in Season 4) and Bran using Summer to save Jon at Queenscrown is better if you look at the bigger picture.

I think a storyline of Jon falling in love with Ygritte, sympathising with the Wildlings who are also on the run from the WW, struggling internally whether to break his vows and stay with Ygritte and then finally in the end running away from her, his love, to go back to the Wildlings as Summer, who Bran is controlling for the first time saves him is suitable for Season 3 and also a season finale. I might not have done it justice, but in my mind its pretty huge.

[protar]

I think having the two Starks crossing paths and Summer helping Jon escape the wildlings is a momentous enough occasion for the Season finale.

I can see the battle at Castle Black working as a season finale as well but it would mean Bran meeting Sam and Coldhands would be his season finale and I think in the bigger picture Sam being saved from the Wights by a mysterious figure who can control ravens (revealed to be Coldhands in Season 4) and Bran using Summer to save Jon at Queenscrown is better if you look at the bigger picture.

I think a storyline of Jon falling in love with Ygritte, sympathising with the Wildlings who are also on the run from the WW, struggling internally whether to break his vows and stay with Ygritte and then finally in the end running away from her, his love, to go back to the Wildlings as Summer, who Bran is controlling for the first time saves him is suitable for Season 3 and also a season finale. I might not have done it justice, but in my mind its pretty huge.

No it isn't suitable for the season finale. So far each season has ended with two massive game-changing events that promise to completely change the story going forwards. QC is dramatic, but it doesn't really shake things up, and the implications of the event only really effect Jon (Bran is just there really, it's not a major turning point in his arc.

And I disagree that your option is better "for the bigger picture." How exactly? You haven't said anything substantial there you've just basically dismissed my argument and said yours is better.

Also if you're so caught up about Jon's arc with Ygritte and the wildlings, then the the battle of CB more completely finishes this off as we see him joining the wildlings, falling in love with Ygritte, angsting over his loyalties, making his choice and then paying the consequences (Ygritte's death.). You also haven't told me what Bran will be doing for 10 episodes.

Can I also just clarify something? Do you want QC to be the finale of Jon and Bran's arc, or the overall season finale? Well anyway it's all completely moot because it's been CONFIRMED that we'll be at the Wall by the end of the season. Something else you ignored.

[Brandon Martell]

You also haven't told me what Bran will be doing for 10 episodes.

I agree that season 3 will end in Castle Black, but Bran doesn't have much story in SoS anyway. He just goes to Queenscrown, then they go to the Nightfort and from there everything happens fast. Good thing they delayed Bran meeting the Reeds to season 3, since otherwise there would be barely anything for season 3 from Bran's story.

[protar]

I agree that season 3 will end in Castle Black, but Bran doesn't have much story in SoS anyway. He just goes to Queenscrown, then they go to the Nightfort and from there everything happens fast. Good thing they delayed Bran meeting the Reeds to season 3, since otherwise there would be barely anything for season 3 from Bran's story.

Exactly my point. If he's got hardly any material as it is, what's padding out his arc with another 3 episodes gonna do? I did in fact have an outline for how Bran's arc could go.

E1: Doesn't appear

E2: Travelling with Osha, Rickon, Hodor and Direwolves. Meets the Reeds who tell him they will take him to the 3EC.

E3: Travelling north now. Meera tells the story of The KOTLT.

E4: Doesn't appear

E5: Doesn't appear

E6: In the Flint Mountains, meets with the Liddle.

E7: Queenscrown

E8: Worrying about Summer being wounded from Queenscrown. Summer limps back to the group

E9 Drawing near the Wall. Osha doesn't want to go beyond so parts with Rickon and Shaggydog.

E10: At the NF, meets Sam who takes him to the Black Gate

Which is a decent, if not massively substantial arc. The audience doesn't expect masses out of him anyway.

[protar]

Double