(Book Spoilers) GRRM's S3 Episode "Autumn Storms"

[Longspear Ryk]

lol if the red wedding happens as the cliffhanger and people stop watching the show their shitty viewers anyway....

[Valkyrja]

Good points about the RW and the viewers........I've just taken it for granted that people will be pissed and many will stop watching, regardless of the timing of the event. But, it could definitely make a difference. Perhaps both the Red and Purple Weddings happening in the same season would feel more like 'tragedy' and then 'yay, revenge!', rather than have the tragedy at the end of the season with an entire year's wait until the 'revenge'.

Sometimes it is difficult to put myself in a non-book-readers shoes, seeing as I've known this story for over a decade now......sigh......

[iheartseverus]

lol if the red wedding happens as the cliffhanger and people stop watching the show their shitty viewers anyway....

Nah, not so. Many, many book readers over the years have said virtually the same thing--after reading RW, they threw the book across the room and walked away from the series, appalled and disgusted beyond what they had ever wanted to experience. Many came back later to sit down and read the rest, but no question that many others did not. RW is horrific, its sickening, its watching our 'friends' the Starks, after all that good family's been through already, butchered and their bodies descecrated right in front of us, while we sit there having to watch, and can do nothing. And while Ayra is right outside, after having been through so much herself, just about to finally be reunited with her mother.

I don't know where D and D are going to put the RW in the series, but no question in my mind they're working out the horrendous impact it will have on viewers. And I agree with those who've said they've got to follow it up with 'good' or 'happy' happenings

[DirtyRobes]

Good points about the RW and the viewers........I've just taken it for granted that people will be pissed and many will stop watching, regardless of the timing of the event. But, it could definitely make a difference. Perhaps both the Red and Purple Weddings happening in the same season would feel more like 'tragedy' and then 'yay, revenge!', rather than have the tragedy at the end of the season with an entire year's wait until the 'revenge'.

Sometimes it is difficult to put myself in a non-book-readers shoes, seeing as I've known this story for over a decade now......sigh......

I highly doubt we'll get the RW and the PW in a single season simply because it would seem Soo rushed in 10 episodes(isnt sansa's wedding inbetween?) I think season 3 will be really interesting from a non-reader perspective if it Does end in the RW(not to mention there's plenty of cliffhangers around it like Arya). Imagine a show This big killing that many main characters in a finale, ppl will go Mental on social media and news sites. I also get the feeling that season 3 will really feel like a Stark season(returning home to the North) and then when ppl Do return for Season 4 Hating on those Awful Lannisters more than ever, we have a whole season devoted to their downfall!!!

They may very well fear loosing some viewership after the RW(espec if its the cliffhanger/final scene) but I think by then ppl are 3 years devoted to these characters + its incredible story telling. I also think season 4 will be Chock full of Lannister destruction that viewers will be pleased!

[Winterfell is Burning]

Well, there are a lot of storms before the RW, so I'm thinking this is the episode before it. Plus, everyone is expecting shit to go down in episode 9 by now, so viewers that haven't read the book will be shocked, thinking the wedding is just a prelude to something.

[Jolene Brown]

I like the idea of the RW happening as early as episode 7. More unpredictable that way, and a lot of the set-up is already done. My biggest bit of confusion is how they will marry Robb off - if they were going by the books, he should actually be married already, and there is just no momentum toward marriage between him and Talisa that I can see. They also haven't announced any Freys to be cast in season 3. I think he needs at least 1-2 Freys nearby to get pissed off after they hear about the marriage.

[J_Crews]

"Autumn Storms," I think refers to the storm that is raging as Balon dies, the Queenscrown stuff occurs, Arya/Hound crossing the flooded river by ferry, Robb/Catelyn et al. on their way to the Twins, etc.. I look for the RW to be in ep. 8 or 9. It'll, for sure, be in season 3. As someone else said, there are 3 weddings in ASoS, but -- more importantly -- there are 3 separate events that could each serve as season climaxes; they're not going to smoosh them all close together. In fact, if they could, I bet they'd spread them over 3 seasons, but the timing of events isn't going to allow for that. These climax-worthy events are, in chronological order:

The Red Wedding

The Purple Wedding

Tyrion killing Tywin and escaping

So, I see it playing-out thusly: RW in season 3; PW about midway through season 4; followed by Tyrion's trial spread-out over several eps (he demands trial-by-combat and Oberyn steps-up as his champion as the cliffhanger at the end of ep. 7 -- Oberyn/Mountain duel in ep. 8); then the 3rd event listed above in season 4 ep 9.

[Bastard of Boston]

Autumn storms were referenced twice in SoS. Once when Tyrion was given the Master of Coin title, and Littlefinger commented about autumn storms when discussing his departure to marry Lysa. The second was when Davos was captive on Dragonstone, where he wondered if the autumn storms had begun yet.

[gogorath]

If you think of merely the KL/Robb storyline, the RW should occur in season 3.

Arrival of the Tyrells/All the Margaery/Sansa detail

Tyrion/Sansa Wedding

The Dontos Plot

--The RW--

Oberyn Arrives

The Purple Wedding

The Trial

Oberyn and Gregor Fight

Tyrion's Escape

Tyrion's escape is almost certain to be the Season 4 finale for Tyrion, etc. (So Ep 9/10).

Oberyn's not cast yet for 3 and if he's not, it'd be hard to have the Purple Wedding in Season 3.

Then factor in that both the attack on Castle Black from the south AND Dany at Astapor are likely Season 3 climaxes as well...

And I can't see the RW not being in Season 3 and I can't see the PW being in Season 3.

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So, Season 3/4

KL/Robb: Tyrion's Wedding. RW/PW, Sansa in the Vale, RV v Gregor, Tyrion's Escape & LF and Lysa

Dany: Astapor/Yunkai and Mereen (Not sure about this one; perhaps with Daario in, Yunkai moves up?)

Jon: Coming south, ending with Castle Black/The attack on the Wall from the North, Lord Commander

Bran: Not really two seasons worth...could drag it out. Sigh.

Arya: Beric & the Hound, RW/Polliver, Travels with the Hound, the Ship, perhaps arriving in Braavos

Stannis & Co: Davos freed, deciding to be a King/mostly gone, attack on the Wall from the North

Brienne and Jaime: The Hand, The Bear/The scene in the Sept, Tyrion plotline & being KC - what does Brienne do?

It's jam-packed with big scenes.

[DaveSumm]

"Autumn Storms," I think refers to the storm that is raging as Balon dies, the Queenscrown stuff occurs, Arya/Hound crossing the flooded river by ferry, Robb/Catelyn et al. on their way to the Twins, etc.. I look for the RW to be in ep. 8 or 9. It'll, for sure, be in season 3.

Bingo. Let's not try and be too clever about reading into the title, maybe it refers to the big storm that happens........in autumn........at around the right place in the book.

This puts Jon returning to Castle Black quite early, but I don't see that that matters. I reckon they'll switch the rest of his stuff around: gets imprisoned by Slynt as S3 ending, then becomes Lord Commander, THEN faces the wildling armies end of Season 4.

[J_Crews]

Bingo. Let's not try and be too clever about reading into the title, maybe it refers to the big storm that happens........in autumn........at around the right place in the book.

This puts Jon returning to Castle Black quite early, but I don't see that that matters. I reckon they'll switch the rest of his stuff around: gets imprisoned by Slynt as S3 ending, then becomes Lord Commander, THEN faces the wildling armies end of Season 4.

Yeah, it'll be something like that. I think what's throwing people off is that the RW occurs about 2/3 of the way through ASoS, so they can't see how it'll be in season 3. I think they're gonna make it happen though, one way or another. It's a perfect climax for the season -- TV gold.

[jaqenhgar]

I think they're going to split a storm of swords into two seasons... ep. 9 or 10 is too early for the red wedding!

[The Monkey]

I'm almost certain it's gonna be the storm around Queenscrown and the near-meeting of Jon and Bran. It was, however, a storm that covered most of the north of Westeros, and it could be used an artistic device to connect the different character arcs (as the comet was used in S2E1) as to have a lot of characters affected by that storm. IIRC, Robb, Catelyn, Arya, Jon and Bran all experienced the storm. Hell, they can even have that storm be the one that kills Balon Greyjoy as the climax of the storm and of the episode.

[J_Crews]

I think they're going to split a storm of swords into two seasons... ep. 9 or 10 is too early for the red wedding!

They're definitely splitting it, but the RW will be the climax of season 3. Bank on it. They aren't just going to take the book, divide it in half, and say, "Okay, there's our season 3 and season 4." I think ASoS material will make-up all of season 3 and *MOST* of season 4; but that season 4 will also include early elements from AFfC and ADwD and new, original filler material.

Name me one event from the literal first-half of ASoS that deserves to be the climax of a TV season. Do you really think they're stupid enough to pack the RW, the PW, and the Tyrion/Tywin confrontation into 1 season of TV, leaving season 3 to fall flat?

[J_Crews]

Hell, they can even have that storm be the one that kills Balon Greyjoy as the climax of the storm and of the episode.

I'm pretty sure it was that storm

[sumpthy]

If Balon's death is shown on screen doesn't that mean they'll have to commit to a cause of death?

[victim]

I'm pretty sure he was killed by Jaqen, all signs point to that. I don't see why they can't just show him dying under shady circumstances. Hypothetically speaking, he doesn't even need to fall off a swaying bridge, though that would be darling, given what Pyke looks like on the show.

[Legend of Donal Noye]

Can you imagine the cliffhanger if it was at the end of Season 3? Catelyn, Rob and Grey Wind all killed, followed by Arya taking an axe to the head? then they could start season 4 off with Joffrey's death and please the masses into celebration.

[Crown]

The Red Wedding will go down in the history books of the best TV moments ever, if done right (a good build-up to the event).

[Sasha Steelsong]

I also feel like having the RW at the end of a season would leave too many viewers feeling dejected and, quite possibly, turned off to the next season. The RW needs to either be earlier in S3 or at the beginning of S4. When we all read the books, we had over half of a book left to smooth over the initial shock we got from the events of the RW. Having it at the end of S3 would give tv viewers nothing to look forward to...

The Red Wedding never was intended as and should not be a cliffhanger for the reasons you stated above. The RW and the PW are linked and need to be in the same season (be it the latter half of the third or the beginning of the fourth) also for the reasons you said above. Let's not forget that there will be roughly a year between 3.10 and 4.01 and I doubt many would be happy to wait that long for the "payoff" of Joffrey's death. Which while not enough to make up for the RW while reading, did take some of the sting out of it since it happened basically right afterwards. Having the RW in episode 7/8 and then the PW as the closer with Sansa's escape and Tyrion's arrest would be a better way to do it than making people wait over a year to see Joffrey die.