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[Book Spoilers] EP 210 Discussion

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Hated, hated, hated hated hated hated the way the Other looked. I almost laughed when it popped up on screen, it looked like some sort of goofy snow ape that belongs in Avatar 2 or something. A couple of good scenes but overall a weak episode, not exactly ending on a high note.

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Or a godswood when a weirwood is unavailable in the south. There are plenty of those.

Godswoods are in castles. There was no castle ergo... no godswood?

Even if you couldn't find a godswood, do you convert religions? Ok... maybe converting religions is acceptable if you are doing so for your spouse even though your bannermen would like as not quit following you for this. The problem with this, is that Rob's bride is from Esos, and she wouldn't be a worshiper of the seven either.

I hear ya, dude. They wanted to get married, though. I'm not a Catholic, but, if I wanted to get married in a hurry and a Catholic Priest was game, I'd straight-up be gettin' married by a Catholic Priest. That was my take on it.

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I thought it was pretty good. Yes I know the House of the Undying was a bit bad. The main thing that annoyed me is how good tyrion still looks. A pictured him alot more disfigured than that, like half his nose had been hacked off but i guess they had to pretty him up :/

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double post. board had a brain fart.

Edited by J_Crews

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Overall, another poor adaptation to finish a season of poor adaptation. Out goes so much of the memorable stuff that makes the books so enjoyable (House of the Undying, fall of Winterfell) for pale imitations that lack the power of the original.

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Southern godswoods, almost uniformly, have no weirwoods, using other tress like oaks, etc. as their heart trees. Off the top of my head, I can only remember one weirwood is the south, that being at Raventree Hall. Riverrun and King's Landing

They could use a non-weirwood heart tree as a substitute in a pinch. Surely it's the intent that matters. It makes more sense than picking a completely different set of gods...

And Riverrun does have a weirwood tree - check that scene in AGoT where Robb and the other Northern leaders (and Tytos Blackwood) are kneeling before it. They have them in various other places in the South as well - Casterly Rock, Oldtown and possibly one at Storm's End that was burned by Mel (?).

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That wasn't by choice. The actor got a bigger, better-paying gig. He's doing the World War Z film adaptation with Brad Pitt.

I knew that. But the books clearly say that Rhakaro is a youth that is still growing. By the fifth book we see him as a man, bigger and brawnier, completely changed from the boy in the first book. The same thing happened with the character of Gregor Clegane. The actor that played him in the first season, Conan Stevens, went to make The Hobbit. They replaced the actor and did not kill the character. They could have done the same thing with Rhakaro.

They always were. They're, essentially, the Westerosi stand-in for Danes going viking. If they can't screw it, eat it, or sell it it's useless to them. Trying to turn such people into something that fits in with the school of warfare Theon grew-up learning was on of his big blunders. The Ironborn do not occupy inland holding, regardless of the strength of the fortress... because they're strength is their fleet.

No, they're not. They did not abbandon Theon, not even once. And Dagmer was a pretty loyal dude. He gave Theon good advice and did what was asked of him.

Remember the scene in the fifth book where Reek goes to Moat Cailin to ask the ironborn holding the ruins to surrender. They are reluctant to do so, they want to stay and fight and die. Only after they hear about Crow's Eye winnin the kingsmoot do they accept to give up. And also, the one that came and told them to give up was balon's son, not a nobody.

She always was. She went from humping the wildling (former crow) who was killed last season straight to letting Winterfell's cook "lift her skirts." Having her with Theon didn't change her character in the slightest; it just kept them from needing to cast another actress for Theon to play with.

You're right here. I forgot about the part with the cook :)

Who cares? He shows-up one more time in the following 3 books and does nothing that can't be done by another new character. This isn't a book; it's TV -- keeping him alive would've meant either using him on-screen, taking $$$ out of the budget every season to pay him under a holding contract, or re-casting him.

You may be right here as well. Though he may play a bigger part in the books that follow.

Why is this a problem?

Salladhor Saan is a Lysene pirate. The Lysene have white-blond hair, blue eyes and smooth fair skin.

We know the Reeds are being cast for next season.

I know. But it still makes no sense.

Why pay an actual salary to the actor who plays Ser Barristan for him to be in one scene, when they could just as easily pay him under a holding contract (less $$$) and then re-introduce him as a full cast member in Season 3?

The talk almost always comes to the financial part. People keep telling me that the actors need to be paid. But it's not like the show is not making any money. I would guess it makes a whole lot of money. A buttload of money. A Scrooge McDuck load of money. And we're still talking about paying actors?! Come on!

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Belwas gets cut altogether?

That would just be wrong.

Then they should also scrap the sand snakes, the damphair, Stannis' knights, the rest of the tyrells, etc.

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I took to be more like a "We need to get married now. Let's go find a septon."

What holds the North together with the exception of White Harbor and the Manderly's worship of the faith, is that they all have the same gods. The King of the North is followed not because people want to give their gold to the Starks over the Lannisters or Baretheons. What holds them together as a region is the worship of the old gods. This is established even in the show.

The people that I was watching the show with didn't understand why I got as upset as I did, as I have not once this year been angry at any of the changes. This was not a change. This was a fundamental misinterpretation even in the realm of their own writing. .

I'm not a Catholic, but, if I wanted to get married in a hurry and a Catholic Priest was game, I'd straight-up be gettin' married by a Catholic Priest. That was my take on it.

No you wouldn't unless you went through Catechism first...

Edited by Holafernando Torres

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A few people, and when I mean few, I mean a tiny amount of people are forgetting that Wights effectively as Zombies. They're pretty much exactly the same, except Wights have glowing blue eyes. Them being all messed up and zombie like is pretty true to the books.

Wights aren't zombies in behavior or appearance. They have the apparent ability to play dead and carry out rudimentary order, as shown by the attack on Lord Commander Mormont. Classical zombies eat brains and not much else. Wights don't appear to decay. The two zombies that attacked Mormont didn't have corpse stink, and Coldhands isn't decaying.

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Book purists are horrible.

The only serious complain I could express is Jon's arc...and Ygritte was so good in it that I don't care. Come on, Qhorin appear in 3 chapters, is a very miror character , you can't say they have destroyed him.

Is Jon a moron in TV? Yes. Is a Jon a moron in the TV show? Yes. Keep calm.

As a book reader, I give the episode a solid 9 (8.5 for 2nd Season)

As a far as TV goes, I'd give a 9.5 or even more

C'mon, what about the house of the undead? it was easily one of my favorite moments of ALL the books, and was badly mishandled in the episode. Not only by the lack of prophecies or utter pointlessness, but by making even their good ideas (such as Dany having a vision with Drogo to be in a trance like state and not wanting to flee, that is what I got from their intentions) into something lame.

And about Jon Snow, the problem is not that he is a moron or not, is that the resolution was terribly rushed. I have talked to a few unsullied that also felt that way, specially when, just after slaying and betraying a known NW hero, he is IMMEDIATELY freed and considered as one of the Wildlings without further doubts from rattle shirt.

And I won't even talk about the marriage under the seven, b/c that was just stupid. Maybe next season they will cite it en passant in order to look like it was not a mistake.

The main gripes that most people have is that those issues would mostly be solved with small modifications that would not need a larger budget, but simply changing some scenes.

However, Brienne, the whole theon/luwin situation and KL were really good. Somewhat mixed feelings about the White Walkers. I always saw the Wights as zombies so I was OK with that, but the WW seemed as bad CG when up close, but from afar they were okay

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Regarding Robb and Talisha's marriage with the vows of the Seven. Any chance that this may be a way to 'un-legitimaze' their marriage, in the eyes of Northerner's, should the need arise? For instance this Talisha/Jeyne becomes pregnant on the TV series, the child could be deemed illegitimate should that be in the North's favor. She is a traitor we know.

It is hard to guess since this is such a convoluted plot line when compared to the book! In the books we are left wondering how much she knew about her mother and and Tywin's plotting but in the show we see her write the letter that is the one Tywin is reading at Harrenhall. There is also the whole is she pregnant question in the books.

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Was the first rider who saw Sam Coldhands? Could be why he seemed to be "spared".

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I was pretty disappointed with this episode, As a book reader but one that hasn't read the books in years most of the minor changes didn't instantly bother me this season. I felt like something was off or in a few cases i remembered that what happened was significantly different in the books but i kept telling myself that as long as the big important parts of the book were addressed and the characters stay true then it doesn't really matter. So as the season progressed and stories deviated more and more my expectations for this final episode continued to grow. As i watched it i kept glancing nervously at the clock as time ran down, I remember thinking "ok maester this is a really touching scene and youre both great and i have a newfound respect for you as actors but we need to get to the house of the undying pronto! There's a ton of stuff that needs to be covered! and we need some screen time between John and Qhorin or that scenes going to feel horribly random!" But the clock just kept ticking down... by the time we had five more minutes wasted on freaking Ros i knew it was going to be a let down, but i thought they'd at least put a few things in... how hard would it of been to put one blue flower on the ground at the wall and have Dany in the eerie snow and soft light (which looked way nice) pick it up? Why Drogo? what a waste. Her entire plot this season was worse than it was in the book... the villains were flat and pathetic too, warlock just stood there and waited to get burnt didn't take any precautions... the rich genie looking guy had a massive fancy vault... for nothing? He could of at least kept his monocle and top hat and evil wiry fake mustache in there. The Jon scene didn't have any tension it really didn't feel like it was as hard of a decision as it was in the books for him, especially with how he disarmed him, i expected him to hesitate there at least and maybe have ygritte encourage/plead with him to do it.. or maybe qhorin taunt him a bit... but even qhorin looked surprised at how fast he stabbed him in the heart. meh

I give this episode a 7/10... 5/10 for writing and a 9/10 for acting, hopefully the actors don't have to carry the next season, but the more they leave things out the harder it's going to be for them to introduce important plots later on...

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... the books clearly say that Rhakaro is a youth that is still growing. By the fifth book we see him as a man, bigger and brawnier, completely changed from the boy in the first book. The same thing happened with the character of Gregor Clegane. The actor that played him in the first season, Conan Stevens, went to make The Hobbit. They replaced the actor and did not kill the character. They could have done the same thing with Rhakaro.

I hate, hate, hate recasting actors. That's some bush-league daytime soap opera shit. Cue the voice-over: "The part of blah blah is now being played by blah blah." Screw that noise. I not only prefer dead to recast, I would prefer they never have been written into the show in the first place. Screw recastings. Screw them hard.

No, they're not. They did not abbandon Theon, not even once. And Dagmer was a pretty loyal dude. He gave Theon good advice and did what was asked of him.

Remember the scene in the fifth book where Reek goes to Moat Cailin to ask the ironborn holding the ruins to surrender. They are reluctant to do so, they want to stay and fight and die. Only after they hear about Crow's Eye winnin the kingsmoot do they accept to give up. And also, the one that came and told them to give up was balon's son, not a nobody.

I misunderstood what you were referring to initially. :)

Salladhor Saan is a Lysene pirate. The Lysene have white-blond hair, blue eyes and smooth fair skin.

That's a Lysene description from the books. We don't know what they look like in the show. I doubt GRRM's Lorathis are all pseudo-germans, but they are in the show.

I know. But it still makes no sense.

The talk almost always comes to the financial part. People keep telling me that the actors need to be paid. But it's not like the show is not making any money. I would guess it makes a whole lot of money. A buttload of money. A Scrooge McDuck load of money. And we're still talking about paying actors?! Come on!

Hollywood. Everybody is getting paid whatever their talent agent and/or manager negotiates for them, and nobody is taking a pay-cut so somebody else can get cast. Things like that are exceedingly rare and usually only happen when a Director/Producer wants a big, big Bruce Willis-esque star in their flick, and so they agree to the cut. GoT has a pretty big budget for a TV show, but it is not some giant inexhaustible gob of $$$.

That would just be wrong.

Then they should also scrap the sand snakes, the damphair, Stannis' knights, the rest of the tyrells, etc.

What does Belwas do that's so important? He's mostly comic relief. And, for the record, some of those you named being cut wouldn't surprise me, unless they can pussy-foot around the budget issue by holding their parts of the story back until later seasons when more established (and, likely, higher-paid) actors get iced, thereby freeing-up their salaries.

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No you wouldn't unless you went through Catechism first...

LOL! You know what I meant! :lol: :tantrum: :thumbsup:

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I gave this episode a 9. My only gripe was how highly represented the white walkers were and what purpose Ros is going to serve.

Sometimes the book purists on this site really turn me off visiting this forum. No matter what D&D do you will never be satisfied. A lot of events in the book would never translate on screen. Please remember the TV show is just an adaptation of the books - keep the books and the TV show separate. I'm grateful to see it on the screen :) Thankyou HBO, D&D, the actors/crew and GRRM.

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I only watched the scene beyond the Wall so far (I was hoping we might get to see Mance, but yeah...). Two things:

1. I thought the Other looked ridiculous. That was disappointing. Otherwise, great scene, I especially liked that the crows couldn't get away fast enough and left Sam behind. I always thought the books made too much of an absolute turning point when suddenly all of Jon's friends in the Watch turned into role models.

2. Did I understand correctly that Ygritte was trying to send a message to Qhorin, so to make him understand they were almost there and he better start his little drama attack soon, so Jon could gain a better position among the wildlings? Or what was the reason for her sudden attacking Jon? I thought it was clear from episode 8 that she had looked through Qhorin's fake accusations. What I don't understand: why does she do it? She wouldn't want to lead a spy to their camp knowingly, right?

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Was that thing on the horse at the end a White Walker or a Wight? It looked quite a bit different from the White Walker that was in the series premiere...

Sorry if this has been asked before.

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I thought about that but then I remembered that Rickard Karstark also swore by The Seven when they released the Kingslayer.

He wasn't swearing by anything...I read that as him speaking figuratively. It's be like some non-believer in frustration saying some thing like " I swear to god you're driving me mad!"...it's more of a cultural statement. It could have also been read as him wanting the kingslayer so bad he's service a religion he didn't believe.

Could have been any number of things besides him believing in the seven.

Robbs however was either a giant blunder or them trying to make his character even more dislike-able than they're making him by disrespecting his family and vows further.

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