[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[teemo]

That's okay. Just make sure to never do it again ;)

Something that is bothering me is what happened to Stannis? In the show he was in a really compromised position IIRC, not on a ship way back waiting to see how the war went. How did he manage to get away???

[JoramunsKazoo]

Something that is bothering me is what happened to Stannis? In the show he was in a really compromised position IIRC, not on a ship way back waiting to see how the war went. How did he manage to get away???

He carefully descended a siege ladder, ran back to the shore, rowed back to his ship, and sailed off. This is all reasonably possible in the midst of a full cavalry attack from behind. Loras had no personal reasons to pursue their retreat.

Right...?

Wait...

[LordofWinter]

Almost a slap in the face saying "We know what you wanted, Book Readers. But fuck you"

That's the feeling I've had since the beginning of the season.

[LordofWinter]

Something that is bothering me is what happened to Stannis? In the show he was in a

really compromised position IIRC, not on a ship

way back waiting to see how the war went. How

did he manage to get away???

I know. People I knew assumed he was either dead or captured. That's the thing about the writing of this season, it's been "okay, so we're going to change this, this, that and this" "but boss how are we going to explain how Stannis got out alive or how Sam survived the WW/wights?" "we don't have to explain anything. It's tv, they'll just have to accept it."

I'm all but certain GRRM reads the scripts they send him with a full bottle of scotch to drown out the pain of this horrendous crime.

[Istakhr]

That's okay. Just make sure to never do it again ;)

Something that is bothering me is what happened to Stannis? In the show he was in a really compromised position IIRC, not on a ship way back waiting to see how the war went. How did he manage to get away???

This one was Marshall's fault. At least they could have had him going up another section of wall.

[SerMixalot]

he jumped in LF's teleportation device

Obviously

[Raksha the Demon]

I think they are trying to make Arya a bit more human in the show. I mean, look at her! She's a little girl! Would you really be comfortable seeing her kill someone in cold blood? I know it's in the books, but still... I think it's okay to make such a change.

I think that D&D are doing the best they can with the limitations they have and I don't think it damages the outcome as much as some book fanatics do. Who cares if Asha is called Yara, or if Dany doesn't have purple eyes?!? Or that there is a Ros in there who replaced Alayaya and is everyone's favorite whore?

We can sit back and enjoy it, or not watch. I don't see the point in watching something you don't like....

So, Smiler, I think it's a right decision to stop watching if you don't enjoy it. :)

The name change of Asha to Yara, and Dany's not having purple eyes, doesn't bother me nearly as much as the screen time given to a character who does not exist at all in the books (and thus takes screen time from characters who do). As for many fans' outrage over Arya's not killing the guard when leaving Harrenhall, it is a crucial milestone in her character development. She is going from a cute tomboy to a war-scarred killer in the books; it was sad, but realistic; and they blithely bypassed it in the show, possibly because Arya is a favorite of the show's watchers. I would not be more comfortable seeing her kill someone in cold blood, but it is what she does; and what she will do again; she has not endured and observed horror and danger unmarked; and no, Arya is not just a cute little girl anymore. Except on the show.

[boojam]

He carefully descended a siege ladder, ran back to the shore, rowed back to his ship, and sailed off. This is all reasonably possible in the midst of a full cavalry attack from behind. Loras had no personal reasons to pursue their retreat.

Right...?

Wait...

Well Alexander the Great escaped a worse pickle when he took an arrow assaulting an Aspasioi stronghold in what we know of as India today. His men had to rescue him. So such things have happened.

We just did not get this one on screen.

[boojam]

Given that GRRM is a script writer I would have thought they'd make more use of the dialogue from the novels and not replace it with their own.

How do you know that was not George's choice?

[Le Cygne]

This:

"This one's yours, she-wolf. You do it."

will never call back to this:

"A girl should be bloody, too. This is her work."

because they gutted all the Arya and Jaqen scenes.

This:

"Laugh," she snarled at him. He moaned instead. "Laugh," she repeated, grabbing his throat with one hand and stabbing at his belly with the other. "Laugh!" She kept saying it, over and over, until her hand was red up to the wrist and the stink of the fool’s dying was like to choke her. But Shagwell never laughed. The sobs that Brienne heard were all her own. When she realized that, she threw down her knife and shuddered.

will never happen, because it already did with someone else, but it didn't mean anything, because Brienne didn't suffer, she just kills.

Nor this:

It was the easiest thing in the world for Arya to step up behind him and stab him. "Is there gold hidden in the village?" she shouted as she drove the blade up through his back. "Is there silver? Gems?" She stabbed twice more. "Is there food? Where is Lord Beric?" She was on top of him by then, still stabbing. "Where did he go? How many men were with him? How many knights? How many bowmen? How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many? Is there gold in the village?"

because not only is the Tickler already dead, but Arya didn't suffer, and she didn't kill, she just waited tables then walked out of Harrenhal.

[mooksman]

The name change of Asha to Yara, and Dany's not having purple eyes, doesn't bother me nearly as much as the screen time given to a character who does not exist at all in the books (and thus takes screen time from characters who do). As for many fans' outrage over Arya's not killing the guard when leaving Harrenhall, it is a crucial milestone in her character development. She is going from a cute tomboy to a war-scarred killer in the books; it was sad, but realistic; and they blithely bypassed it in the show, possibly because Arya is a favorite of the show's watchers. I would not be more comfortable seeing her kill someone in cold blood, but it is what she does; and what she will do again; she has not endured and observed horror and danger unmarked; and no, Arya is not just a cute little girl anymore. Except on the show.

Yeah pretty much. Arya in the books is so intensely readable and unique, one of GRRM's best. No idea what theya re doing with her on the show. Apparently she's having tea and making wisecracks with the most powerful lord in the realm!

If she had actually killed that guard it would have been bizarre and out of character, which says just how much they've fucked up her story line.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

^{I think the general production was a mess. They seem to start storylines then cut them leaving scenes that just look odd (the shadowbaby scene under where? with bars to guard what?) or characters that are introduced to play no later part (Salhador Saan, they spent such a nice long scene introducing him then we never saw him again). Were there additional scenes that got cut or did they start off with storylines then change their minds and go in a different direction? It just looks slapdash.}

^{Ontop of that D&D seem to have read DWD and want characters to reflect how they are then. Danny in particular appears to have skip a lot of progression and is in full raging Targ mode which makes me think even more that GRRM has told D&D she'll be an antagonist in the end. Not just Dany though but Davos was promoted first to Admiral, then to Hand for no real reason. I'm half expecting them to cram AFFC & DWD into the next series.}

^{They also seem to want to add scenes for no apparent reason and have caved into shoe-horning in fan favourites. The last episode why did we have to see Tyrion? We didn't need to go to KL at all. Blackwater ended great Tyrion hit no one knows how bad (though we all suspect he's fine), cliffhanger, we can deal with Tyrion waking up and finding he's fallen from grace S3. But they felt like adding that to S2 then in S3 ep1 we're going to get scenes reminding us of Tyrion's predicament making this scene pointless. Keep it out and spend more time on HotU and Winterfell. Same goes for Stannis, you didn't feel like showing most of his scenes so why add this pointless scene. No doubt beginning S3 we're going to be reminded of these. Just as Blackwater only focused on Lannister/ Stannis Arcs. This should only have focused on Winterfell/Dany with short Brienne & Robb scenes. Arya as well, I liked her acting with Tywin but we got those scenes episode after episode, they were all the same and didn't progress or reveal that much about either character. I thought they were going to be the perfect time to give the viewer some of that backstory you get in the book. A bit more on the rebellion, Tywin revealing fam history as well but no.}

^{& don't get me started on the added Ros scenes. I mean this episodes scene was in it why? I know to set up Ros becoming Varys bitch but can that not have waited till he has use of her, could they not have done that better and link it in with a betrayl or are we supposed to feel for Ros?}

^tHotU

^{This was a joke. I did like the throneroom vision but some of the prophecies were cut badly. I know you cant translate the book onto the screen direct as it would make things too obvious but why not change it slightly. Dany could walk into a dark room with a scary voiced crone or undying warlock who can tell her the visions she's seeing describing them like a book. I'm thinking like Old Nan in the first series when telling the stories of the Others.}

^Winterfell

^{Though it's had its problems (the murder of the Miller boys was too obvious for my liking). This was easily the most enjoyable storyline for me but the ending didn't live up to it. I liked Theon's speak and didn't even mind the cartoon knocking him out. Then why not show the Ironborn opening the gates and Bolton men storming through. Ramsey (completely armoured, helmed and looking menacing) could walk straight up to Dagmar & crew whilst Dagmar explained they've done what was requested and that they were promised their lives. Ramsey doesn't have to say anything just let his helmet look at them motionless then turns to see the two boys hung and burnt and turns back. They could show his men killing the ironborn or just cut and have the next scene of winterfell being burnt to ruin with Bran et al emerging. They wouldn't have to cast Ramsey, they'd have a much better scene & the look at the boys could make the audience think they'd burned it to the ground after anger of the Stark boys death and so hide the Bolton betrayal. They've tied the bastard to Roose so an obvious betrayal as he's done fingers Roose as a traitor.}

^{Sorry for the long post, I had a lot to get off me chest.}

[7V3N]

I forgot to add, if Dany's dragons can just disintegrate chains, then how they hell were they chained up and how is Dany going to chain them up in the future? Looks like the show just removed EVERY limitation available to dragons (even if they are temporary).

[SelaBela]

I forgot to add, if Dany's dragons can just disintegrate chains, then how they hell were they chained up and how is Dany going to chain them up in the future? Looks like the show just removed EVERY limitation available to dragons (even if they are temporary).

I thought the chains disintegrated because the dragons had killed the originator of the magic, Pyat Pree. Thats how I saw it anyway.

[Masamune]

Why did they have to kill off Irri AND Doreah? Fair enough with Rakharo. They didn't have a lot of choice there. I know Doreah lived longer than she did in the books, but on the other hand Jhiqui vanished after one episode in S1, so Dany was already down one handmaiden. Would it really have been asking too much to keep at least one of them around?

They're both peripheral characters but I liked how Dany still had that Dothraki presence to remind her of who she once was. What do we have left? Kovarro and some faceless extras in the background?

[7V3N]

Why did they have to kill off Irri AND Doreah? Fair enough with Rakharo. They didn't have a lot of choice there. I know Doreah lived longer than she did in the books, but on the other hand Jhiqui vanished after one episode in S1, so Dany was already down one handmaiden. Would it really have been asking too much to keep at least one of them around?

They're both peripheral characters but I liked how Dany still had that Dothraki presence to remind her of who she once was. What do we have left? Kovarro and some faceless extras in the background?

They like to make the show "mordernized." So abandoning the "savage Dothraki" and embracing the role as a classical Queen gives the slow-minded viewers a reason to clap and say "This Queen is going to take Westeros!"

Basically, HBO wants to sell "Team Dany" and "Team Tyrion" merchandise.

[Chaircat Meow]

To be honest, I just thought they wanted to save some money.

[Vovea]

My main gripe is with the changes to the Dothraki. There was no point in keeping Doreah alive and shafting Irri just to kill Doreah off anyway. And Dany's Bloodriders have just seemed to fade into the background or merged into one. Rakharo was the only one given some screen time and so... he gets killed off? I wish the TV writers would stop killing characters. It's irritating now, but future episodes are also going to suffer because side characters aren't there (also, seems like no more "It is known").

I was hoping for more from the House of the Undying. I was pretty bored with Dany's story but was excited to see the adaptation of the visions/the warlocks and was let down: no prophesies, the warlocks just seem trivial, Dany's struggle to gain wealth to get ships is just reduced to kill a rich guy and steal his stuff.

As for Tyrion and Shae, I did enjoy their main scene together at the time, but I'm starting to wonder if the TV writers are going to go through with having Shae humiliate Tyrion at his trial and have him kill her without having Shae morph into Tysha's role (as in, Shae is actually innocent and Tyrion feels guilty after finding out).

Other nitpicks: Robb's wedding, the Others walking past Sam, no Ramsey or Reeds yet, Arya not killing anyone, Faceless Men and how they are now implied to be cool when it comes to personal vengeance.

(Apologies for thread resurrection. I am no Thoros of Myr).

[Daske]

I wish the TV writers would stop killing characters. It's irritating now

Nowhere near as 'irritating' as when Martin does it! :-)

[Captain Condor]

I agree with everyone's assessment. To me, the HBO storyline has diverged so much I'm definitely not buying the DVD set. Season 1 was great. Season 2 was a flop. I don't even like the way they made the White Walkers(others) look (blue tinted flesh bodies with messed up long hair and thicken facial features.) In my mind the Others were more like ice and with sharp features and without human-like hair...but that's my imagination. Overall...Season 2 sucked.