(Book Spoilers) Foreshadowing and Symbolism in Episode 10

[Im With Stannis]

I just dont understand why they could show Rheagar with Aegon. Dont want to hire an actor fir a speaking role? Fine, have Pyclle and Varys in the room and say the lines, and have extras play Rheagar and Elia. Ugh, it bugs me so much they didnt drop "The Prince that was Promised" or "3 heads of the dragon"

[Fragile Bird]

I did enjoy the HOTU. It was a great little pointer towards Jon, KL and The Wall. We obviously know Aegon will be marching towards KL, i'm wondering will Dany have to choose between Aegon or Jon, when she returns? I think they will be the 3 heads, Drogon w/ Dany, Viserion with Aegon and Rhaegal with Jon. Dany will then have to choose between Aegon, at KL and Jon at The Wall.

I also liked the LF/Sansa scene today which is forshadowing the "lie" regarding Lysa/Marillion. I also noted the nod/glance thingy between Sansa and Tyrion last week. Really looking forward to next season. ASoS is my favourite book

1st Post :D

Lol, I see, I see, first post! Welcome to Westeros, Whore of Tarth. Erm, is that a comment on Brienne?

Anyway, keep posting and always remember to have a sense of humour. There may be times when you lose it (she said from experience). ;)

[Hasfast]

This is certainly a provocative inquiry as it calls in to question the effectiveness of Victarion's dragon horn...

I think that Horn is a very hellish device with a very different purpose, for instance, making the dragons go into frenzy. We know of two magic horns in the books: Jormund's Horn/The Horn of Winter, and the Dragon Horn Euron supposedly recovered from The Doom (Also, is Euron the one with Quithe when Jorah goes to her to inquire about the dragons?). Melisandre arguably destroyed the Horn of Winter, although there's at least a couple of mentions of Samwell carrying a horn with him to the Citadel... and Moqorro seems to support the viability of the Dragon Horn's power... But I don't trust Moqorro at all and I think Victarion shouldn't either. D.R.

[corvus12]

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but after my initial disappointing with this season and it's changes from the book, reading the posts in here makes me wonder if there is a method to their madness ?

If GRRM did tellD&D how the books will end maybe the

HOTU does make sense. I don't hold out any hope that the next two books will come out in the next couple of years, but they do have to conclude the series somehow if it doesn't get renewed after the next book. Maybe they are setting up the series for an early and maybe different (from the books) ending

​I hope this makes sence.. English isn't my mother tongue.

[Direwolf Lager]

i think D&D are too dumb to foreshadow material that may appear in the Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. by the way season 2 was shot, i doubt GRRM told them any of the major plot points that still havent been revealed in the novels

[sumpthy]

Dany turns away from the throne when she's in touching distance to go north of the wall.

Drogo and Rhaego don't represent themselves, they represent family to Daenerys. Her family (what's left of it) is north of the wall.

snow sits on the iron throne? :laugh:

[boojam]

Doreah fate came as complete surprise to me ... can't see it as a logical plot development.

[K.C.]

i think D&D are too dumb to foreshadow material that may appear in the Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. by the way season 2 was shot, i doubt GRRM told them any of the major plot points that still havent been revealed in the novels

I recall reading that he had told them how the series ended in case he doesn't finish. Of course, who knows what exactly he said.

For those with HBO Go, at 22:03 (when Stannis is peering into the flames) there's a video clip of GRRM in the "special features" talking about prophecy. He says, "You never hear about all the prophecies that undoubtedly people made that didn't come true. You just hear about the ones that did come true, or that came true in some unexpected way, which is the thing you have to do if you're a fantasy writer and you're writing about prophecies. You try to pay them off in ways that the reader doesn't necessarily see coming." He then talks about how he's "had some fun" with this, using the red comet as an example since every character had their own interpretation. Nothing new for people who have been following the series, but I just find it hard to believe D&D pulled the throne room out of their asses.

Of course, one of my last posts before the episode aired was to say I doubted Drogo would appear, so my own track record with prophecies is on par with Melisandre (it wasn't the real Drogo, after all!).

[Conchobar]

To me it's was clearly snow.

Three words.

" WInter is Coming "

Its a referance to Winter and what is going to happen to Westeros when it comes.

[Adam West]

Did any of you guys also notice that one of the wights had a Stark shield across his back? I find this very interesting due to the lingering Starks = others (or w/e you call it) theory.

[jons nissa]

Did any of you guys also notice that one of the wights had a Stark shield across his back? I find this very interesting due to the lingering Starks = others (or w/e you call it) theory.

there's a starks = others theory???? what is it?

[Fragile Bird]

No! I will watch carefully tonight on the re-broadcast!

[Adam West]

there's a starks = others theory???? what is it?

:cheers:

[Died a Hero]

I see it as winter, not Jon Snow, has overtaken Westeros. The Stark words are thousands of years old, and I believe that people have overlooked their true meaning. They don't mean that simply winter, as a season, is coming. They mean the true cold, the Others, are eventually coming. I think they will overrun Westeros in the next two books, especially now that The Wall has been weakened from true leadership, and will cut a swath of destruction across the land. Including in Kings Landing.

I've always thought that Dany's true war has to do with the Others, and her "walking out through the other side" showed where the battleground of the fight will take place.

Or...it was a stunning visual effect that Alan Taylor came up with to help translate an message without giving away spoilers to the T.V. audience.

You know, whichever.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

That said, what did happen there seemed to be very consistent with what we know about the character of Daenerys.The two most character defining things about her is that she wants her heritage and inheritance of the Iron Throne, and she wants to be loved and accepted. These are themes that have been hit on over and over in the books, and seem to be the major motivations for the character,

Yet what we see here is the denying of the things that she wants. She approaches the throne and just as she is about to grab hold, she leaves only to find herself in the arms of the one man that she truly loves and who loved her. Not only is he there, but her little Prince is there with him making it all the more difficult to walk away and leave.

Perfection! Greatest post and summation on Dany that I've seen in a long time.

[daoloth]

I'll be blunt perhaps but this is my experience with tv production. There was NO foreshadowing whatsoever. Instead it was a smart trick the writers played on you to have you chasing the rabbit much like Lost fans did to their disappointment. This is why those visions are so vague and seemingly meaningless. A fan's mind will add anything to salvage it into a coherent story. Unless you agree that "the floor was covered with snow.... Jon Snow!" is the new black for the series. The show is a one time product much more than the books are. It is much more short-lived and intensive. If they have you waiting until the 3rd season it worked no matter how meaningless it is. If it is enough to fill the gaping plot holes - it worked too.

You want foreshadowing - go to the books. Martin has time, medium AND the actual knowledge to foreshadow all he wants. Benioff and Weiss would have to first have Martin's storytelling talent to work with his material well (which they dont ) and then be able to think seasons ahead in a medium as rigid and unpredictable as a tv show taking into account that when they finish Dance with Dragons in a hypothetical 6th or 7th season Martin will or will not have Winds of Winter ready. Now that would be the first ever in the history of Television instance of pure screenwriting clairvoyance.

Although as bad as this episode was the not touching the iron throne was a nice touch.

[Aslerys]

The whole HotU scene remind me of a theory I have in wich Dany would give up the Iron thone for love, after all, deep down the only thing she really wants is to be loved so if she would be force to choose between the thone and love I belive that she would choose love(or maybe I'm too optimistic :laugh: btw I'm not saying that Jon is her love although at this point he is the prime suspect)

This is crackpot but maybe the betrayal for love would be the the one that Dany would do to herself and her right to the throne.... :ph34r:

[Hasfast]

I'll be blunt perhaps but this is my experience with tv production. There was NO foreshadowing whatsoever. Instead it was a smart trick the writers played on you to have you chasing the rabbit much like Lost fans did to their disappointment. This is why those visions are so vague and seemingly meaningless. A fan's mind will add anything to salvage it into a coherent story. Unless you agree that "the floor was covered with snow.... Jon Snow!" is the new black for the series. The show is a one time product much more than the books are. It is much more short-lived and intensive. If they have you waiting until the 3rd season it worked no matter how meaningless it is. If it is enough to fill the gaping plot holes - it worked too.

You want foreshadowing - go to the books. Martin has time, medium AND the actual knowledge to foreshadow all he wants. Benioff and Weiss would have to first have Martin's storytelling talent to work with his material well (which they dont ) and then be able to think seasons ahead in a medium as rigid and unpredictable as a tv show taking into account that when they finish Dance with Dragons in a hypothetical 6th or 7th season Martin will or will not have Winds of Winter ready. Now that would be the first ever in the history of Television instance of pure screenwriting clairvoyance.

Although as bad as this episode was the not touching the iron throne was a nice touch.

Hmmm, I thought threads like these were meant for people who actually like what HBO has been doing. If you can't trust in the creative honesty and integrity of the people behind this show, why do you watch it? D.R.

[Hasfast]

The whole HotU scene remind me of a theory I have in wich Dany would give up the Iron thone for love, after all, deep down the only thing she really wants is to be loved so if she would be force to choose between the thone and love I belive that she would choose love(or maybe I'm too optimistic :laugh: btw I'm not saying that Jon is her love although at this point he is the prime suspect)

This is crackpot but maybe the betrayal for love would be the the one that Dany would do to herself and her right to the throne.... :ph34r:

Crackpot or not, I do like it and it sounds plausible enough. After all, the Undying only say that she'll know three betrayals. Although forsaking the Throne in favour of love is not necessarily a self-betrayal. D.R.

[Howdyphillip]

I just thought it was such an interesting subtle piece to throw in there. Instead of his usual boisterous "Hodor" we get a quiet, assuring "hodor" softly spoken with dignity. I think this speaks volumes to Hodor's emotional intelligence and trustworthiness.

This is OBVIOUSLY not the case. Without question, when Hodor delivers this powerful line of dialogue he is questioning the limits of his own humanity. He is expressing real concern about his capabilities as a care giver and his new found role as a medieval wheelchair. The emphasis on the last letter tells us that although terribly frightened, there is still an unrestrained hope that he can carry out his duties to his young lord. All in the word "Hodor"

;)