D and D appreciation thread . .

[messem]

Did I say I liked the scenes?

Did I say you liked the scenes? ;)

Book readers don't even criticize the show on its own merits, they criticize it for not being exactly like the books.

I don't. At least I try to criticize the show based on the show (book knowledges complicates this often).

Most of the time I just assume they have reason for changes. One reason for sure is to activate some hot buttons with book readers. They don't know it but they would be bored by a 1:1 adaption. On other times it is a production necessity. I get that. I have no problem with that. I still think both scenes were unnecessary and poorly executed. Money down the drain.

[Daske]

Casting aside it is a idiotic scene. He is simply slashing people. Evil, evil, evil. They just forgot to make him ugly so that slowest mind would understand this. It looks like Uwe Boll was guest director for that scene.

That is the whole sum of the Mountain in the books too. They didn't need to do anything complicated or clever, just remind the audience who he was and what a crazy nutjob he is with a big biceps, little time for words and zero compassion.

[sj4iy]

Did I say you liked the scenes? ;)

I don't. At least I try to criticize the show based on the show (book knowledges complicates this often).

Most of the time I just assume they have reason for changes. One reason for sure is to activate some hot buttons with book readers. They don't know it but they would be bored by a 1:1 adaption. On other times it is a production necessity. I get that. I have no problem with that. I still think both scenes were unnecessary and poorly executed. Money down the drain.

I think the Mountain scene was fine- he's a big brute who likes killing people. That's what he does in the books, that's what he's doing here.

Yara's scene could have been done better, agreed. I think it needed a few more minutes to really flesh it out, but didn't have it. I think the point of the scene came across, just the execution was lackluster. It happens.

I didn't mean to generalize about all book readers, just many readers who lurk on forums XD

[Deadwood]

Mountain scene was fine...a small taster of the carnage he can unleash.

[II_CHIEF]

Really? :o Because I feel that this season, in terms of overall quality, has completely eclipsed any other season. I can't remember a single episode or storyline that I think is less than brilliant this season, whereas the first three had quite a few (Dany season 2, KL season 3) that I was unenthusiastic about. Also, what didn't you like about those scenes (just curious, since I loved them!)? Anyways, I hope the last three episodes change your opinion! I remember how disappointed I was last year after S3E6 and S3E7, but then Second Sons and The Rains of Castamere happened,, and my opinion on the season as a whole was completely changed!

Those scenes just seemed a little unintelligently done in my mind is all. Biter attacking the hound first unarmed and expecting to collect his silver haha? Brienne just blurting out 'Sansa Stark', Dany/Daario just happened out of no where, i was hoping they were going to show a bit more emotional conflict on her part (the whole 'i want to, but i shouldnt'). Nit picking i know.. I've got no problem with them changing aspects, i just hate to see it lose that cleverness Martin does so incredibly well.

Im sure the last few eps will be a huge +++ :)

[Deadwood]

A tad rushed maybe. Dany/Dario wasn't out of nowhere though, he has been laying those stones for a while, and she finally allowed him in.

Every scene has an impact, this is the sort of show I can't watch over the top of my laptop. :D

[jentario]

That is my opinion seeing some things within this season. 1 thing that really got to me whilst also being quite recent was where Littlefinger said "your sister" instead of "only cat".

I think this because I just don't feel like enough effort is being put it but instead more porn is being crammed inside. Oberyn is my favourite character on season 4 so far however he should have been in every episode yet he was left out which leaves episodes to learn about his character far apart. Instead time is wasted in brothels looking at tits and weiners. But then again it is HBO!

There have been 3 brothel scenes in season 4, 2 of which were Oberyn scenes and the third is Salador Saan. The first was Oberyn's introduction, which was a mighty important scene, that packed a lot more than just T&A. The second was a bit crammed in, but it was over rather quickly and drifted right into Oberyn and Tywin's discussion (which is very important). Salador Saan's scene was awesome, and I don't think there's anything bad to say about it. That's it for brothel scenes. On that department, D&D have been improving every season. Seasons 1 &2 had so many brothel scenes that my head hurts just thinking about it.

In terms of "Only Cat", that doesn't come from taking it less seriously. If anything, it comes from taking things too seriously (being afraid of confusing the casual viewer, which I agree is a dumb decision overall). So far, the season has hit the mark on all the big moments (the purple wedding, Arya and the Hound at the Inn, Tyrion's tial, Braavos, Dany taking Yunkai, Only Cat Your Sister, the Other reveal... the only two exceptions are Craster's Keep and Yara in the Dreadfort, but those aren't even from the books) and we aren't even at the biggest moments yet. The battle at the Wall, the duel, Tyrion confronting Tywin, Bran reaching his destination, Arya and the Hound's send-off fight scene (and it's consequences), Brienne's epic fight before getting captured by the BWB, Lady Stoneheart...

[Palladinho]

I appreciate all the unnecessary sex scenes replacing other better and important scenes!

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

There have been 3 brothel scenes in season 4, 2 of which were Oberyn scenes and the third is Salador Saan. The first was Oberyn's introduction, which was a mighty important scene, that packed a lot more than just T&A. The second was a bit crammed in, but it was over rather quickly and drifted right into Oberyn and Tywin's discussion (which is very important). Salador Saan's scene was awesome, and I don't think there's anything bad to say about it. That's it for brothel scenes. On that department, D&D have been improving every season. Seasons 1 &2 had so many brothel scenes that my head hurts just thinking about it.

In terms of "Only Cat", that doesn't come from taking it less seriously. If anything, it comes from taking things too seriously (being afraid of confusing the casual viewer, which I agree is a dumb decision overall). So far, the season has hit the mark on all the big moments (the purple wedding, Arya and the Hound at the Inn, Tyrion's tial, Braavos, Dany taking Yunkai, Only Cat Your Sister, the Other reveal... the only two exceptions are Craster's Keep and Yara in the Dreadfort, but those aren't even from the books) and we aren't even at the biggest moments yet. The battle at the Wall, the duel, Tyrion confronting Tywin, Bran reaching his destination, Arya and the Hound's send-off fight scene (and it's consequences), Brienne's epic fight before getting captured by the BWB, Lady Stoneheart...

I agree with your list. The last 3 episodes will be heavily packed with a lot to go down! I just hope they're able to change my mind regarding this season.

[Volverin]

I didn't believe there can be a topic like that here, but there it is!

I just want to say I think D&D are getting overly-criticized for the stuff they've done. I think there are plenty of things they've done brilliantly.

First of all they are being quite faithful to the books. The show has highest ratings in history of HBO from what Ive read, we all know how successful it has been. People absolutely love it. Sure that the book material does most of the job but they also have to put it together, its hard work.

Second of all, some of their fanfic scenes were absolutely amazing. Tywin's introduction was perfect with him skinning a stag. Robert Baratheon talking with Ser Barristan and Jaime Lannister about first kills. Tywin - Arya scenes in season 2 showing more human side to Tywin... And there surely are more examples of their fine work in that department.

We must remember that if not for them we wouldn't have seen our favourite characters playing out our favourite scenes on screen. GRRM has been getting crappy offers all the time but it was the D&D duo that had the idea and convinced GRRM to do it.

They are doing a very solid job on these series.

[sj4iy]

Personally, I think this is the best season of GoT so far. It has just blown away all of my expectations, from death scenes to battle scenes to intimate heartbreaking scenes to funny scenes- this season has just had it all. I think so, so many people don't appreciate how spoiled for choice we are in this day and age of television, where cable has the money and the ratings to spend so much on great filmmaking, and tv shows can match or exceed the quality of movies. I can't wait to see the last episode, and then I will cry for more XD

Good job, D&D.

[hollowcrown]

I didn't believe there can be a topic like that here, but there it is!

I just want to say I think D&D are getting overly-criticized for the stuff they've done. I think there are plenty of things they've done brilliantly.

First of all they are being quite faithful to the books. The show has highest ratings in history of HBO from what Ive read, we all know how successful it has been. People absolutely love it. Sure that the book material does most of the job but they also have to put it together, its hard work.

Second of all, some of their fanfic scenes were absolutely amazing. Tywin's introduction was perfect with him skinning a stag. Robert Baratheon talking with Ser Barristan and Jaime Lannister about first kills. Tywin - Arya scenes in season 2 showing more human side to Tywin... And there surely are more examples of their fine work in that department.

We must remember that if not for them we wouldn't have seen our favourite characters playing out our favourite scenes on screen. GRRM has been getting crappy offers all the time but it was the D&D duo that had the idea and convinced GRRM to do it.

They are doing a very solid job on these series.

I disagree.

I think the added scenes in Season 1 and 2 did a great job at adding background and context and the changed storylines made things flow better.

Come Season 3 and 4 - no not really. The added scenes and plotlines are illogical, self indulgent, overlong and full of plot holes. The best moments so far this season have been from George's work - adapted carefully and succinctly. Additions like the Yara Dreadfort scene, Missandei/Grey Worm romance and "beetles" take away time from perfect book moments and are the height of arrogance by people thinking they are better than the material they are supposedly adapting.

[sj4iy]

I disagree.

I think the added scenes in Season 1 and 2 did a great job at adding background and context and the changed storylines made things flow better.

Come Season 3 and 4 - no not really. The added scenes and plotlines are illogical, self indulgent, overlong and full of plot holes. The best moments so far this season have been from George's work - adapted carefully and succinctly. Additions like the Yara Dreadfort scene, Missandei/Grey Worm romance and "beetles" take away time from perfect book moments and are the height of arrogance by people thinking they are better than the material they are supposedly adapting.

Oh, the old "They are such arrogant pricks who act like gods!" argument. Used by Doctor Who fans about Moffat, LotR fans about Peter Jackson, Star Trek fans about JJ Abrams, etc.

In a word: BS. They think no such thing and attributing such a view to them is ridiculous. They love and respect the source material, and I've never once heard them say anything like "We are better than Martin!" They have to make changes, and sometimes the changes work better than the books, sometimes they are okay, and sometimes they don't work. But It's not arrogant of them to change the story because it is and always will be an adaptation.

[hollowcrown]

Oh, the old "They are such arrogant pricks who act like gods!" argument. Used by Doctor Who fans about Moffat, LotR fans about Peter Jackson, Star Trek fans about JJ Abrams, etc.

In a word: BS. They think no such thing and attributing such a view to them is ridiculous. They love and respect the source material, and I've never once heard them say anything like "We are better than Martin!" They have to make changes, and sometimes the changes work better than the books, sometimes they are okay, and sometimes they don't work. But It's not arrogant of them to change the story because it is and always will be an adaptation.

It's just how it comes across to me personally. I enjoy changes, Crasters Keep added some much needed action to Bran's story. The added scenes in early Seasons were amazing. It's just this season has really stretched things to the point of "eh seriously just get back to the books" for me when usually I've been a guy open to added scenes and changes.

[sj4iy]

It's just how it comes across to me personally. I enjoy changes, Crasters Keep added some much needed action to Bran's story. The added scenes in early Seasons were amazing. It's just this season has really stretched things to the point of "eh seriously just get back to the books" for me when usually I've been a guy open to added scenes and changes.

I don't always like the changes they make (Molestown not being evacuated for no reason, for example) and I think it's completely fair to criticize the writing, but I don't like criticizing the writers themselves as thinking they are above their source material, because I've watched interviews with them, and they seem like pretty humble guys who are beyond thrilled for just getting the chance to do this...they've never once claimed that they are improving the story, only adapting it.

Now, a guy like Terry Goodkind? Criticize away, that's guy's an insufferable ass who thinks he's the next coming of Ayn Rand XD

[Dolorous Gabe]

I think there are two episodes in the middle of this season which I wasn't too keen on and put me on a bit of a downer on it, but it started fairly well and since The Laws Of Gods And Men (and Tyrion losing it - Peter Dinklage :bowdown: ) it has been generally excellent bar a few added story lines that seemed unnecessary to me.

I have a slight problem with some of the shock value tactics employed. Just seems occasionally unnecessary and OTT.

It is terrific though. Most issues I have with it are fairly minor. I have D&D to thank for coming to the books so they have my appreciation.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I've said it before, but I think D&D have actually proven that they're good writers with the added scenes in season 1 and season 2 (minus the Talisa ones), so they've got nothing to prove in that front. I'd go as far as to say that many, many of my favorite lines of those seasons were the ones written by D&D

However, I fear that their writing started to decline because the guys just wanna do too much. They write so many episodes that it's only natural and understandable that they can come up with crappy lines. They should have a bigger, and hopefully more diverse team of writers, and that way they can devote more time to their scripts and get more feedback and insight from other people. Here's hoping for a better season 4, I still have faith in them

[roxWolfox]

Heh. I didn't even realise this thread existed! :P Must add my two cents!

I just hope they're able to change my mind regarding this season.

Now, I can appreciate passionate fans wanting to see all their beloved lines/scenes put on screen (hell, I still rant, 20 years later, about Stephen King's The Stand being mutilated!), but as I've aged I have come to realise that show-runners, directors, writers, and producers aren't interested in making the story fit into my personal vision of the story. They are 'porting' words from paper onto film for the masses, not little old me. Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've learned that my husband and I can read the same story/watch the same show/movie and come out with completely different observations/conclusions. No two minds work the same, and very few people share the same vision (police have confirmed that witness accounts vary from person to person on many an occasion).

It isn't up to the show-runners to change your mind about how they set up the story ... it's up to you to change the way you view their interpretation. Or you can concede that they naively took on the challenge of making GoT without fully comprehending the amount of attention to detail they would have to include to satisfy every single book-reader. You know the ones - them that hate the Lannisters/them that love the Lannisters; the Stark/direwolf lovers; the Dany worshippers. The list goes on and on and on ....

I still remember reading the scene when Littlefinger pushed Lysa out the moon door. That scene shocked me into loving him (momentarily) for that. Did I recall what his words were before the shove? Nope. They were irrelevant to me as I'm one of those people who prefers actions over words, and LFs actions made him damn close to being my hero ... if only for a brief second.

Second of all, some of their fanfic scenes were absolutely amazing

I still don't get this fascination with GoT = fanfic.

The last I checked, George RR Martin has co-executive producer and writer credits for GoT.

How is it fanfic? He would never allow his name to be connected to fanfic simply because he's stated on more than one occasion that he's against that sort of thing.

However, I fear that their writing started to decline because the guys just wanna do too much. They write so many episodes that it's only natural and understandable that they can come up with crappy lines. They should have a bigger, and hopefully more diverse team of writers, and that way they can devote more time to their scripts and get more feedback and insight from other people. Here's hoping for a better season 4, I still have faith in them

I do agree that having writers and directors that know the story as well as D and D do could make the show more satisfying for book-readers, and yes, some of the lines/scenes throughout the years have had me scratching my head.

But! I have enjoyed watching the actors so much that I tend to overlook the hiccups. I've gotten a little sappy over the deaths of certain characters, simply because I'm going to miss the actors so much. :crying:

All in all, I admire what the showrunners are attempting, and look forward to what they do in season 5.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

What they're doing is only good if you're either ignorant of the source material or just have extremely low expectations. Honestly, on its own, without even there being a ASoIaF, GoT is just average television. Great sets and costumes, and a great overarching story, but deplorable writing and characterization.

Like the upcoming finale, for instance. Say they include Lady Stoneheart (there's a possibility that they, in their idiocy, eliminate her altogether). There has been absolutely zero suspense about anything in the Riverlands to this point. No Arya warging through Nymeria. No reports of hanging Freys. No nothing. All of a sudden, Cat is going to reappear out of the blue. Instead of building up a sense of dread and foreboding, they just force it in there. Meanwhile, we have 10 minutes of Grey Worm and Missandei's pointless romance and Tyrion's beetle soliloquy.

[Commander Jon Snow]

That is your opinion and you're entitled to that. I personally believe that the writing has been very good and unlike most here, I don't put the source material on a pedestal. D&D are doing great in my opinion