HBO, Producers Respond to Controversy

[Aegnor]

A lot of progressives believe George W was guilty of treason, or worse.

And those people are freaking idiots. Just like those Obama birthers. It's just the stupid political crap we have to deal with nowadays.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Well, I guess this is interesting. So to the extent political conservatives are upset because they believe the producers deliberately put Bush's head up there, it seems that some people who support the use of the head actually agree with those conservatives that it was deliberate. The only disagreement is whether or not they subjective approve of such a decision.

That's kind of interesting, because I suspect a lot of the response to conservatives is going to be "get over it, it was an accident."

[Aegnor]

Well, I guess this is interesting. So to the extent political conservatives are upset because they believe the producers deliberately put Bush's head up there, it seems that some people who support the use of the head actually agree with those conservatives that it was deliberate. The only disagreement is whether or not they subjective approve of such a decision.

That's kind of interesting, because I suspect a lot of the response to conservatives is going to be "get over it, it was an accident."

I responded to your post calling you a bunch of names, but I don't think that is helpful, so I erased it before hitting post.

One idiot in this thread said that they thought it was intentional and that they supported it. One. So then you are using the response of that one person to frame the argument into two sides, both saying it was intentional, with some supporting it, and some against it. Meanwhile the overwhelming majority are sitting on the sidelines.

Seriously?

[Khal Pono]

I responded to your post calling you a bunch of names, but I don't think that is helpful, so I erased it before hitting post.

One idiot in this thread said that they thought it was intentional and that they supported it. One. So then you are using the response of that one person to frame the argument into two sides, both saying it was intentional, with some supporting it, and some against it. Meanwhile the overwhelming majority are sitting on the sidelines.

Seriously?

Hey, don't call me an idiot; that's not nice. But other than, you are correct. I wholeheartedly support the gesture and I'm 100% sure D&D did it on purpose and only backed off when HBO twisted their arms and made them apologize (because HBO is coming out with a GHW Bush documentary soon).

They apologized and pretty much lied about their intention because it was the only graceful way out. I think they should have stuck to their guns, but that's not always practical in this world.

[Nipz]

Because you don't put a replica of a presidents head on stakes that are reserved for offenders of treason. Pretty distasteful.

He is guilty of treason. Does that make it more appropriate now? Whatever, though man, it's your constitution. lol

[salt]

Hey, don't call me an idiot; that's not nice. But other than, you are correct. I wholeheartedly support the gesture and I'm 100% sure D&D did it on purpose and only backed off when HBO twisted their arms and made them apologize (because HBO is coming out with a GHW Bush documentary soon).

They apologized and pretty much lied about their intention because it was the only graceful way out. I think they should have stuck to their guns, but that's not always practical in this world.

I am 100% sure you make me want to bang my head against a wall. Support whatever imaginary gestures you want, but please don't suggest that is formed from anything other than baseless speculation. The apology doesn't deny that they used an old Bush prosthetic head, it doesn't say its coincidence that they looked similar. That doesn't mean that D&D personally knew it was modeled after Bush before the scene was filmed, and it certainly doesn't mean that they specifically sought it out or used it for the purpose of making a statement.

If D&D actually are the sort of people to try to inject their personal political commentary into the show through some sort of petulent stunt like this, then its a travesty that they were allowed to get their hands anywhere near Martin's work. But I don't believe that is the case.

[Khal Pono]

I am 100% sure you make me want to bang my head against a wall. Support whatever imaginary gestures you want, but please don't suggest that is formed from anything other than baseless speculation. The apology doesn't deny that they used an old Bush prosthetic head, it doesn't say its coincidence that they looked similar. That doesn't mean that D&D personally knew it was modeled after Bush before the scene was filmed, and it certainly doesn't mean that they specifically sought it out or used it for the purpose of making a statement.

If D&D actually are the sort of people to try to inject their personal political commentary into the show through some sort of petulent stunt like this, then its a travesty that they were allowed to get their hands anywhere near Martin's work. But I don't believe that is the case.

I'm sorry; did you hear the DVD commentary? They're practically giggling about it (as I was). After they've had their yuks, one of them says rather cheekily "but we're not trying to make a political statement; that was just the head we had lying around".

I know D&D's type. I grew up around them; went to school with their type. It was a prank, but it does reflect their political leanings.

Read between the lines. A man sees. A man hears. A man knows.

[Ran]

Having seen the box o' heads when I visited the set two years ago, what is far more likely is that some prop department person grabbed that particular head because he or she thought it amusing. the whole scene was arranged, and somewhere in the course of filming it was pointed out to D&D.

I very much doubt they told anyone to purchase a GW head, I very much doubt they told anyone to grab that particular head for that particular scene. But once informed, did they think it funny? Sure. I expect they would have found it funny if it was Al Pacino's head, too. Did they decide to reshoot or get the head changed as soon as they were informed? No. Should they have? Up to you.

But certainly, I can't imagine they directed someone to specifically get Bush's head on a spike.

[salt]

I'm sorry; did you hear the DVD commentary? They're practically giggling about it (as I was). After they've had their yuks, one of them says rather cheekily "but we're not trying to make a political statement; that was just the head we had lying around".

I know D&D's type. I grew up around them; went to school with their type. It was a prank, but it does reflect their political leanings.

Read between the lines. A man sees. A man hears. A man knows.

Khal, its interesting you 'liked' the post above me, as it contradicts what you're saying. I completely agree with it. It is funny, if I was working on the show and got an old Bush prostehtic for the pike scene, I'd probably be making jokes about how House Bush was clearly sworn to Highgarden. That has nothing to do with political leanings; as Loco said, it would have been as funny if it was any celebrity, even more so if they had able to make one of GRRM.

That doesnt mean it was on prupose, that doesn't mean they sought out a Bush head to put on a pike, and it doesn't mean that there was any sort of political statement involved. Thinking you know their "type" is very strange. The fact that after hearing them talk for a few hours their commentary reminded you of childhood friends does not qualify you to decide that you are 100 percent certain of the motives of two men you have never met.

To me, this is an awesome Easter Egg, the type of funny thing that makes DVD commentary worth listening to. If it was actually politcal commentary, thats pathetic.

[Tyrionthebest]

Having seen the box o' heads when I visited the set two years ago, what is far more likely is that some prop department person grabbed that particular head because he or she thought it amusing. the whole scene was arranged, and somewhere in the course of filming it was pointed out to D&D.

I very much doubt they told anyone to price a GW head, I very much doubt they told anyone to grab that particular head for that particular scene. But once informed, did they think it funny? Sure. I expect they would have found it funny if it was Al Pacino's head, too. Did they decide to reshoot or get the head changed as soon as they were informed? No.bShould they have? Up to you.

But certainly, I can't imagine they directed someone to specifically get Bush's head on a spike.

Wow, sorry for being offtopic here but i did not even recognise it was you, Elio ! When did you modify your account ?

[Aegnor]

I'm sorry; did you hear the DVD commentary? They're practically giggling about it (as I was). After they've had their yuks, one of them says rather cheekily "but we're not trying to make a political statement; that was just the head we had lying around".

I heard the DVD commentary, and I believe your interpretation of it to be skewed by your political views. Some people view everything around them through the prism of their political beliefs. Every event is to be evaluated for how it affects their chosen politics.

[Khal Pono]

Khal, its interesting you 'liked' the post above me, as it contradicts what you're saying. I completely agree with it. It is pretty funny, if I was working on the show and got an old Bush prostehtic for the pike scene, I'd probably be making jokes about how House Bush was clearly sworn to Highgarden.

That doesnt mean it was on prupose, that doesn't mean they sought out a Bush head to put on a pike, and it doesn't mean that there was any sort of political statement involved. Thinking you know their "type" is very strange. The fact that after hearing them talk for a few hours their commentary reminded you of childhood friends does not qualify you to decide that you are 100 percent certain of the motives of two men you have never met.

Deeds are what define us, not "intentions" which are secret and known only to us and can easily be lied about.

If they had the "intention" not to disrespect the former president; they would have edited out the head or not said anything on the DVD commentary. If the head was of someone they deeply revered (I dunno, say, Gandhi or Che Guevara or something), their political leanings would have made them thing twice before making a joke of it.

They thought it was funny, in part, because Bush is at the very least an enormous dope and he's reviled by progressives, and a lot of people would like to see him tried and executed for war crimes. This kind of stuff need not be explained.

It is of course also funny on the absurd, anachronistic level (like the Al Pacino example given above); I won't deny that.

[salt]

I don't see where respect or political leaning comes into play. Its funny to have to get the prosthetic head of a recognized, well known celebrity when finging props for Joffrey's victims. To me, DVD commentary was invented for gems like this.

As for your argument that it was a delibertae statement jammed into the adaptation as a nod to their personal political views, all I can say is that I truly, truly hope you're mistaken. If that is the character of D&D, it's a shame that they were allowed to be the ones to adapt ASOIAF.

[IceGal]

What I found hilarious was Fox new's sensationalist reporting. Their headline reads "HBO's Game of Thrones parades President George W. Bush's decapitated head on a stick"

Someone reading that might think HBO has declared war on America :bang:

http://www.foxnews.c...-head-on-stick/

[Khal Pono]

Khal, its interesting you 'liked' the post above me, as it contradicts what you're saying.

Not entirely. I don't recall saying that D&D specifically sought out a GWB bush head and ordered the props people to include it in the scene. If I did, let me know.

I merely posited that that the inclusion (or as Elio more accurately puts, the decision not to exclude the head once they realized what it was) was an intentional and politically motivated joke.

[Horus Ex Machina]

How was it stupid to mention it? It DID look like him. It's a fact. A shame that HBO and D&D have had to waste any time on this, better things to be getting on with.

Not that I think that this should have been an issue at all, but they've been living in this country for the past decade and are familiar with the 24 hour news stations and how they like to sensationalize EVERYTHING. Noone would have noticed this if D&D hadn't mentioned it. As it was it took months after the DVD was released for this to even make it to the press. Still it's a shit story and proof that politics has totally gone off the deep end.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Having seen the box o' heads when I visited the set two years ago, what is far more likely is that some prop department person grabbed that particular head because he or she thought it amusing. the whole scene was arranged, and somewhere in the course of filming it was pointed out to D&D.

I very much doubt they told anyone to price a GW head, I very much doubt they told anyone to grab that particular head for that particular scene. But once informed, did they think it funny? Sure. I expect they would have found it funny if it was Al Pacino's head, too. Did they decide to reshoot or get the head changed as soon as they were informed? No.bShould they have? Up to you.

But certainly, I can't imagine they directed someone to specifically get Bush's head on a spike.

I actually agree with that. The idea that they directed someone to get Bush's head is completely unbelievable to me. Now, might they have actually looked a bit more at the heads before filming it, and known it was Bush before they filmed it? Yeah, I suspect so. The angle of the head from the still isn't something that would jump out to you as Bush, so I suspect the claim they only noticed it after filming is untrue. Seems more likely someone picked out the head, there were some funny jokes about it, and they decided not to replace it.

Personally, I don't care. I don't watch this stuff because of the politics of the people who tend make TV shows is hardly a secret, and unless it was something very noticeable on TV, I could care less. I pretty much agree that it is kind of funny.

My only point is that I think dismissing those who are offended by saying "oh, it was an accident and completely unintentional", is sketchy. There's certainly enough situational ambiguity to believe that they knew what they were doing when the filmed it.

[Khal Pono]

What I found hilarious was Fox new's sensationalist reporting. Their headline reads "HBO's Game of Thrones parades President George W. Bush's decapitated head on a stick"

Someone reading that might think HBO has declared war on America :bang:

http://www.foxnews.c...-head-on-stick/

I love it!

[Horus Ex Machina]

Not entirely. I don't recall saying that D&D specifically sought out a GWB bush head and ordered the props people to include it in the scene. If I did, let me know.

I merely posited that that the inclusion (or as Elio more accurately puts, the decision not to exclude the head once they realized what it was) was an intentional and politically motivated joke.

Productions use props and images that are modeled after producers and crewmembers all the time and even remark on it and nothing comes of it. Noone blames the producers of making fun of their crew and coworkers. They hid the face, noone would have ever been able to tell if they hadn't mentioned it. They were rambling, as one does, and felt that an funny inside joke might make a bit of interesting trivia. And that's where they screwed up.

[salt]

Not entirely. I don't recall saying that D&D specifically sought out a GWB bush head and ordered the props people to include it in the scene. If I did, let me know.

I merely posited that that the inclusion (or as Elio more accurately puts, the decision not to exclude the head once they realized what it was) was an intentional and politically motivated joke.

Which I wholeheartedly disagree with. As Elio said, I think it would have been the same if it had been al Al Pacino head or a George Bush head, something funny to joke about with the prop crew.

Why are you so certain that D&D are lying? Isn't it possible they they just recognized it was funny as hell? Once you get a celebrity's prostehtic head, how could you not use it?