Who will win the battle of Winterfell?

[Cas Stark]

I'm of the opinion that the shows have turned GRRM's story inside out, only to eventually get back to the same place.

D&D have Stannis losing and the Boltons in control of Winterfell as the army of the dead advances south. (I particularly liked the way Ramsey Bolton just cleaned off his sword and left the dead soldiers there on the ground without burning or burying them at all. That's going to come back to bite him.)

I think GRRM will have Stannis win Winterfell and send for his family in the aftermath of the Red Letter. Then the Others advance, then he will sacrifice Shireen, then the North will abandon him, and then he will fall to the Others.

But time will tell. We'll see.

That could work. It would work better than what the show did, certainly.

[Associate Maester]

I think all the show tells us is what most of us already know. Stannis is doomed like a doomed thing. The arc of his tragedy may be different, but he's going to die without ever taking the Iron Throne. I don't think we can infer anything more from his tv arc than that. The circumstances are so different and it really felt like they just wanted to close off his entire arc to make room for relevant end-game stuff and storylines more relevant for how they are telling GRRM's story. GRRM and D&D repeatedly warned that the Butterfly Effect will get bigger. So I still think Stannis wins the Battle of Ice. We don't know what will happen with Winterfell.

[Hos the Hostage]

If Stannis is dead on the show, it leads me to believe this:

When he takes Theon to the tree as is suggested in the Gift Chapter -- Asha (or anyone really) ambushes him and he dies at the tree...

Giving the tree blood-sacrifice of a king.

I think that's why the show had him leaned up against a tree when Brienne finds him.

So *if* he's dead (lord I hope not but w/e)... I think he will be killed at the tree instead of Theon.

Edit: Spelling

I like this idea. Even the 'Beautiful Death' had shown the cut on the tree trunk.

In battles like this in GRRM's world, we always see the underdogs triumphing. (Which is why I am hopeful about a Stannis victory)

Asha and the IB are the worst positioned in the battle of ice, and the most shocking twist will be them winning.

[TheReal_Rebel]

I'm of the opinion that the shows have turned GRRM's story inside out, only to eventually get back to the same place.

D&D have Stannis losing and the Boltons in control of Winterfell as the army of the dead advances south. (I particularly liked the way Ramsey Bolton just cleaned off his sword and left the dead soldiers there on the ground without burning or burying them at all. That's going to come back to bite him.)

I think GRRM will have Stannis win Winterfell and send for his family in the aftermath of the Red Letter. Then the Others advance, then he will sacrifice Shireen, then the North will abandon him, and then he will fall to the Others.

But time will tell. We'll see.

I would prefer your sequence of events and a triumph of Stannis's strategy over the Bolton's.

Yet, the Others taking the Boltons first would also be satisfying.

But aren't the Umbers further North then Winterfell? Wouldn't they fall first?

I don't believe the Wall will come down but that someway around it is found by the Others seems more plausible to me.

[Ser Eric]

I'm of the opinion that the shows have turned GRRM's story inside out, only to eventually get back to the same place.

D&D have Stannis losing and the Boltons in control of Winterfell as the army of the dead advances south. (I particularly liked the way Ramsey Bolton just cleaned off his sword and left the dead soldiers there on the ground without burning or burying them at all. That's going to come back to bite him.)

I think GRRM will have Stannis win Winterfell and send for his family in the aftermath of the Red Letter. Then the Others advance, then he will sacrifice Shireen, then the North will abandon him, and then he will fall to the Others.

But time will tell. We'll see.

It will take some mighty fine tracking back from GRRM if Stannis is to burn Shireen in the books.

[intheswamp]

I think Stannis will win the battle, but afterwards the northerners won't back him. He doesn't have many southern soldiers left with him (and they're dropping like flies in the winter weather) and he spends his nights burning people to death and worshipping a strange god.

[nickdt]

I think Stannis will win the battle, but afterwards the northerners won't back him. He doesn't have many southern soldiers left with him (and they're dropping like flies in the winter weather) and he spends his nights burning people to death and worshipping a strange god.

Look, if Stannis is executing Theon before a hearttree, that is in the ways of the Old Gods. Also, Theon is despised by the Northerners. When Stannis does that, he will gain the support and if Davos also returns with Rickon (Davos is the Hand of Stannis), that will show that Stannis has it good with the North. The North are supporters of the wall, most of them send there youngest sons to the wall. Or some older sons go, by free will. They will not forget Stannis is the only one of the Kings to have come to the walls aid and thus has shown that he cares about all parts of the kingdom.

[Cayrouse]

Before S5E10. I was sure Stannis would. Plot purpose and so on... but now not so much. We can only Pray

[twikee]

Stannis, please. I pray to the old Gods, the Seven, the Drowned God and the Lord of Light for him to be victorious.

:agree:

[Ben H'gahr]

Before S5E10. I was sure Stannis would. Plot purpose and so on... but now not so much. We can only Pray

I think D&D wanted Stannis simply to be out of the way.

Also they hate him very much. I think their subjectivity got the better of them with regards to this decision.

Don't forget: he is supposed to be the best military commander in Westeros. The best military commander in Westeros will not march upon a fortress w/o siege equipment, in broad daylight, with no reconnaissance/protection on his flanks. No Sir, it will not be like this in the books.

Even if he loses (Seven Hells no!) he will give his opponents helluva fight.

[Yukle]

Don't forget: he is supposed to be the best military commander in Westeros. The best military commander in Westeros will not march upon a fortress w/o siege equipment, in broad daylight, with no reconnaissance/protection on his flanks. No Sir, it will not be like this in the books.

I agree! This is the man who defeated the Iron Islands AT SEA! So he is a better commander than people whose ships are their lifeblood. He isn't a crappy weakling, as portrayed in the show. And he gained most of what he had without much assistance - the Iron Bank, for instance, didn't arrive until after he began his campaign in the North. It's so much better that way, just to have Stannis being much more in control than what is shown in the show.

However, the show's portrayal of what happens, appalling story-telling aside, along with the "Bastard letter" have me resigned to the horrible fact that Stannis probably loses the battle of Winterfell. :( Many northerners will die, trapped between Roose's scheming and the winter storms, but it looks as though Stannis is finally beaten. :(

[MorpHDoc]

Don't forget: he is supposed to be the best military commander in Westeros. The best military commander in Westeros will not march upon a fortress w/o siege equipment, in broad daylight, with no reconnaissance/protection on his flanks. No Sir, it will not be like this in the books.

Even if he loses (Seven Hells no!) he will give his opponents helluva fight.

I disagree. He became a broken man after killing his only child, his wife suicide and being abandoned by the only person he took council from...basically, he was so blind with the betrayal he marched onto the Winterfell.

If Stannis was still surrounded by his most trusted people perhaps his decision would be to remain at the forest line and come up with some proper tactics.

[Mr Hodor]

Before S5E10. I was sure Stannis would. Plot purpose and so on... but now not so much. We can only Pray

Show stannis is an idiot. Book Ramsay does not have 20 good men with him.

I disagree. He became a broken man after killing his only child, his wife suicide and being abandoned by the only person he took council from...basically, he was so blind with the betrayal he marched onto the Winterfell.

If Stannis was still surrounded by his most trusted people perhaps his decision would be to remain at the forest line and come up with some proper tactics.

Even if he was shellshocked, he would have sent scouts. The decision to randomly come with a rag tag army at the gates of winterfell was the most idiotic decision ever

[Ser Rakkis]

I disagree. He became a broken man after killing his only child, his wife suicide and being abandoned by the only person he took council from...basically, he was so blind with the betrayal he marched onto the Winterfell.

I think that's one of the things that felt rushed in this season, he did lose everything, but we didn't have a moment for him to confront his lost and decide, we didn't see the change in the character. Book Stannis situation is different, he still has reasons to wait (if he wrote the pink letter, for instance). The whole "hey, I have an idea let's burn my daughter" makes sense if the enemy is not human. That could, however, happen before the battle of winter, or the battle against the Boltons. For what we know, there are dead things in the water, and if the Others overrun the wall, the weather is not going to slow their march.

[Shpati]

Yea, I agree with some of these posts. The way D & D did things won't correlate with the books regarding this battle. I honestly think there will a lot more Stannis in the next book, not just the March and Battle of Winterfell. So i think THAT was the issue with D & D since they want to be done with this show in 7 seasons, which requires killing off characters prematurely.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Agreed. We all watched them kill off Baristan early. I also noted that the show had to twist the plot of Brienne just to get her near Stannis as well, so its possible she kills him in the books, which would mean he has to survive the battle.

[Samson]

This has really made me think over WTF is gonna happen.

I would have bet some cash, I mean a couple hundred bucks in a gambling prop, that *in the show* - Stannis was gonna romp on the Bolton's insolent asses and he was going to take back Winterfell, and Jon would be summoned to Winterfell to be reunited with his family and house and THAT was going to be the reason he gets hurt by the Night's Watch. I was absolutely and I mean absolutely SHOCKED to see Stannis get his Toasty! on with his daughter Shireen (and I will say they represented what I feel were the highlight and lowlight episodes of the season.... seeing Shireen look at her daughter with her eyes starting to well up with tears, and be told the story of the greyscale... and be told, "YOU ARE *THE PRINCESS SHIREEN OF HOUSE BARATHEON OF DRAGONSTONE..... AND You're MY DAUGHTER!!!* that was so amazing. The sacrifice was disgusting.)

To see Stannis literally lose everything *BEFORE THE DARN BATTLE* and then get pasted to the tundra by the Boltons.... I would have lost a lot of money.... and it really makes me think ,is that what GRRM has in store? It was quite clear that the HBO guys said "When George told us about Shireen..." as if that was going to happen in the book, it makes me think they are operating on inside info and we were looking at the future of the storyline (the real, book storyline).

But damned if I think that new storyline of dead, loser Stannis and pro-Bolton legacy sucks lemons. I hope it's a complete 180 difference in the real story but it makes me worry , to say the least.

[John Reynolds]

I don't know why people are so worried, the show has demonstrated it completely abandons the books whenever DnD choose to do so. Season 5 foreshadows nothing for book 6, sets nothing in stone. And even if events are similar, they will be far more satisfying and true to character in TWoW than the show.

[mbuehner]

I think all the show tells us is what most of us already know. Stannis is doomed like a doomed thing. The arc of his tragedy may be different, but he's going to die without ever taking the Iron Throne. I don't think we can infer anything more from his tv arc than that. The circumstances are so different and it really felt like they just wanted to close off his entire arc to make room for relevant end-game stuff and storylines more relevant for how they are telling GRRM's story. GRRM and D&D repeatedly warned that the Butterfly Effect will get bigger. So I still think Stannis wins the Battle of Ice. We don't know what will happen with Winterfell.

In the long run we're all doomed.

[mbuehner]

I don't know why people are so worried, the show has demonstrated it completely abandons the books whenever DnD choose to do so. Season 5 foreshadows nothing for book 6, sets nothing in stone. And even if events are similar, they will be far more satisfying and true to character in TWoW than the show.

Exactly. Somehow people don't get the show HAS to abandon the books. There's no more books. Even if Winds came out tomorrow, the show has to be written and produced and filmed. And then they have to have another season the following year etc... and Martin sure as h*&$ isn't going to write a book a year, or a book every three years for that matter.