Dragonsteel Theory

[The Unburnt Hound]

Irony would be that the Iron Throne needs to be melted down to create a weapon to defeat the Others. Therefore nobody gets the Iron Throne.

[OldManDennis]

Dragonsteel is unlikely to be meteorite iron... Dawn is mentioned as that and is considered not dragonsteel. Also meteorite impacts are usually quite rare (whatever made Dawn is the only mentioned one that I can think of) and distributed randomly around the world. It would be tough for the Valarians to get all the meteorites that impact all over the world to make all the dragonsteel they need.

Also, materials that are suitable for knives or spear/arrow heads may not be suitable for swords. Fun fact - the ancient Greeks had swords, but they mainly fought with spears. That is because bronze swords are terrible - ancient histories mention having to **STRAIGHTEN OUT YOUR SWORD BETWEEN YOUR BOOT AND THE GROUND** every few cuts. The Romans came along with tactics optimized for reliable iron swords, and that was it for imperial Greek ambitions. Obsidian probably would be similar - a spear or arrowhead might be strong enough to pierce armor that tends to melt when it gets hit, but a sword made out of rock/glass that length would be highly likely to shatter.

[rmholt]

Dragonsteel is unlikely to be meteorite iron... Dawn is mentioned as that and is considered not dragonsteel. Also meteorite impacts are usually quite rare (whatever made Dawn is the only mentioned one that I can think of) and distributed randomly around the world. It would be tough for the Valarians to get all the meteorites that impact all over the world to make all the dragonsteel they need.

Also, materials that are suitable for knives or spear/arrow heads may not be suitable for swords. Fun fact - the ancient Greeks had swords, but they mainly fought with spears. That is because bronze swords are terrible - ancient histories mention having to **STRAIGHTEN OUT YOUR SWORD BETWEEN YOUR BOOT AND THE GROUND** every few cuts. The Romans came along with tactics optimized for reliable iron swords, and that was it for imperial Greek ambitions. Obsidian probably would be similar - a spear or arrowhead might be strong enough to pierce armor that tends to melt when it gets hit, but a sword made out of rock/glass that length would be highly likely to shatter.

Starfall is where Dawn is. As in falling star.

The nights watch got rid of the Others, 8000 years ago. Not the Valyrians. Obsidian and Dragonsteel so far are the only effective weapons against Others. The Last Hero cut up an Other, armor and all, with a Dragonsteel sword.

The Others have swords made of Special Ice.

Marie

[Which Tyler]

couple of quick points - your average sword is probably more "bendy" than your average bow; so I really wouldn't discount that theory based on that factor. I'd also point out that dragon bone seems to be a very different material than normal bone; so simply saying that normal bone wouldn't be a good material to use does not mean that dragon bones would be a poor choice of material to use.

I'd always assumed that dragonsteel, was steel which used dragon ones as part of the forging process. We know that calcium and carbon are important in making steel, we know that dragon bone contains iron (high quantities than normal bone), and there's a pretty good chance that dragon bone has some magical properties in and of itself.

However, I find the reminder that the First Men were a bronze age civilisation a very convincing argument against dragonsteel being any kind of actual steel. If you don't have access to ironworking knowledge and equipment, then there's no way in hell, you're going to be able to make and work steel.

I now have no idea whatsoever dragonsteel actually was; but feel confident that it either isn't steel, or GRRM has cocked up.

[rmholt]

couple of quick points - your average sword is probably more "bendy" than your average bow; so I really wouldn't discount that theory based on that factor. I'd also point out that dragon bone seems to be a very different material than normal bone; so simply saying that normal bone wouldn't be a good material to use does not mean that dragon bones would be a poor choice of material to use.

I'd always assumed that dragonsteel, was steel which used dragon ones as part of the forging process. We know that calcium and carbon are important in making steel, we know that dragon bone contains iron (high quantities than normal bone), and there's a pretty good chance that dragon bone has some magical properties in and of itself.

However, I find the reminder that the First Men were a bronze age civilisation a very convincing argument against dragonsteel being any kind of actual steel. If you don't have access to ironworking knowledge and equipment, then there's no way in hell, you're going to be able to make and work steel.

I now have no idea whatsoever dragonsteel actually was; but feel confident that it either isn't steel, or GRRM has cocked up.

Dragons dont make dragonglass.

I like your point about dragon bone having high iron content however.

[Dragonfish]

I now have no idea whatsoever dragonsteel actually was; but feel confident that it either isn't steel, or GRRM has cocked up.

I'm of the belief that "dragonsteel" is actually a mistranslation of a First Men rune describing the use of dragons as weapons. We know there used to be dragons everywhere, so this theory has the benefit of not contradicting the known history, unlike the theory that dragonsteel=Valyrian steel.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

I'm sure someone has said this before but...

Valyrian Steel:

- Lighter than normal steel

- Stronger than Normal Steel

- Smokey Colored

Dragon Bone:

- Lighter than steel

- More flexible than steel

- Black

- almost impervious to heat

I've heard people discussing an SSM where GRRM denies that Valyrian Steel IS dragonbone, but I don't think anyone has ever asked if its a steel iron/dragonbone alloy. Since dragons are obviously very heat resistant, perhaps the alloy can only be created by with dragon flame, but can be reworked as Tobo Mott does with out melting it.

Explains:

- Color : Since it is steel/iron, but also has the blackness of dragon bones mixed in

- Lightness : Since it's partially steel/iron and partially composed of the lighter dragonbone

- Strength : Strength and Hardness aren't necessarily the same thing in a sword. Samurai Swords for example were folded and pounded to insure that softer lower carbon steel was at the core of the blade providing more flexibility(its still steel mind you) and shatter protection while high carbon steel was prominent towards the blade to insure that it was hard enough to cut, and not be cut. Maybe the concentrations of carbon/iron/steel were controlled in a similar manner.

So I'm saying dragonsteel = valyrian steel

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I'm of the belief that "dragonsteel" is actually a mistranslation of a First Men rune describing the use of dragons as weapons. We know there used to be dragons everywhere, so this theory has the benefit of not contradicting the known history, unlike the theory that dragonsteel=Valyrian steel.

Obviously, based on my previous posts...I fully agree.

I wanted to add that everyone should look at the description of 'dragonsteel' killing an Other and Drogon killing the slave master in Astapor...they're identical. I will post the quotes when I get the chance.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Why would there be an extra rune if it was just dragons. I think dragon steel makes the most sense. As a steel weapon that can go against the other's ice weapons. That makes no sense to me. Unless dragonsteel translated to dragonfire in runespeak.

[StuSeaworth]

They knowledge to forge valyrian steel was long long ago, but it seems to be nearly as easy to "rework" than other castle forged steel. I don't remember specifically which one, but there were mentions of Maesters with valarian steel links in their chain.

[Garion Snow]

Maybe dragon steel means steel forged in dragon blood. We know that dragon blood is 'boiling' (GRRM has gone to great lengths to describe it) so it must be hot enough to forge steel.

[Dragonfish]

Why would there be an extra rune if it was just dragons. I think dragon steel makes the most sense. As a steel weapon that can go against the other's ice weapons. That makes no sense to me. Unless dragonsteel translated to dragonfire in runespeak.

I don't understand what your argument is. Are you supporting or arguing against the idea that dragonsteel refers to an actual steel sword?

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Why would there be an extra rune if it was just dragons. I think dragon steel makes the most sense. As a steel weapon that can go against the other's ice weapons. That makes no sense to me. Unless dragonsteel translated to dragonfire in runespeak.

Because someone may have simply incorrectly written 'dragonsteel', but you're definitely entitled to your own opinion. Why must 'dragonsteel' have a literal translation? It could simply be an error of words. Consider the way the term 'steel' is used throughout the novels.

[Im no Ser]

Never discount oral histories which may be transcribed later. Perhaps an old word turned into dragonsteel verbally.

It has to be. As noted elsewhere steel is introduced to Westeros by the Andals. Without "steel", there is no reason to call another substance "dragonsteel". The term "dragonsteel" has to be from the Andal period, and is then imported into a pre-Andal oral history.

[Lion of Judah]

I was of the belief that dragon steel was dragon bone forged together with Valryian steel. Could be completely wrong but weren't they mentioned as almost one in the same? Like I said I could be wrong, but I always viewed it as a lost art of forging Valryian steel since they became so rare.

[Dragonfish]

I was of the belief that dragon steel was dragon bone forged together with Valryian steel. Could be completely wrong but weren't they mentioned as almost one in the same? Like I said I could be wrong, but I always viewed it as a lost art of forging Valryian steel since they became so rare.

Dragonsteel and dragon bone have never been described as one and the same, if that's what you mean. Jon and Sam do assume that dragonsteel is Valyrian steel, but there's nothing to say their assumption is correct.

[Zupoleon]

Dragonsteel and dragon bone have never been described as one and the same, if that's what you mean. Jon and Sam do assume that dragonsteel is Valyrian steel, but there's nothing to say their assumption is correct.

True. Something tells me that it's not as simple as Sam and Jon infer, but that's just my hunch...

[Lion of Judah]

Dragonsteel and dragon bone have never been described as one and the same, if that's what you mean. Jon and Sam do assume that dragonsteel is Valyrian steel, but there's nothing to say their assumption is correct.

Thanks for clarifying that I guess if they are not sure then we can't be either.

[RightfulHeir]

I believe that Dragonsteel is a metal formed when Obsidian and Valryian steel are melted down and mixed together. I don't have any real textual evidence for this theory, just what I consider logic.

DRAGONglass+Valryian STEEL=Dragonsteel

Furthermore, it would make sense considering that the Last Hero would have needed some kind of special weapon. Valryian steel is light and sharp, making Wights no problem. Dragonglass grants he who wields it the feat of slaying Others. Thus, it would have been the perfect weapon for a prophesized hero like the Last Hero.

If my theory is correct then Dragonsteel would be the song of ice and fire:

-Dragonglass comes from the Lands of Always Winter.

-Valryian steel came from a volcanic landmass known as Valryia.

I am aware that this is borderline crackpot, but I just want to put it out there.

[Luddagain]

Maybe the Others are a sort of SciFi creature operating on magnetic fields. Then the idea of Valyrian sword made of steel with Silicon (obsidian) is not so stupid.