Black Crow Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It would be a great plot twist if Azor Azai isn't Jon Snow but someone else. Podric Payne?:SThere are a great many people on this forum who do not believe and have good evidence for not believing that Jon Snow is Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeMikeHoncho Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Maybe Daenerys becomes the Queen who kneeled?she already has, ask daario. da-bump bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 she already has, ask daario. da-bump bump.So this is the meaning of blowing the horn three times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar95 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 So this is the meaning of blowing the horn three times? :cheers:You sir just made my day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icehands Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 After reading all of these posts, i suspect if Jon Snow isnt the first Pov chapter in WoW, You all will just skip ahead to it :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltway Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I have a theory that UnCatelyn will learn of her children being alive, and will gather them. In the process, it is quite possible that she will learn the truth about Jon from Howland. I have always thought that it would be very fitting for UnCat to be the only one that could bring Jon back, and only at the cost of her own life, as Beric did for her. Melisandre may see things that are true in her fires, but her skills are limited to that, her illusions, and shadow magic; with her skill at interpretation being highly suspect. I see Mel becoming a dark force in the future, and I don't want Jon to have any truck with her at all. If he does, he is likely to get abused by her.Not so sure about the Uncat part I suspect Brienne will have a change of heart and Sacrifice Her self Killing Uncat and Hoping Jaime, Pod, and Hyle will be able to get away, Other than that Mel has "Fire Power's" but they are weaker than any other Named Red Mage we have seen.I also find the way she describes R'hllor and The other to be suspicous and I think her to be more Akin to the "Others" Unless of course they Happen to be The Lawful Neutral like I suspect in which case she would be on the Side of the "Bad guys"Forgive my grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It would be a great plot twist if Azor Azai isn't Jon Snow but someone else. Podric Payne?:SI think Samwell Tarley is a more likely candidate for Azor... Jon's future will be totally different from what books 1-5 have lead readers to expect from Jon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Why do so many people think there must be an "Azor Ahai " at all ?Oh ,I think that there will probably be someone that the followers of R'hllor will be able to rationalize to themselves fits the prophecy.. but that doesn't mean they'll be right.. that the person is Azor Ahai , or that there ever was a real Azor Ahai ( as they tell the story ) to begin with ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis the Wight Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I don't believe that he is dead and will be resurrected.I believe he is seriously injured and will fall into a coma. He will enter a state of consciousness similar to a spiritual out of body experience and see many things that he can't fully understand or explain.... eventually he will warg into Ghost and be lead to Bran & Bloodraven. They will fill him in on some new found truths about his past and the Others. But in order for this journey to be effective to the plot Jon will need to be able to comprehend through Ghost like Bran does through Summer. Varamyr mentions how Jon has the gift much like he does, so maybe this is how Jon learns to truly wear Ghost's skin and still remain consciously independent.When he wakes up Castle Black is for the most part deserted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I don't think Jon would need to be unconscious for any great length of time to experience a major breakthrough. Already both he and Arya ( especially ) experience things through animals while conscious ( Arya and the cat, Jon when he shut the sensations out , telling himself No. I'm a man , not a wolf )And Bran would have no need to disguise his appearance in dreams as Bloodraven had to do . Bran and Jon have already communicated through dreams.. I don't think Ghost would have to undertake a long and dangerous journey.Once that breakthrough is made, Jon has an adept tutor at hand in Borroq , to help guide him in practice.Varamyr thought himself greater than Borroq, but I don't think he was . His powers were as misspent as Jon's would be if he never developed them.He was rapacious and cruel . He lived vicariously through his wolves and had no respect for the animals he bonded with, forcing himself on them.His scorn for Borroq probably is a sign that Borroq is more judicious and a much more suitable mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis the Wight Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I don't think Jon would need to be unconscious for any great length of time to experience a major breakthrough. Already both he and Arya ( especially ) experience things through animals while conscious ( Arya and the cat, Jon when he shut the sensations out , telling himself No. I'm a man , not a wolf )And Bran would have no need to disguise his appearance in dreams as Bloodraven had to do . Bran and Jon have already communicated through dreams.. I don't think Ghost would have to undertake a long and dangerous journey.Once that breakthrough is made, Jon has an adept tutor at hand in Borroq , to help guide him in practice.Varamyr thought himself greater than Borroq, but I don't think he was . His powers were as misspent as Jon's would be if he never developed them.He was rapacious and cruel . He lived vicariously through his wolves and had no respect for the animals he bonded with, forcing himself on them.His scorn for Borroq probably is a sign that Borroq is more judicious and a much more suitable mentor.This is true, he doesn't need Ghost to speak with Bran. I wonder though if the coma angle could work is who would have saved his body and where would they have put it? Would Melisandre play some sort of role in his awakening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Gee ' I'm hoping not...( but that's me..I'm in the camp that feels Mel's fire magic would not be good for Jon )There's just so much at play in that chapter , I don't think we can make any kind of confident prediction as to who will take charge of Jon , physically. I'm hoping it's the wildlings ,or a combination of wildlings and NW men loyal to Jon.If his injuries are survivable ( and I'm betting they are ) , I don't think they're the type to induce a long coma .. not like Bran's .. more like the kind of thing he experienced with his leg wound. He might only be unconscious or semi-conscious for a matter of hours or a day or two ; long enough to have a dream state revelation but maybe not long enough for anyone to seize firm control of the Wall ( depending on how many truly separate factions exist ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandar Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have few theory's regarding Jon Snow....On which i believe Jon is rightful king of Westeros (because R+L=J theory)...GRRM has quoted many times that ASOIAF will finish much like Tolkien finished his book Lord of the rings(LOTR)....And in LOTR's end...Gondor after 3500 years had rightful king Aragon(king of the humans in middle earth)...In ASOIAF line of the kings was broken (as well as in LOTR) after usurper's war ended..And as GRRM stated he wants to finish his book like Tolkien....and as i said i believe Jon Snow is rightful king of Rhoynar's,Andals and the First man(all tho I don't believe he'll be king of Rhoynar's considering that he's not Elia's son but Lyanna's son and will probably be blamed for his mother's actions) .....1)There has to be some way to relieve Jon Snow from his oath to NW...If he somehow get's out from his NW oath(because of the stabbing incident) he'll still be looked as an oath breaker in the eyes of the noble houses as well as in the eyes of common people in Westeros wich means even if he's Rhaegar's son and a threw hair it won't matter he will be traitor and never be able to sit on Iron Throne...There has to be some way....some acceptable solution for his oath problem...a) Wall falls down so i guess no1 cares for NW oath if there is no NW....which is kinda bummer...considering Jon was Lord Commander when wall falls...I guess it wouldn't look to good in the eyes of people that way....not good at all....B) I think best way to relieve Jon from his oath Is via Robb Stark's will...that's only acceptable way i can think of...I think before Ned Stark went south he told all his secrets,information's all his knowledge to his FIRST born son.....He knew he might not come back...and for that reason he also may told Robb about Jon's true past...who are really his parents...A believe that the Robb Stark will look something like this...These being the words of Robert son of Edarad from the house Stark king of the north,lord of Winterfall....My grandfather Rickard Stark had four children..Brandon(dyed whitout hair,Edarad(naming his legitimate children,benjan presumable dead and daughter Lyanna)Considering my brothers are dead and i don't have a hair i need a new hair a Stark ...Bla bla bla....I exclude my sister Sansa rights to inhearid Wnterfell...bla bla bla same goes for Arya cause fear of another family taking Winterfall via his sisters...which would mean death of 12k years old family...Therefour i need a new hair....considering that Brandon,Edard and Benjan are dead whit out living hairs Winterfall would go to Lyanna Stark and her's children....I Robert Stark am naming as my hear my "brother/cousin" prince of Tower of Joy/Tower of Sorrow...Lyanna's Stark son Jon Snow of Winterfell...to rule upon my death as a STARK....KIng of the north...king of the winter.....king of the first man.....bla bla bla bla bla bla.....I do believe Robb figured some way to relese Jon from his oath....And this is probably moust sattisfaing way to publicly anaunce that Jon Snow is Rheagar's son which would be public knowledge in all seven kingdoms....which would know every noble house...and all common people in Westeros...VIA ROBB STARK'S WILL....2) All tho one of moust saddest moments for me was when ICE(Stark's sword) was melted....i believe it to be Lightbringer(when is forged again by missing rengards Oathbreaker and Widow's vail) a sword that Jon Targaryan will weald....he will be hot because he took the life of his owner(Ned Stark)...and will bright...via forging a really old valerian steel...which happend whit oathbreaker....3) Considering Jon Snow stabbing i don't believe he's dead...he will probably survive just to be BURNED ALIVE by Bouen Marsh and his man when they find out that Stannis is not dead because of the fear of retribution....while burning Ghoust will probably jump to Jon's body....he will burn so Jon can live....And when fire is out and the smoke is gone....Jon will rise....he will be light headed not knowing what's going on(part oh his soul is dead...goust is dead)...Not knowing what's happening every1 he see is kneeling he's black brothers,willdings,queens man....Sudenly he hears a soud so beautiful and so horrifying behaind him...he is afraid to look back....white tail....white snake is standing beside him...white snake whit wings....he's golden eyes looking at him...he knew he's name RHEAGAL!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If GRRM really is planning to end it all with the "return of the king", that will be a son of Winterfell crowned as King of Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandar Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Or son of Targaryan dynasty...dynasty that ended endless war in Westeros...that brought progres a way better life for common people....and peace for 300 years...I want Jon to be Targaryan king.....u just want iron throne for dany...u and that GRRM ....i will probably hate him at the end of Dream of Spring.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Ah no, once you've worked your way through the Heresy threads you'll realise we heretics have no interest in the Iron Throne, but think that this is all about the Starks and the North. :cool4:Welcome to the forum by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have few theory's regarding Jon Snow....On which i believe Jon is rightful king of Westeros (because R+L=J theory)...GRRM has quoted many times that ASOIAF will finish much like Tolkien finished his book Lord of the rings(LOTR)....And in LOTR's end...Gondor after 3500 years had rightful king Aragon(king of the humans in middle earth)...In ASOIAF line of the kings was broken (as well as in LOTR) after usurper's war ended..And as GRRM stated he wants to finish his book like Tolkien....and as i said i believe Jon Snow is rightful king of Rhoynar's,Andals and the First man(all tho I don't believe he'll be king of Rhoynar's considering that he's not Elia's son but Lyanna's son and will probably be blamed for his mother's actions) .....<snip>Has he? Where? I've never heard this before, can you provide the quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandar Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I really hate to google it but i've watched few martins interview....and read some manuscripts from those interview....where he said that he would love to see his book ending like Tolkien ended LOTR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 OTOH centering all around North discards most of the contents of the book, which I guess GRRM won't do. Rather, similar as in LoTR (or Babylon 5), the "mystical" stuff will get mostly solved and then the people will have to clean up "their" stuff - the Game of Thrones in this case.After all, the people of North saw that the Southerners are good for something sometimes - if Southerners under Stannis' banner did not come, it would be significantly more complicated. So to disregard Iron Throne and focus only on North as "the only important thing" is not necessarily good.After all, if it is all about magic disbalance, we have to deal with the dragons as well - and dragons are concerned with south...EDIT: Not to mention that South came to help North, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashman1 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Darn you, Jon! Killed when I had such high hopes for you. You were going to be Azor Ahai reborn. You were going to ride dragons and be a counterbalance to Daenary's awesomeness. And someday your heritage would be revealed and important..."Kill the boy, become the man."That was Aemon's advice. This leads me to think Aemon suspected Jon to be Azor Ahai and maybe urged Mormont to put the sword Long Claw into Jon's hands. I don't thinkAnyways, about his death. I don't believe he will stay dead as I agree that GRRM knows that when you kill a character, really kill him, you do it for the world to see and he's done this "OH! they're slain! Nvm..." thing too many times. To add to the list: Tyrions face being cleaved in half... lived. The last thing Tyrion remembers was being dragged into the deep river in the stoney clench with no escape.... lived. The book starts with a chapter literally about what happens when a Warg dies. I assumed this was foreshadowing for Brans storyline, either an exchange with Six-Skins or a "death" or rebirth into the Weirwoods. At the very least Jon is pushed into Ghost. 'In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost" he whispered.' Shows that he's reaching out to his wolf.But, there are multiple multiple other ways out I see. First, thing that comes to mind is was this a planned farce? Jon was LC of the Nights Watch. He couldn't leave and it is very out of character for him to do so. So he gave a riotous speech, had every eye on him and... died. But the blades that kill him are described as "cold" and a punch in the belly and he never felt the fourth knife. Could the blades have been fake? Made of ice? Was this all planned to have Jon dead in the eyes of the watch and free to retake Winterfell (or some other purpose). He sits in conference with Tormund for hours planning his moves prior to this, who's to say they didn't plan a fake death, too? He exchanges glances with Melisandre and admits he should have gone to Selyse first. Maybe plans were made, either for glamours or effects like ice daggers.One thing I do kind of like about his "death" (yes, death is quoted for now) is Marsh was in charge of the food stores and the salt and Marsh planned this coup in the middle of a storm. If he's reborn, it can be viewed as born in salt and storm. Especially if the blades were ice, salted to slow any bleeding. Or Marsh puts his body him in the salt cellars.Of course, there is the Red R'hllor resurection aspect. I don't like this. In SoS and aFfC they focus on Dondarion's...agony of lives? They also compare Stannis' internal fire as being consumed and used up, while Jon's is younger and brighter. And then Stonehands is a vengeful shell of what she once was. Lastly, Mance Raydor is bound to Melisandres will (theories as to whether the gem binds his will, or just creates a glamour but I assume she has some power over him). I don't want Jon to be resurrected alla Thoros. It indebts him to Melisandre and in some aspects aligns him with the others as being undead. Then again, he wanted to know more about the others which is why he kept two bodies.So, just avoiding dieing of the stab wounds and surviving naturaly, warging into the ghost, faked death, or Melisandre's resurrection. A couple possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.