Fragile Bird Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I think US driver's licenses are the same as in Canada - photo, name, address. Nothing about citizenship, why would there be. You don't need to be a citizen to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 In this case can't the cop just ask him to show his driver's license? He has to have one in order to operate the vehicle, so he has to be able to prove that he has one (i.e show it to the police when asked), and on that license doesn't it state his citizenship and whatnot?He effectively did when he asked him about his citizenship, and the driver rightfully said no thank you. He wasn't being pulled over because of erratic driving, speeding or any other infraction so there wasn't a reason to have to prove he was a licensed driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 How in the name of all things holy do the police not have the right to check your driver's license any time they pull you over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupis42 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 How in the name of all things holy do the police not have the right to check your driver's license any time they pull you over?They have to have a reason for pulling you over. Usually, they can come up with something, but it sounds like these guys didn't have anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 How in the name of all things holy do the police not have the right to check your driver's license any time they pull you over?If they pull you over for speeding, sure - license, registration, proof of insurance, etc etc.From what the video showed, this was just a checkpoint - not a DUI checkpoint, not looking for a fugitive - so there was no reason for the driver of the car to have to show his license or any other ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If a police officer legally stops you somehow (you commit a traffic stop infraction, DUI checkpoint, etc), and you are the driver of a vehicle, yes they can demand your driver's license. Not the passengers, but they are allowed to determine if you are a legal and safe driver before letting you go.No idea what is going on in the video regarding whether it was a legal stop or not, so can't really comment much. It was daytime, and the cop asked about citizenship, so I don't think it was a DUI checkpoint. There are other kinds of checkpoints that can be legal though. Stop and ID laws can also vary from State to State, but I don't know of any that allow you to ID without suspicion of a crime being committed.The guy was searching for a "gotcha" video and in the end didn't get much (they let him go). IF the checkpoint was legal, yes they could ask for a driver's license (not some other ID). If he didn't produce one they could have told him to pull over and turn the car off and allowed him to walk home I guess. They let him go on his way so they either thought they had a legal problem with the stop itself or just decided it wasn't worth the time to detain the guy and moved on to the next car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Yes, because that sort of shit used to happen here. If you don't believe me, just check out this, this, and this.Don't make the mistake of thinking that American plutocrats are morally superior to plutocrats of other nations.1914, 1887, 1912.Note that I said, modern America. That stuff happened a century ago or more. We aren't the same country as we were back then. I completely agree massacres could (and did) happen in the US over a century ago. Don't seeing see one like in modern Africa in the OP happening in modern America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Here's some petrol (gas) for your fire, Tormund:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19569706 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Does this belong here?The prime minister makes a "proper apology" to the families of those that have died. "I am profoundly sorry," he saysFormer Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie, who wrote the headline The Truth, has offered his "profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool"David Crompton, chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, "profoundly apologises" to both the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims and Liverpool fans in generalThe panel finds that a total of 41 people out of 96 "had the potential to be saved" beyond the 1515 time determined by the original inquestThe report finds flaws in the police operation and new evidence that the police carried out checks on those who had died in order to "impugn their reputations"The report finds 164 statements were "significantly amended" and 116 "removed negative comments" about policing operation ETA: Great minds think alike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You're completely ignoring that what makes "modern America" modern America is those very regulations and laws that were developed in response to those massacres and other incidents, like the NLRA of 1935 and the Byrnes Act of 1936. The only reason those things don't happen in modern America is because we have laws protecting striking workers against strikebreaking activities.I call bullshit. Those things happend a century ago, and not today, because of many factors in our culture that have changed, not just some laws. If laws protecting striking workers were repealed tomorrow are you going to argue we will soon have police mowing down strikers with machineguns? Utter rubbish.Let's don't get into a debate on a definition of "modern America" is please. I obviously meant America today so your examples of massacres that occurred a 100 years ago still don't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 If laws protecting striking workers were repealed tomorrow are you going to argue we will soon have police mowing down strikers with machineguns? Utter rubbish.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 http://en.wikipedia....State_shootingsNearly half a century ago.These things are not happening today not just because of some laws. Police aren't chomping at the bit waiting for a law to be appealed so they can go mow down mobs of students or strikers. Police come from the very culture that finds this stuff in modern America (to clarify, today) horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I feel kind of unequipped to comment on the topic as I have never experienced any kind of police brutality or miscarriage of justice nor has any of my friends but that may be due to the fact that I live in the Scottish Countryside where our police don't have guns and very rarely are there any occasion where the police would actually have the ability to be brutal.But it seems very naive to say that a massacre like in SA could never happen in America. All it takes is one guy with a gun who really shouldn't have been trusted with a gun making a bad decision. Or even a reasonable officer mistaking the intentions of a certain striker and bang goes the dynamite. Even if its just one guy who starts firing he/she is generally followed by others. It seems to be the usual reaction that when you seen one of your comrades firing you kind of assume that you should be firing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just wanted to point out that this is exactly the type of power the corporate robber barons want to hold over the working and middle class. Enforced servitude/slavery with government stooges and hired guns to back up their power. So remember these incidents when Republicans start talking about rolling back regulations again.Just a reminder of what this argument was about. I never stated a police massacre of any sort was never ever possible in the next century in the US. What I said was the incident in Africa stated in the OP was not currently possible in modern America (meaning today).I don't believe we are going to have anything like the OP happen in the US. You had strikers being mowed down by police (security?) then the strikers being charged with the murders of the strikers. Thus, my argument that this is not going to happen in America today. Arguing that it happened a century ago is not reasonable. It's not the same country.Expanding what happened in Africa to what happened at Kent State 42 years ago is also a stretch - Not the same climate as there is today in the US. African strikers were mowed down by police then some of the strikers were charged with the murders of the dead strikers killed by police. At Kent State students were killed by National Guardsmen. Students were arrested, but not for the murder of other students shot by the Guardsmen. Some of the Guardsmen faced criminal and civil trials. This isn't the same thing as the OP incident and it happened nearly half a century ago. Even if you stretch the scenario and call Kent State the same thing as the African incident, I still don't believe another Kent State is going to happen in America. today.Look at all of the Occupy Wall Street riots. While there were injuries, I think even at least one death, during pollice responses, you didn't have police opening fire with firearms at the crowds. This has happened over and over in cities across the US with OWS and still no massacre. Changing a few laws is not going to change this, cause a massacre, then have the crowd charged with the crimes of the police. An entire culture needs to be changed before this will happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'd have to argue that Occupy Wall Street was not the same as the mine strike in SA. There was no identifiable target at any of the Occupy Wall Street protests across the USA, just a general "THEM" that was being protested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'd have to argue that Occupy Wall Street was not the same as the mine strike in SA. There was no identifiable target at any of the Occupy Wall Street protests across the USA, just a general "THEM" that was being protested.I'm not at all saying they are comparable. I was commenting that we have had a large amount of public protests in the last year thoughout the US, in many different cities, with the old "us" vs. "them" of the 70's thrown in. Even so, no massacres. The modern US and it's various police agencies aren't comparable to what is found in a third world country. The culture where a police/military/militia massacre could happen is no longer evident in the US even though it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Bit I heard on the radio today:Guy gets pulled over for a traffic violation and handed a ticket for $137.Guy goes down to courthouse a couple days later and presents clerks with a donut box containing 137 one dollar bills folded into origami (sp?) pigs.Clerks made gy unfold origami pigs - but not before cop cees them and goes "Cool!"Disk Jockey's reaction "Awesome!"Perhaps Tormund will find this inspirational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 And there are reasons for that. If you remove those reasons, we'll return to that culture. Not overnight, but it will happen. but then it won't be mordern America but Future America :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The latest may be the worst of these incidents I've ever heard.The "common purpose" doctrine was used by the apartheid state to suppress black dissidents BTW. So not only do the police get off scot-free for a massacre of 34 people, they get to use Jim Crow laws to charge their surviving friends with their own crime. An absolute travesty.Here you can see the police chief stating their intention to bust up the strike by any means necessary, and the police then opening fire into the crowd.I just wanted to point out that by September 3rd, prosecutors had provisionally withdrawn all the murder charges, saying they would await the outcome of further investigations into the shootings, but did not rule out bringing back the charges again. They also said they had not ruled out bringing charges against the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 So my former sheriff is back in the news. Deborah Braillard, 46, died a painful and unnecessary death when she was deprived of insulin and denied medical care during just three days in custody at the Estrella Jail.Braillard was arrested on a minor drug charge when her car broke down on New Year’s Day back in 2005.Good ol' Sheriff Joe is on the record as saying that being deprived of insulin until you die in agony is "part of the jail experience". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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