Confessions... Say what! v4

[lilenadheas]

I am forgiving because there are so many facts that prove to be important at least to an argument that are scattered all over 5 books and each given between one sentence and a paragraph. It isnt easy to keep track of that stuff, which is why there is market for the compendium.

Fair enough, I don't mind people not knowing everything. I'm talking about people who don't allow textual evidence interfere with their interpretation of a character.

I dont read long posts. I just dont care enough!

HA! it has to have a damn good opening line for me to consider investing my time in a wall of text post.

[grindylow]

Another confession: i get laughably befuddled when faced with a post using an unusual font. I will skip over these posts, regardless of how well put and logical the content may be. I really have no idea why such an insignificant thing leaves me out of sorts, but there you go.

I usually feel exactly the same! But for some reason your font made this post easier to read for me.

[rmholt]

Fair enough, I don't mind people not knowing everything. I'm talking about people who don't allow textual evidence interfere with their interpretation of a character.

HA! it has to have a damn good opening line for me to consider investing my time in a wall of text post.

Yeah when it wanders into fanfic, I decide to wait for the paperback.

[Tony Soprano]

HA! it has to have a damn good opening line for me to consider investing my time in a wall of text post.

Same here. Another thing that I take into account is the poster. So, if it's posted by someone...more " prominent " I'm more likely to read a long post.

[lilenadheas]

I usually feel exactly the same! But for some reason your font made this post easier to read for me.

Oh the layers... Our posts are ironic on so many levels right now. Fantastic

:cheers:

[lilenadheas]

Same here. Another thing that I take into account is the poster. So, if it's posted by someone...more " prominent " I'm more likely to read a long post.

Ha, guilty :blushing: . QCI comes to mind, because she writes novels and they are usually very funny.

[rmholt]

Same here. Another thing that I take into account is the poster. So, if it's posted by someone...more " prominent " I'm more likely to read a long post.

It may also be that my powers of concentration arent what they should be.

[Tony Soprano]

Ha, guilty :blushing: . QCI comes to mind, because she writes novels and they are usually very funny.

Yeah, I love reading her posts. And also Apple Martini's analyses.

I also hate shipping, but WK's threads are very fun to read.

[Tony Soprano]

It may also be that my powers of concentration arent what they should be.

I can easily set my mind on doing something, but It's the duration of my focus that's the problem. I get distracted very easily...

So, I don't start a post which I think is going to bore me, or isn't worth reading. And I think pretty much every long post that's not from the members I stated above is boring.

[Failed to De-anon]

1. I know they are fictional characters sure but if Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away because of love, I will have lost all respect for them. Lyanna at her age (and betrothed) would have been considered an adult and if she hated the idea of Robert whoring around eloping with a married man with children doesn't make any sense. As for Rhaegar, he had a responsibility to his wife and young children (who he left with his crazy father) and the realm first and should have taken care of Aerys' special brand of crazy before going off to a love-nest.

2. I get it Arya is an action girl; that doesn't mean that she has to be my favorite character. Nor does it mean that I have to like her more than girls who are more feminine or traditional.

3. I felt sorry for Viserys: his father was crazy, his mother was abused by his crazy father, his brother did something that eventually lead to a war and the decimation of most of his family, he was orphaned and exiled from his home at a young age, no one gets over being called "the Beggar King" and having to sell off the last items belonging to their dead mothers or having to give away his sister (who, if the circumstances were Targaryen-royal-family-normal, would have been his wife), and then the pot of gold.

4. I kind of see where Walder Frey was coming from, not the whole mass murder thing but being pissed off: he's already seen as "Late Lord Frey" I am sure he didn't want that to be his legacy, Robb wasn't his liege lord but he still gave to Robb's war and it ended with his heir Stevron, along with other sons, relatives, and men, dying, and then one of his daughters/female relatives who was promised to Robb publically was put aside for the daughter of a bannerman of the enemy.

5. Stannis did the right thing by eliminating Renly. Are we expected to believe that Renly didn't know his brother enough to where he knew that Stannis wouldn't give up his claim? Or that Renly wouldn't have been willing to eliminate rival claimants? Stannis was the one that helped Master Cressen raise Renly while ruling Storm's End in Robert's place, held Storms End (and kept Renly alive) during the siege for as long as he could, and did everything Robert told him to do, and even though he complained about being passed over he eventually lived with it. Where was Renly's brotherly feelings then? Why should Stannis roll over; he's the older brother.

6. I am not holding Sansa as the most responsible party for the Lady affair or Ned's execution. She was, what, 11-12 in the first book? About Lady: Robert made the call, and what was Sansa expected to do? She was the ones that had to live with Crown Prince Joffrey and Queen Cersei for the rest of her life, was she supposed to alienate them? As to Ned's execution: that's more on Joffrey, Littlefinger, Cersei & Ned than it is on her. She told her future mother in law that for some unknown reason her father was planning on breaking the betrothal and will be leaving soon for reasons he's not telling her. Why blame her not the person who committed the treason her father was looking in to, the person who came up with the idea, or the person who ordered it?

[RenlyIsNotRight]

4. I kind of see where Walder Frey was coming from, not the whole mass murder thing but being pissed off: he's already seen as "Late Lord Frey" I am sure he didn't want that to be his legacy, Robb wasn't his liege lord but he still gave to Robb's war and it ended with his heir Stevron, along with other sons, relatives, and men, dying, and then one of his daughters/female relatives who was promised to Robb publically was put aside for the daughter of a bannerman of the enemy.

And then orchestrating a wedding massacre that violates guest right is supposed to help his public image?

I agree with you big time on number 5 though.

[Peko]

I really like the inclusion of magic and magical beings, I don't get why so many people complain about it. It's called A Song of Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones.

The birth of the dragons at the end of Game was the perfect addition for an already amazing story.

Don't get me wrong, I love the magic system that exists in ASoIaF, and how it's centered around there always being a price, particularly blood sacrifice. This includes the CotF, the Weirwoods, the greenseers, the red priests, the shadowbinders, the birthing of Dany's dragons, wights, etc. Species such as mammoths and giants are great as well. White Walkers are good too, because they have their place in the world just like everyone else and they're not invincible; they have weaknesses including dragonglass, dragonsteel, fire, iron, and probably more. It's the dragons themselves that give me pause, as they seem to be an essentially unchecked source of power.

As I've already said in this thread a couple pages prior, it's likely that the dragons do indeed have a weakness that we don't know of yet (Brandon Snow plotting to assassinate them with weirwood arrows seems to suggest this), so my critiques really are just centered around what we do definitively know about them, that they were singlehandedly able to lay armies and castles to waste in Aegon's Conquest, etc.

[Tony Soprano]

5. Stannis did the right thing by eliminating Renly. Are we expected to believe that Renly didn't know his brother enough to where he knew that Stannis wouldn't give up his claim? Or that Renly wouldn't have been willing to eliminate rival claimants? Stannis was the one that helped Master Cressen raise Renly while ruling Storm's End in Robert's place, held Storms End (and kept Renly alive) during the siege for as long as he could, and did everything Robert told him to do, and even though he complained about being passed over he eventually lived with it. Where was Renly's brotherly feelings then? Why should Stannis roll over; he's the older brother.

6. I am not holding Sansa as the most responsible party for the Lady affair or Ned's execution. She was, what, 11-12 in the first book? About Lady: Robert made the call, and what was Sansa expected to do? She was the ones that had to live with Crown Prince Joffrey and Queen Cersei for the rest of her life, was she supposed to alienate them? As to Ned's execution: that's more on Joffrey, Littlefinger, Cersei & Ned than it is on her. She told her future mother in law that for some unknown reason her father was planning on breaking the betrothal and will be leaving soon for reasons he's not telling her. Why blame her not the person who committed the treason her father was looking in to, the person who came up with the idea, or the person who ordered it?

I agree with every single word of that.

I've defended Stannis on the whole Renly situation numerous times, and I used pretty much the same wording you did. Renly was a likable character, but I realize it had to be done.

[Failed to De-anon]

And then orchestrating a wedding massacre that violates guest right is supposed to help his public image?

I agree with you big time on number 5 though.

I didn't say it was logical, or that was what he was trying to do, but, hey, if you're going to be disregarded, held in disdain, and hated, might as well earn it! And it wasn't as though he was alone in coming up with the plot, even if he was ultimately the responsible party. That's neither here nor there though.

I'm not a father, and certainly Walder Frey wasn't a good father or a good man in general, but if I helped out someone and that resulted in the death of my children and other relatives, and then he dismissed my daughter in a public way that man wouldn't be considered my guest. So, like I said, I don't agree with the mass murder plot, but, if Walder Frey hadn't been a horrid human being to begin with I could see why he did what he did. Although it would probably help my argument better if Walder Frey had been a better man.

[Foxhound]

I enjoy having prophecies in a story, and like just about all of them in the series (except for Maggy the Frog's, especially because it was retroactive). I like trying to interpret them and seeing how they play out.

I think Feast and Dance were in need of some very aggressive editing, and I can see the remaining books suffering the same problem. It seems to be the bane of a lot of successful writers.

[Joaquin H'ghar]

I never liked Dany's chapters after the GOT. And I really dislike the girl they cast as her character in the shows, I think they could have chosen someone different and her character would seem more real.

I really liked Robb... until he married Jeyne. The fool!

[Florina Laufeyson]

I find the whole way of life of the Iron islanders to be pretty atrocious. They're no better than the Dothraki, and about 10x more cowardly. They literally wait until anyone who could oppose them is gone and sneak and attack unprotected people and castles.

Even some of the Iron Islanders who aren't as bad as others like Asha or Tris Botley I still can't stand.

The only Ironborn I don't despise is Euron Greyjoy, because at least he's forthright about being a bastard and isn't painted in a sympathetic light

Same.

Me too.

Me three.

I really like the inclusion of magic and magical beings, I don't get why so many people complain about it. It's called A Song of Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones.

The birth of the dragons at the end of Game was the perfect addition for an already amazing story.

I agree. I like the magic! I like the fantasy elements a lot really.

I never liked Dany's chapters after the GOT. And I really dislike the girl they cast as her character in the shows, I think they could have chosen someone different and her character would seem more real.

I really liked Robb... until he married Jeyne. The fool!

I like Dany but i agree about her actress. Bleagh. Sure she looks like dany but her acting sucks.

3. I felt sorry for Viserys: his father was crazy, his mother was abused by his crazy father, his brother did something that eventually lead to a war and the decimation of most of his family, he was orphaned and exiled from his home at a young age, no one gets over being called "the Beggar King" and having to sell off the last items belonging to their dead mothers or having to give away his sister (who, if the circumstances were Targaryen-royal-family-normal, would have been his wife), and then the pot of gold.

Yeah. Viserys is a tragic case for me too. Sure, he went batshit and some of the stuff he did to Dany was pretty awful but i really did feel sorry for him.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I get it Sansa a a girly-girl; that doesn't mean that she has to be my favorite character. Nor does it mean that I have to like her more than girls who are more proactive and independent. In fact, it doesn't mean that I have to like her at all, especially not when she has an army of apologists to find excuses for all her behavior. IRL, would you like someone who was never held responsible for anything? On the contrary, you'd probably want to give him/her a good kick in the ass right after you gave slapped his/ her enablers about the head with a wet fish.

Sansa needs a good activating kick in the behind, and I really, really want Arya to do it.

I also want that sniveling coward Roslin Frey, "Miss Too-Little, Too-Late" to die.

Alas, even GRRM would never go so far.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Ha, guilty :blushing: . QCI comes to mind, because she writes novels and they are usually very funny.

Har yes. Even though i vehemently disagree with that member, i find myself nearly always reading her walls of text. lawl!

I get it Sansa a a girly-girl; that doesn't mean that she has to be my favorite character. Nor does it mean that I have to like her more than girls who are more proactive and independent. In fact, it doesn't mean that I have to like her at all, especially not when she has an army of apologists to find excuses for all her behavior. IRL, would you like someone who was never held responsible for anything? On the contrary, you'd probably want to give him/her a good kick in the ass right after you gave slapped his/ her enablers about the head with a wet fish.

Sansa needs a good activating kick in the behind, and I really, really want Arya to do it.

I agree. I do like Sansa though. But just because of *reasons* doesnt mean someone has to like Sansa. Its the same with Arya. People dont have to like her either. I do but yeah thats just me.

[rmholt]

Ha, guilty :blushing: . QCI comes to mind, because she writes novels and they are usually very funny.

I'll have to be on the alert for QCI. Maybe I read those long posts already. When someone stacks one speculation on top of another, I am pretty much out of there.