Rereading Tyrion

[Julian Rayne]

With the food I actually had a different idea. I was thinking that food and eating, having meals together is all about conviviality, friendship and companionship. And that seems in contrast to the idea of Tyrion as an outsider, or feeling himself to be isolated from his fellow men (and I think we are largely talking about men with Tyrion aren't we?).

I suppose it also suggests an appetite, and enjoyment of, er, physical pleasures. So far restricted to food, at least in deed.

I was trying to wrack my brains about other characters, I recall Ned missing meals due to the King's business and his own investigations. Perhaps this just comes back to Tyrion the man of leisure - with the time to enjoy his food? At least so far.

Good observation. It stands in contrast to Jon's later refusal to eat with his men. A lesson he failed to learn from Ned.

[Blisscraft]

Well done, Lummel.

Tyrion's POV on the road with Catelyn is extremely abrupt when you follow only the Tryrion chapters. I wanted to add to the idea of Tyrion bearing messages and one of those incidents occurs in Bran's POV when Tyrion stops at Winterfell on his way home from the Wall.

Bran meets Tyrion in the Hall at Winterfell. Robb is being "Robb the Lord" and Bran feels the "anger" in the Hall. Bran sees Tryion in the center of the room with his servants and four men of the NW. Tyrion insults Robb by calling him "boy." The tension is thick. Robb even goes so far as to "show" his sword to Tyrion. A grievous insult. Bran enters and Tyrion says, "So it is true, the boy lives. I could scarce believe it. You Starks are hard to kill."

Robb replies, "You Lannisters had best remember that." Robb orders Bran to be brought to the high seat of the Starks. "You said you had business with Bran well here he is Lannister."

This exchange is completely different from Tyrion's early exchanges with Jon. Robb is openly hostile. Any attempts at humor seem to be veiled threats. Bran senses the hostility, but doesn't seem to understand it fully.

The next passage: "Bran was uncomfortably aware of Tyrion Lannister's eyes. One was black and one was green, and both were looking at him, studying him, weighing him."

Once again, another character takes note of Tyrion's heterochromia iridis. The "mismatched eyes;" one black and one green. The significance of Tyrion's eyes at this point seems nothing more than an additional "defect." However, as the journey goes on, Tyrion's eyes reveal a "mismatch" or conflict within his character.

Tyrion, "as good as his word," delivers Jon's message to Bran, not in words, but in the form of a gift: plans to make a special saddle

so that Bran may ride a horse again. Tyrion refers to the special saddle as an aid to "any cripple." Bran denies, "I am not a cripple." Tyrion retorts (as he did previously with Jon) "Then I am not a dwarf. . . My father will rejoice to hear it." Once again, Tyrion simultaneously self depricates and insults his father. A mismatch?

Bran asks if he will really be able to ride again and Tyrion replies, "You will. . . . And I swear to you boy, on horseback you will be as tall as any of them."

Robb reacts to the "gift" with suspicion and questions Tyrion's motives. However, Tyrion, once again true to his word tells Robb, in one of the most quoted and possibly significant passages in the books:

"Your brother Jon asked it of me. And I have tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things."

Tyrion's message from Jon is not only delivered, but also is embellished by Tyrion's own experience as a dwarf. Also, there is a message to the reader regarding one of the overall themes in GRRM's world: a tender spot for cripples and bastards and broken things.

[Blisscraft]

Back on later to add a bit more about Tyrion as messenger/message in Catelyn's POV at the inn at the crossroads before Tyrion IV. Catelyn seizes Tyrion and thereby sends a message to her father's bannermen, to the Lannisters and to the realm. Cat accomplishes this by having her father's bannermen acknowlege their loyalty to Riverrun. Then, she accuses Tyrion of conspiracy to murder Bran while he was a guest at Winterfell. Finally, Cat takes physical custody of Tyrion. In one fell swoop, the message she sends to all of Westeros is: first, there is a conspiracy to murder Bran; second, it happened in her own home, a horrible violation of the guest right; and finally, that Tyrion is one of other coconspirators.

[Lyanna Stark]

Yes, I keep notes because my memory is like a sieve. :P And this time I didn't even make any, so failboat for me, I'm afraid!

We have other proofs of how he's deeply linked to Casterly Rock: his battle cry; when he swears an oath, he always says "on my honour as a Lannister" (he will later use the same expression with Sansa).

"Whatever you may believe of me, Lady Stark, I promise you this—I never bet against my family.”

This is a good point - perhaps yet another facet of what Lummel normally refers to as Tyrion's moral compass pointing straight at Casterly Rock. Regardless of what Tyrion thinks and feels about his immediate family, he strongly identifies with being a Lannister.

[Fire Eater]

"Whatever you may believe of me, Lady Stark, I promise you this—I never bet against my family.”

This also foreshadows Tyrion switching sides later on, and working against his family when he goes to join Dany.

[Winterfellian]

Following a little on Tyrion's meeting with Bran, it is worth mentioning that his interaction with Bran is similar with the one with Jon at the King's Road. Tyrion forced Bran to face the truth about him being a crippled in a similar way in which he made Jon confront what he was to expect at the Wall. Tyrion brought for such admittances by delivering the truth about their situations in a very crude manner with no sugar coat. Just honest and brutal truth.Also, in both situations he ended up threatened by wolves. In Jon's case, the tension was diffused with a joke and in Bran's with a gift. I think this is the first time we see Tyrion showing a true selfless empathy towards others. This gift comes not only from his soft spot for cripples, bastards and broken things but also because like he told Jon-He (Tyrion) knows what is like to love a brother. Tyrion suspects Jaime of Bran's accident yet he loves him like Jon might love Bran and so he's caught somewhere in the middle.

About the kidnapping, one of the things that struck me the most was his saving of Catelyn even after all the crap she put him through. Is interesting that while Cat was being attacked he reasoned something like it was well deserved yet still move to save her.

All the way from the inn he's thinking on how to get revenge on those who moved against him and when the person responsible for this was facing sure death he went out of his way to save her. Not only this, he acted in a somewhat similar fashion with the singer. Yes, he did break his fingers at the first chance he got but he did advice him to play dead so he will be left alone.

I rather like how Tyrion ended this chapter in comparison with how he started it. At the beggining he's tied and doubting his own cunning at being outsmarted by Catelyn. He ended it riding as any of the others, with a possible ally and the upperhand over Catelyn. So far, while we gathered that Tyrion was smart and witty we get the first taste of how cunning he can really be.

[Lummel]

Just wanted to pick up on this idea of Tyrion the messenger.

He's specifically charged by Mormont and Jon to carry a message, also in the case of Jon to be a message. In a fantasy version of "the medium is the message" Tyrion's ability to to overcome his disability on horseback through the use of a special saddle is meant to offer hope to Bran.

Equally Catelyn's seizure of Tyrion is a message that Tywin understands very well. It also crucially gives us the message that Catelyn's reading of the balance of power in the kingdom is that she does not believe that she will receive justice if she takes Tyrion to King's Landing.

Tyrion as messengers go is a bit of a Cassandra. He tells the truth or knows the truth, but isn't believed about his innocence in the assassination attempt on Bran and won't be taken seriously about the Night's watch.

In terms of the medium being the message the choice of Tyrion is a desperate one on the part of Mormont. This unattached man with no known influence at court is the only possible eye-witness link that Mormont has to the world of the King and the great nobles.

[Elba the Intoner]

Hi all, I have been reading through these pages and really enjoying them. There have been some great insights which are always fascinating to discover upon a closer reading as well as things that you can only pick up on once you have read through the story and know generally what will happen so far. For ex.,

Well done, Lummel.

Tyrion's POV on the road with Catelyn is extremely abrupt when you follow only the Tryrion chapters. I wanted to add to the idea of Tyrion bearing messages and one of those incidents occurs in Bran's POV when Tyrion stops at Winterfell on his way home from the Wall.

Bran meets Tyrion in the Hall at Winterfell. Robb is being "Robb the Lord" and Bran feels the "anger" in the Hall. Bran sees Tryion in the center of the room with his servants and four men of the NW. Tyrion insults Robb by calling him "boy." The tension is thick. Robb even goes so far as to "show" his sword to Tyrion. A grievous insult. Bran enters and Tyrion says, "So it is true, the boy lives. I could scarce believe it. You Starks are hard to kill."

Robb replies, "You Lannisters had best remember that."

Heh, nice foreshadowing of Cat becoming Lady Stoneheart here.

The next passage: "Bran was uncomfortably aware of Tyrion Lannister's eyes. One was black and one was green, and both were looking at him, studying him, weighing him."

Once again, another character takes note of Tyrion's heterochromia iridis. The "mismatched eyes;" one black and one green. The significance of Tyrion's eyes at this point seems nothing more than an additional "defect." However, as the journey goes on, Tyrion's eyes reveal a "mismatch" or conflict within his character.

This is such a great observation! And I really like the comments that have been made about Tyrion the sympathetic vs Tyrion the Lannister. The first time I read the books, I only saw Tyrion the sympathetic here, as he's even set up as being a friend of the Starks and Jon in particular, and, except for Jaime, having no love for the rest of his Lannister family, for ex. Cersei looking at him with faint distaste,and Tywin's treatment of him because he is a dwarf. But deep down, on a closer read you can really see that his Lannister name forms the basis for who he is as a person and it really runs strong within him. His true colors, the black and the green, really come through.

Bran asks if he will really be able to ride again and Tyrion replies, "You will. . . . And I swear to you boy, on horseback you will be as tall as any of them."

Tyrion places a high value on being tall and I am realizing that this has been set up repeatedly from early on. When Jon first sees him he's sitting above the doorway in Winterfell looking down on the yard, he has dreamed of flying on a dragon high above everyone else, and maybe this is why he had a strange shift in direction that took him to going up to see the top of the wall instead of going back to his chambers his last night at Castle Black. He is able to look down on the world from there. Now, in Bran's POV we see him still valuing the idea of being tall and being able to look at people on their level.

There has also been set up of Tyrion as king. In Jon's first POV when Tyrion walks back inside he casts a shadow that makes him seem as if he is as tall as a king. At Castle black he is given quarters in the King's Tower though no king has been there in a hundred years. Also, as was noted already, there has been a set up of Tyrion as giant that will be repeated often later on in the next two books. This brings me to the discussion of Lyanna Stark's comments about Aemon saying that Tyrion is a giant, which Tyrion takes as an honest genuine compliment. This is another thing that one would not notice with a first reading and has more meaning on a reread because at this point in the books, we don't know the history of the Targaryan downfall and the Lannister's role in that, so it would seem that Aemon is kind and genuinely well meaning. Now knowing what we know after reading the rest of the books, perhaps it wasn't so kindly meant after all. This brings me to a few questions about another giant reference, the one in Bran's vision just before he wakes from his coma - the giant "in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Bran has this vision at almost the same point in time as Aemon refers to Tyrion as a giant. If Aemon was not as well meaning as we at first thought, could this be foreshadowing that Tyrion is this giant armored in stone? Is this the same giant who is later referenced in the Ghost of High Heart's vision, or will the stories about giants heads on spikes in Winterfell somehow be relevant to Tyrion? I know a lot of people think this refers to Gregor/Robert Strong but I think that it's too obvious. The other choice for this vision is Littlefinger, which is what I tend to believe as well, but a case could be made from these passages that it might be Tyrion.

[Elba the Intoner]

Following a little on Tyrion's meeting with Bran, it is worth mentioning that his interaction with Bran is similar with the one with Jon at the King's Road. Tyrion forced Bran to face the truth about him being a crippled in a similar way in which he made Jon confront what he was to expect at the Wall. Tyrion brought for such admittances by delivering the truth about their situations in a very crude manner with no sugar coat. Just honest and brutal truth.Also, in both situations he ended up threatened by wolves. In Jon's case, the tension was diffused with a joke and in Bran's with a gift. I think this is the first time we see Tyrion showing a true selfless empathy towards others. This gift comes not only from his soft spot for cripples, bastards and broken things but also because like he told Jon-He (Tyrion) knows what is like to love a brother. Tyrion suspects Jaime of Bran's accident yet he loves him like Jon might love Bran and so he's caught somewhere in the middle.

About the kidnapping, one of the things that struck me the most was his saving of Catelyn even after all the crap she put him through. Is interesting that while Cat was being attacked he reasoned something like it was well deserved yet still move to save her.

All the way from the inn he's thinking on how to get revenge on those who moved against him and when the person responsible for this was facing sure death he went out of his way to save her. Not only this, he acted in a somewhat similar fashion with the singer. Yes, he did break his fingers at the first chance he got but he did advice him to play dead so he will be left alone.

I rather like how Tyrion ended this chapter in comparison with how he started it. At the beggining he's tied and doubting his own cunning at being outsmarted by Catelyn. He ended it riding as any of the others, with a possible ally and the upperhand over Catelyn. So far, while we gathered that Tyrion was smart and witty we get the first taste of how cunning he can really be.

Since you are picking up on parallels in the first paragraph between Tyrion's interactions with Jon and Bran and their wolves, I think your comment in the second paragraph that I highlighted also has a parallel. Though it comes in a later book and I know we are not supposed to go too far ahead, this is similar to when Jaime end's up giving the oar to Brienne to help her out of the river when just before that he's thinking he should just hit her over the head with the oar and escape from her.

[Lummel]

Yeah, I thought that Tyrion's thoughts about Catelyn in the chapter compared with those towards the three stooges, Ser Willas Wode and Marillion were very telling.

With Catelyn 'it's all in the game' a great noble has the right to seize and carry off an equal for political/family reasons.

With the others it's a case of 'how dare they treat a Lannister in this manner'! Even though a prisoner he expects to be treated with appropriate respect by the lowlifes.

You can't really miss the importance of social status, I don't think this is just Tyrion, who is very aware as has been mentioned above that if he wasn't a Lannister he would have been just some dwarf performing for a groat if he was lucky, this is a very unequal society.

[Tagganaro]

Yeah, I thought that Tyrion's thoughts about Catelyn in the chapter compared with those towards the three stooges, Ser Willas Wode and Marillion were very telling.

With Catelyn 'it's all in the game' a great noble has the right to seize and carry off an equal for political/family reasons.

With the others it's a case of 'how dare they treat a Lannister in this manner'! Even though a prisoner he expects to be treated with appropriate respect by the lowlifes.

You can't really miss the importance of social status, I don't think this is just Tyrion, who is very aware as has been mentioned above that if he wasn't a Lannister he would have been just some dwarf performing for a groat if he was lucky, this is a very unequal society.

This, and I'm sure it's a point that has been hammered home by Dear Old Daddy Tywin as well. Between the Tysha incident and I'm sure Tyrion has heard stories about Tytos's mistress, Tyrion is well aware of how important class is in everything. Doesn't Tyrion say if he wasn't Lannister he'd be drowned in a well or something when he was younger as well?

[pig]

Doesn't Tyrion say if he wasn't Lannister he'd be drowned in a well or something when he was younger as well?

"Left out to die or sold to some slaver's grotesquerie".

To the point of class and social status, it's interesting that the Dothraki 'savages' leave deformed children to be eaten by the dogs that follow the khalasar. No different than what a Westerosi peasant would be expected to do.

[Blisscraft]

Elba - like the giant reference to Bran's dream and other giant references as well. At his point in the story, as readers, we don't know that giants are real north of the Wall.

InTyrion IV, it's amazing how Catelyn uses Tyrion as the message to Tywin and Tyrion tries to use himself as a different message to the folks at the inn. To Tyrion, his message to the inn folk is that his release from his captor, Lady Stark, could bring a large reward from his very rich daddy. To Cat, she broadcasts Tyrion's guilt and where she's taking him: WInterfell to await the King's justice. What she has really performed is an act of extraordinary justice, above the law, and relayed misinformation of where the captive will await justice; not at Winterfell as she tells the inn folk, but in the Vale. Consequently, as readers, we are as surprised as Tyrion when the hood comes off to find we're on the eastern road.

More later about Tyrion's message to Cat regarding Littlefinger.

[Natalie_S]

Yeah, I thought that Tyrion's thoughts about Catelyn in the chapter compared with those towards the three stooges, Ser Willas Wode and Marillion were very telling.

With Catelyn 'it's all in the game' a great noble has the right to seize and carry off an equal for political/family reasons.

With the others it's a case of 'how dare they treat a Lannister in this manner'! Even though a prisoner he expects to be treated with appropriate respect by the lowlifes.

You can't really miss the importance of social status, I don't think this is just Tyrion, who is very aware as has been mentioned above that if he wasn't a Lannister he would have been just some dwarf performing for a groat if he was lucky, this is a very unequal society.

I think there's more than that.

Catelyn arrested Tyrion but never treated him any differently than how she later treated Jaime, or any adversary/enemy. She treats him as an equal, and he responds in the same way.

There's a kind of mutual respect there: Catelyn is seen as cunning, calculating and rational, but never takes pleasure is seeing Tyrion's discomfort or pain.

The other guys repeatedly call him "dwarf" (in a disrespectful way), and Marillion even makes a song in which "imp" rhymes with "limp" (and it's not difficult to guess the tone and the content of it).

You can see that they probably enjoy the power they have over a noble, a Lannister, no less.

They are cruel to him in a way that Catelyn is not.

Tyrion often accepts and forgive action against him if they fit in a bigger picture, but plans revenge for petty acts of cruelty.

And he can't stand being mocked about his body: even if he said to Jon to armour himself in insults, he goes very mad at whoever calls him Imp in his face (other examples I can remember are Janos Slynt and Joffrey).

[Winterfellian]

This, and I'm sure it's a point that has been hammered home by Dear Old Daddy Tywin as well. Between the Tysha incident and I'm sure Tyrion has heard stories about Tytos's mistress, Tyrion is well aware of how important class is in everything. Doesn't Tyrion say if he wasn't Lannister he'd be drowned in a well or something when he was younger as well?

To pick up this train of thought, I think what you and Lummel wrote explained very well Tyrion's last words to Catelyn in this chapter: "I never bet against my own family".

The reason I find this last phrase interesting is not only because of what Tyrion owns to the Lannister name but also because in a way Catelyn with her kidnapping stunt is actually betting against the Lannisters. Tyrion lost his bet in KG favoring the Lannisters and Cat is on the way of losing hers by betting against them.

Is interesting that Tyrion isn't actually afraid of what may happen to him. He might be afraid of the clansmen or the shadow cats but not of what awaits him at the Vale. This unconcern comes not from the conviction of his innocence (and he is innocent!) but rather of the conviction of his family. He has enough trust in the Lannister name and in his father's reaction where the honor of his family is concerned to remain relatively calm. Tyrion is once against betting in favor of the Lannister name in his whole attitude towards Catelyn and the others both when he was first kidnapped at the inn and during the way to the Vale.

[Blisscraft]

One of the reason's Cat treats Tyrion with more respect than the others is that she knows that abducting Tyrion is probably a mistake. In her POV right after Tyrion recognizes her at the inn:

"If only the man had lingered at the Wall, she thought, if only. . . ."

Then after she is recognized by the innkeep:

"She could hear the muttering, feel the eyes upon her. Catelyn glanced around the room, at the faces of the knights and the sworn swords, and took a deep breath to slow the fraantic beating of her heart. Did she dare take the risk? There was no time to think it through, only the moment and the sound of her own voice ringing in her ears."

Once she goes forward, she cannot look back. ;) She knows she doen't have the proof, and yet, because of her real uncertainty as to his involvement, she can't bring herself to completely despise or mistreat Tyrion.

[Ragnorak]

I think this is the chapter Tyrion becomes a Lannister as far as the reader's POV is concerned. We are introduced to a Tyrion who is suspect of his siblings and loathes his sister, nephew and father. He befriends Jon and seems to legitimately care about Bran after his fall. We go from a highly Stark aligned character from a reader's perspective to:

As he stood in the predawn chill watching Chiggen butcher his horse, Tyrion Lannister chalked up one more debt owed the Starks.

“Damn her,” he muttered as he struggled up the road to rejoin his captors, remembering, “damn her and all the Starks.”

Even in this case though, we as readers know he is being falsely accused this new anti-Stark perspective doesn't immediately provoke a negative reaction for being on the opposing side of our protagonist family.

Tyrion is also still ever conscious of his plight as a dwarf and aware of his fortune for being born a Lannister.

The Dothraki ate horse, in truth; they also left deformed children out for the feral dogs who ran behind their khalasars. Dothraki customs had scant appeal for him.

On the food front as Lummel observed Tyrion laments his missed meal. The same meal Ned wished for and missed though I'm not sure what to make of that.

I was about to settle down to a warm fire and a roast fowl, and that wretched singer had to open his mouth

He was still ahorse, dreaming of a long hot soak, a roast fowl, and a featherbed, when the king’s steward told him that Grand Maester Pycelle had convened an urgent meeting of the small council.

They are fleeing at such a risky pace from this shadowy figure of Tywin Lannister who we have still never seen. We have Tyrion's intense hate of this man from the beginning, reinforced by the Nights Watch members who owe their service to Tywin's splendid choice.

“By now our pursuit is likely racing across the Neck, chasing your lie up the kingsroad… assuming there is a pursuit, which is by no means certain. Oh, no doubt the word has reached my father… but my father does not love me overmuch, and I am not at all sure that he will bother to bestir himself.” It was only half a lie; Lord Tywin Lannister cared not a fig for his deformed son, but he tolerated no slights on the honor of his House.

This passage right here against the backdrop of his Dothraki reflections, sums up Tyrion's entire Casterly Rock moral compass. I suspect he is intimately aware of not being left beside a road to die because somehow Tywin reminds of it constantly. This is the heart of his internal conflict at being a Lannister. This same hatred his father has directed at Tyrion his whole life is born of the same thing that saved Tyrion from the fate of other dwarves.

I would also like to note just how close Littlefinger came to dying in this battle.

“When my brother Jaime was unhorsed by the Knight of Flowers, that was his story, no?”

“It was,” she admitted. A line creased her brow.

“Riders!”

The mountain clans showed up just as Tyrion was about to address this primary flaw in LF's lie and the crease in Cat's brow seems to indicate he was about to have some success. The primarary casualty of this fight was the semi-amicable exchange between Tyrion and Cat. Both are hardened afterwards. Cat's inability to bury the dead is probably placed emotionally at Tyrion's feet. The battle and being armed emboldens Tyrion and his attitude. In the above exchange he is asking Cat questions and eliciting a reasoned analysis of LF's story from her. The last line in the chapter

Lady Stark, I promise you this—I never bet against my family.”

is more of a challenge and not likely to get any response other than Cat's default reaction to Tyrion's family.

[Blisscraft]

I agree with your point about Stark/Lannister alignment, Ragnorak. This chapter is the first time we actually see Tyrion draw a line in the sand with Lannisters on the one side and Starks on the other. We can accept his bitterness towards the Starks, knowing that Tyrion is falsely accused and Cat's abduction of him is without any authority. However, up to this point, the Starks are presented as the family "more sinned against than sinning." As readers, we're rooting for them and not those "arrogant, nasty" Lannisters.

[Ragnorak]

One of the reason's Cat treats Tyrion with more respect than the others is that she knows that abducting Tyrion is probably a mistake. In her POV right after Tyrion recognizes her at the inn:

I agree just that I think gamble is probably a better word than mistake. Cat's Tyrion abduction is a wealth of "what if" material. It could have gone either way and I think Cat knows this from the start.

ETA: Love the Three Stooges observation Lummel!

[David Selig]

On one of my first rereads of the series it really struck me the petty cruelty Tyrion showed towards Maryllion here by breaking his fingers. Not only he did it, but he really enjoyed doing it too. It made me rethink how I saw him. Now I don't think he changed all that much on his way to becoming a murderer at the end of ASOS.

His plans for vengeance against Cat's escort, who were basically doing whatever they were supposed to as retainers of Tully bannermen, are a point against him too. Blame Cat, not those guys. And speaking of blame, he should blame Jaime and Cerse too, because he certainly suspected their actions got him into this. Instead Tyrion is focused on getting his revenge against the wrong persons, and of course not for a second ever considers that it was his own family who started this whole mess.

His extreme annoyance at the beginning of the chapter that someone (not just someone, a woman, which seems to make him even angrier) had outsmarted him as if it's something extremely difficult, is quite annoying too.