Comic Books, part 3

[red snow]

Formspring of Avengers' editor Tom Breevort:

http://www.formsprin...536177969420926

Of course, it's non-sense considering X-men editor Nick Lowe was suprised by it:

https://twitter.com/...214570300829696

There was also an AvX podcast at Marvel in which both, and Jason Aaron (who wrote the most heavy-handed anti-Cyclops ones, should be said), but I don't have a link, and reports of the Avengers panel in the NYCC convention that even there most fans felt Cyclops was right.

I'm not sure, Bendis seems to actually realize how stupid the event was- he had both Reed Richards and Damion Hellstorm criticizing (or in Hellstorm's case, trolling) the Avengers for their behavior in it. I'm thinking the twist of the arc will be the 05, or at least part of it, agreeing with Cyclops.

I guess it's no surprise Aaron is anti-cyclops with him writing wolvie and the x-men. I guess the people who have been writing Cyclops over the last few years should be happy with how people are rallying behind him - I guess this is Brubaker, Fraction and Kyle/Yost (from his x-force appearances).

It would be pretty fun if the original 5 partly agree with old Cyclops at the end of the first arc. Even better if Beast is one of them. I guess Jean may at least be thinking "I'm dead" and pissed.

[Nephrite]

I guess it's no surprise Aaron is anti-cyclops with him writing wolvie and the x-men. I guess the people who have been writing Cyclops over the last few years should be happy with how people are rallying behind him - I guess this is Brubaker, Fraction and Kyle/Yost (from his x-force appearances).

It' a shame he does such a shitty argument for Wolverine. The whole Schism was about Cyclops teaching children to fight, and Wolverine was all "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and how they should run, run, run. Then he went and built a school (a big target if there ever was one) where they were attacked on the first day and Wolverine had them fighting. Instead of, you know, running-running-running.

Cyclops didn't even have to say "I told you so." cause it was so bloody obvious.

All of Wolverine's decisions seem to grow from petty hate-on towards Cyclops over Jean. Like a goddamn child. He was basically Rogers' Wormtongue.

Even the book where he's portrayed best, Uncanny X-Force has him being a huge ass.

Wolverine: "Lets kill Kid Omega!"

Psylocke: "And Daken!"

Wolverine: "No. Not Daken."

Psylocke: "Why the fuck not?"

Wolverine: "Cause."

Psylocke: "Cause my ass. That kid might become Apocalypse. Your son already IS a massive psycho an a killer."

Wolverine: "Cause."

Psylocke: "That doesn't even make sense."

Wolverine: "Cause."

Marvel does love Wolverine. Latest retcon has him being Xavier's inspiration for the X-Men.

[Lady Octarina]

I think Wolverine was a much more interesting character before he was given leadership position. That is, when he was just the honorable man that will occasionally be not that honorable to do what no one else will and go savage once in a while. Same thing with Cyclops - or rather, the opposite: he was more likable when he was just second-in-command of the X-Men, but more interesting after the decimation. But the main difference between the two, since then, would be that Wolverine wants to be the only one to dirty his hands, whereas Cyclops orders others to do the dirty work while he's just sitting somewhere giving the orders. I now see, he's not Magneto, he's more like Nick Fury these days.

Anyway, this week's comics. I only read these two because I'm catching up on some other series and necessary classics:

AvX Consequences 3: I liked the dialogue between Kitty and Emma. And what a nice change to actually see her covered!

Scott's way of communicating with Magneto was pretty interesting, though I really didn't expect him to still be loyal to Summers. Maybe he isn't, that's just gratitude or whatever.

Anyway, I like that Jake, he might become a member of Cyclops' new team, whenever that happens. And Hope in a regular school... wow.

A-Babies vs X-Babies: so cute, I really couldn't resist it. But the whole premise made much more sense than that of AvX: the fight for Bucky Bear! And Galactus' baby bottle :wub:

Back to serious discussion, I finally decided what annoys me the most about Marvel Now: it's unlikely we'll ever see Storm and Psylocke in the same team as Magneto. It's not just that they're some of my favorite characters, but the few times we saw them interact, I just loved their dynamics.

[Winterfell is Burning]

AvX Consequences: Maria Hill, the woman who chased Captain America like a dog for not wanting to hunt down heroes and sent suicide bombers to kill civilians in Atillan (seriously, this is actually from a comic) is seriously saying she has a higher moral ground than Cyclops, and Cap. America and Wolverine are agreeing with her- and that's OK, because she was in the Avengers movie. Marvel NOW! in a nutshell.

I think that the

invisible person writing the messages is Cable

FF: Bittersweet ending to one of the greatest comic runs ever. Hickman is a genius.

Avengers: Nothing surprising, including the fact it was crap.

. But the main difference between the two, since then, would be that Wolverine wants to be the only one to dirty his hands, whereas Cyclops orders others to do the dirty work while he's just sitting somewhere giving the orders. I now see, he's not Magneto, he's more like Nick Fury these days.

Well, he already's known as One Eye...Of course, both Wolverine and Cap. are in love with Fury, whose ethics are more questionable than Cyclops, to say the least.

But the difference in behavior is that Wolverine is emotional- "Only I will get my hands dirty, and I will murder anyone that does", while Cyclops is rational and logical about this "It makes no sense for me to be in a secrets ops team because of my powers, and because my position as leader of the X-men makes it harder for me to go AWOL often, so I'll have Wolverine and some other mutants suited for the job instead".

[Lady Octarina]

I think that the

invisible person writing the messages is Cable

Oh, I didn't even consider it. Though it does make a lot more sense, thanks for that.

[GallowKnight]

Oh, I didn't even consider it. Though it does make a lot more sense, thanks for that.

Hm, I figured it was

Magik, because the first symbol looks kinda magical and from the All New X-Men previews she seems to be the one breaking Cyclops out of jail..

[Lady Octarina]

Hm, I figured it was

Magik, because the first symbol looks kinda magical and from the All New X-Men previews she seems to be the one breaking Cyclops out of jail..

I have to confess at first I thought it was

Emma, because the powder looked like diamond, and I simply couldn't think of anything else, until the words appeared

.

:rofl:

Okay, too many possibilities, I guess we'll only know when this mess is over.

[red snow]

Just read this in a Bendis interview regardling Cyclops in all new x-men

"To the world at large, the public doesn't know Cyclops killed Xavier," said Bendis. "Even though everybody saw it … everybody saw a different thing." The writer elaborated, stating the argument will continue on. "To the public, there was a very cool guy named Scott Summers [who changed the world], did it and then suddenly disappeared." Bendis said Cyclops will become a very public face of a mutant revolution."

Guess I was maybe being too hasty with Bendis and Cyclops. Seems like while the Avengers and most of the x-men hate him, he may be a bit of a poster boy for mankind. Maybe he doesn't even need to be broken out of prison and is released due to public demand. Which may be inadvertently meta given the appareant fan reaction.

[Lady Octarina]

That would be interesting, but I'd be a bit more cautious where Bendis is concerned. I mean, the man is great writing team books, but for individual characters, especially after some major change, well... I don't think I'll ever forgive him for turning the Scarlet Witch into a crying mad-woman, even if the events in which that happened will always be my favorites.

But if that will be Cyclops' new status in the public eye, I wonder how the rest of his Extinction Team will react about that. I mean, most of them, if not all, are probably angry with him for how things went, but if from a PR perspective staying around him is the best option, as if nothing had happened, well, that will be brilliant. All the conflicts! It'll be extremely unfair, though, if he ends up taking credits for the return of the mutant-gene, when that only happened exactly because things didn't go his way.

I wouldn't make that much sense, though - I mean, if people take his side after everything that happened, what will be the point of Cap's Uncanny Avengers?

[Nephrite]

AVX Consequences #3 - I guess it's Kitty's time for Asshole Duty this week. I forgot what a mess of prejudice she was.

Cyclops remains flawless. He even recommends to the new mutant that he should go to Wolverine's fuckin' school. That's called being a better man, Logan. Either that, or he knows that Sentinels attack every third Thursday and wants the guy dead.

As far as the metal scratchings thing goes, I thought it was Magik, cause that thing looked like the shittiest pentagram ever. So shitty, I'm sure Grant Morrison threw this issue across the room. And maybe cried.

FF #23 - Man, I'm going to miss this thing. Just a perfect superhero comic. 60 issues of magic. I hope Hickman enjoyed it, too. Cause there's no chance in hell they are gonna give him this much leeway on a flagship title. He's gonna have to learn what a tie-in means.

Journey Into Mystery #645 - Must be a day for great comicbooks to end. Unlike FF, this one is soul-crushing. But, so many of the great ones are.

Batman Incorporated #4 - DC worked hard to kick the steam out of this one. Cancelling it. Warping entire continuity under its feet. Throwing rocks at penguins at the Zoo. Hey, as far as we know they did it. Who knows what Geoff Johns gets off at?

Fortunately, this is a pretty good issue that brings things back into focus. Burnham art is getting better with every issue and Morrison actually succeeds in keeping the story from zapping around while I play catch-up reading insane internet annotations by crazy people with too much time on their hands and extremely anal idea that everything Morrison writes is meta-this meta-that.

Poor Damian, though. Having to go back to his shitty mom who's whole existence is defined by the men in her life. Seriously, fuck Talia.

It's a really crappy week for kid heroes. Also, it's clear Morrison doesn't read any other DC book. He must cherish his sanity more that I do.

I, Vampire #13 - On the other hand, this thing lost its steam on it's own. And then that fucking Stormwatch team of globetrotting assholes had to come. But, with this issue it's back on form. And Stormwatch is smearing its special brand of shit somewhere else. And the art is still great. Speaking of art as of today Andrea Sorrentino did 14 straight issues of I, Vampire. That's gotta be some kind of record for DC in the last decade or so. Right? He's getting a raise or maybe someone from his family that DC has as hostage back? They may be tyrants, but benevolent tyrants. And Sorrentino appears not to be human. Or lazy.

Superman #13 - Hey a fun Superman comicbook! The DC Assassination Squad is probably moving in on Lobdell's residence as we speak. Silently killing anybody who gets in their way. Including small sheep. It was nice reading his books.

I suppose you could say that what Lobdell is doing is bad. But, it's a different kind of bad from the usual DC bad. That bad is bad in a way that it makes me wanna kill myself and take a couple of hundred innocent infants with me. For company. And snacks. And I'm sure we'll all agree that that is bad. It's the type of bad produced by emotionally dead ghouls whose empathy has eroded from years of drug and porn abuse that realized their lives are forfeit and that they might as well spend the rest of their decomposition into goo by lifelessly hitting letters upon a keyboard in an attempt to bring merciful non-existence upon reality as we know it. A mediocre hell of greyness and indifference. With shitty rushed art and Barbara Gordon narrating.

But, Lobdell is fun.

Prophet #30 - This continues to be great. Not much I can say about it. Conan in space with great 3rd person narration and lizard sex. Sweet art, great colors. Lizard sex.

[Sci-2]

It'll be extremely unfair, though, if he ends up taking credits for the return of the mutant-gene, when that only happened exactly because things didn't go his way.

Wait. It seemed like his Cyke's plan was always the right thing to do. Xavier died because Steroid Man fucked up b/c him and Iron Man couldn't stand to be obsolete.

I wouldn't make that much sense, though - I mean, if people take his side after everything that happened, what will be the point of Cap's Uncanny Avengers?

Heh, this was worthless from the start and probably won't see 10 issues so I don't think it'll be a problem. ;-)

[Winterfell is Burning]

Just read this in a Bendis interview regardling Cyclops in all new x-men

"To the world at large, the public doesn't know Cyclops killed Xavier," said Bendis. "Even though everybody saw it … everybody saw a different thing." The writer elaborated, stating the argument will continue on. "To the public, there was a very cool guy named Scott Summers [who changed the world], did it and then suddenly disappeared." Bendis said Cyclops will become a very public face of a mutant revolution."

Guess I was maybe being too hasty with Bendis and Cyclops. Seems like while the Avengers and most of the x-men hate him, he may be a bit of a poster boy for mankind. Maybe he doesn't even need to be broken out of prison and is released due to public demand. Which may be inadvertently meta given the appareant fan reaction.

Do you have a link?

Anyway, this confirms my theory that either Bendis agreed Cyclops was right, or at the very least believed that's what fans would believe.

That would be interesting, but I'd be a bit more cautious where Bendis is concerned. I mean, the man is great writing team books, but for individual characters, especially after some major change, well... I don't think I'll ever forgive him for turning the Scarlet Witch into a crying mad-woman, even if the events in which that happened will always be my favorites.

The Wanda situation, if Busiek was at Marvel, or there was someone smart there, could be fixed with a few words, really: Immortus was behind it, and show it from Disassembled already.

Seriously, you have a villain whose goal in life is to make sure the Avengers get too big, and the events from Disassembled to Siege were about dividing the Avengers, make them fight each other, nearly destroy mutantkind, be infiltrated by Skrulls and controlled by Norman Osborn- not only this would explain her sudden going crazy at random moment better, but that would turn Immortus into a master puppeteer that would make even Loki jealous. Instead, he was just killed.

Now, it's too late- it would feel too forced of a retcon.

As for Bendis' run, I liked it for the most part until Siege; afterwards, it was clear he struggled with an editorially-mandated team, and had run out of ideas, since he was better when shaking the status quo- the best part of his run was Dark Avengers easily.

But if that will be Cyclops' new status in the public eye, I wonder how the rest of his Extinction Team will react about that. I mean, most of them, if not all, are probably angry with him for how things went, but if from a PR perspective staying around him is the best option, as if nothing had happened, well, that will be brilliant. All the conflicts! It'll be extremely unfair, though, if he ends up taking credits for the return of the mutant-gene, when that only happened exactly because things didn't go his way.

But things WENT his way. His plan was: use Hope to control the Phoenix and restore mutantkind, and that's exactly what happened, and his main priority since House of M was achieve this.

I wouldn't make that much sense, though - I mean, if people take his side after everything that happened, what will be the point of Cap's Uncanny Avengers?

Well, it doesn't mean the public will stop hating mutants.

But obviously UA is shameless cash-grab.

[red snow]

Wait. It seemed like his Cyke's plan was always the right thing to do. Xavier died because Steroid Man fucked up b/c him and Iron Man couldn't stand to be obsolete.

Heh, this was worthless from the start and probably won't see 10 issues so I don't think it'll be a problem. ;-)

Considering they brought Havok on the team because Cyclops' name wasn't worth shit it does seem strange that the general public may think of Cyclops as a hero. It would be fun if they started to mistrust the Avengers over Cyclops' imprisonment. I mean even if Cap and The Iron Man hate Cyclops they can't risk turning mutants into a hate group by telling the public about Cyclops (from their POV).

It does make me wonder if one of the way for the "wanted" extinction team to escape is by hiding in plain sight and embracing the public further and saying they still want to make the world a better place and the proof is they did (until it was taken away). I don't think Marvel has ever had an "Authority" style team but this could be a good opportunity to explore it, I guess Colossus must doing somethng else to wind up on the run though.

Nephrite, thanks for the reviews. Your loss is our gain when it comes to bad comics. I'm shocked at the coverage Superman is getting. Even the BBC mentioned Superman was quitting as a journalist. I'll give Lobdell some credit - he knows how to get easy publicity. although I can imagine reporters' eye rolling wheneve he tried to tell them about the H'El story coming up.

[red snow]

WiB this is the interview with Bendis. There's some shamelessy obvious plugs to Guardians of the galaxy thrown in there too.

[Nephrite]

Considering they brought Havok on the team because Cyclops' name wasn't worth shit it does seem strange that the general public may think of Cyclops as a hero. It would be fun if they started to mistrust the Avengers over Cyclops' imprisonment. I mean even if Cap and The Iron Man hate Cyclops they can't risk turning mutants into a hate group by telling the public about Cyclops (from their POV).

Well, as far as the public is concerned off course they don't know.

The biggest part of the battle happened on a beach on Utopia and it was rather low-budget as far as comics go. Probably looked like the X-men are having a barbecue and swingers party around a campfire from San Francisco. Seriously, I've seen drunken brawls with more fireworks. Then Cyclops went Dark Phoenix and he was probably flying at the speed of light blowing up everything all over the world (heh, still crack up at that shot of Hawkeye shooting an arrow at him. Yeah, that helped. You are a drop in a waterfall, man). As far as people are concerned Earth seemed like it's pulling a Krypton on them.

Nephrite, thanks for the reviews. Your loss is our gain when it comes to bad comics.

Hey, this was like great week. I don't remember when was the last time there were 5 good comics published in one week. Back when Morrison was on 7 Solders and ASS and Waid on Legion? That's like 3 reboots ago.

I'm shocked at the coverage Superman is getting. Even the BBC mentioned Superman was quitting as a journalist. I'll give Lobdell some credit - he knows how to get easy publicity. although I can imagine reporters' eye rolling wheneve he tried to tell them about the H'El story coming up.

Lobdell gets the job done. He knows how to plot and pace a book. Which a lot of these young whipper-snappers don't. I'm not surprised he's getting all these gigs. Editors needs to hire someone to write these products and frankly don't care about artistic merit of individual books. And they know Lobdell can get it done and do it before the deadline. That's why most editors hire someone they know.

Also, he's friends with Harras. Just to think if Waid didn't say what he said about ol' Bob we'd be reading his S-book now.

But, H'el looks dumb. Still not as dumb as Kara "Hey a giant zombie dragon, Krypton is alive you, lying ass" Zor-El.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Considering they brought Havok on the team because Cyclops' name wasn't worth shit it does seem strange that the general public may think of Cyclops as a hero. It would be fun if they started to mistrust the Avengers over Cyclops' imprisonment. I mean even if Cap and The Iron Man hate Cyclops they can't risk turning mutants into a hate group by telling the public about Cyclops (from their POV).

Well, if Cyclops was so hated, it would be hard to bring his brother to be an Avengers leader...in theory, I'm not sure Marvel is making this obvious connection, as they often don't.

It does make me wonder if one of the way for the "wanted" extinction team to escape is by hiding in plain sight and embracing the public further and saying they still want to make the world a better place and the proof is they did (until it was taken away). I don't think Marvel has ever had an "Authority" style team but this could be a good opportunity to explore it, I guess Colossus must doing somethng else to wind up on the run though.

That would be interesting. I hope they get their own book, rather than stay in ANXM only.

[Lady Octarina]

Wait. It seemed like his Cyke's plan was always the right thing to do. Xavier died because Steroid Man fucked up b/c him and Iron Man couldn't stand to be obsolete.

But things WENT his way. His plan was: use Hope to control the Phoenix and restore mutantkind, and that's exactly what happened, and his main priority since House of M was achieve this.

There are two ways to look at the conclusion of AvX: on one hand, especially for Cyclops fans, you can think that everything would have worked out anyway and the Avengers intervention only led to an unnecessary bloodbath. I disagree with that view: I think, it things had happened any other way, when Hope became the Phoenix she wouldn't have been able to control it and use that power to bring the mutants back. Considering how she almost lost control when she became the Phoenix in the end, how the only thing that stopped her from making the same mistakes as the P5 was that yin-yang thing with Wanda, and some emotional maturity she wouldn't have gained if she didn't see her friends being corrupted by that power first, then no, things worked out in the end despite Cyclops' plan, not because of it.

Of course, in the end it was revealed that his belief (and it was nothing but blind faith, which is the first problem I had with the whole thing from the start) was correct, but it wouldn't have had a happy ending if things had gone according to his plan. Just one thing: my posts might leave the impression I agree with all the stupid decisions the Avengers made throughout the event. I thought their invasion of Utopia was absurd and unjustifiable, and that nothing could be as ridiculous as Iron Man's intervention. But I did agree with them that the likelihood of the Phoenix arrival destroying Earth was greater than it coming to save mutant-kind; that was the rational, obvious conclusion. Damn you, comic book logic.

Heh, this was worthless from the start and probably won't see 10 issues so I don't think it'll be a problem. ;-)

The premise is absurd, but the idea is pretty good. Remender said he had material for 20 issues so far, wasn't it? So I doubt it will be canceled before that, not to mention it will probably sell more than any other Now title.

What I think might happen with the "people supporting Cylops" thing, though: a part of humans and mutant-kind will idolize him or whatever for the good actions they saw him making as the Phoenix. Another part will be doubtful/believe in the possibility that he brought as much destruction as good actions, and that's the part the UA will reach out for in order to rehabilitate mutants. Also, Sinister has now taken the form of the X-Men's former PR representative; I can't help but think he'll use whatever he might know about Cyclops against him.

When is All-New X-Men out anyway?

[Winterfell is Burning]

I just read JIM (and was interrupted FOUR times during it) and...CRAP! :crying: Goddamn you, Loki! One of the greatest runs in recent years, if not ever. I'm looking forward to anything Gillen does now.

There are two ways to look at the conclusion of AvX: on one hand, especially for Cyclops fans, you can think that everything would have worked out anyway and the Avengers intervention only led to an unnecessary bloodbath. I disagree with that view: I think, it things had happened any other way, when Hope became the Phoenix she wouldn't have been able to control it and use that power to bring the mutants back. Considering how she almost lost control when she became the Phoenix in the end, how the only thing that stopped her from making the same mistakes as the P5 was that yin-yang thing with Wanda, and some emotional maturity she wouldn't have gained if she didn't see her friends being corrupted by that power first, then no, things worked out in the end despite Cyclops' plan, not because of it.

Cap. America's plan was having Tony Stark build a gun and try to kill the Phoenix, and Wolverine's was to kill Hope- both of those plans would result in the destruction of the universe- from that perspective, Cyclops is clearly the winner, because his was the only plan with a chance of working, no matter how remote, and that's why it was adopted- incidentally, that's why Marvel is now admitting he's right, because they have no sane way of explainiing it in a way that makes the Avengers the right ones.

As for the P5, Jonathan Hickman flat-out says the X-men were the heroes in issue #6, and if there's one writer that think things through at Marvel, it's him. Reed Richards, as written by Bendis, indicates the same. Without the absurd provocations by the Avengers (check out their reactions in #6- they are JEALOUS), it's likely that the world would be a much better place. Hickman also said that Wanda's "visions" were a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for Hope, she was a teenager nervous when she had a big task ahead, that's understandable, but she was trained for it her enfire life; Marvel turned her into a weak-willed idiot in the crossover and pretended she never had any training other than be punched in the face, but that's not true if you read every other appereance by her. Sinister and Unit knew it too, that's why they tried to manipulate Cyclops and the P5 to make things go in a different path.

The ying-yang thing with Wanda makes no sense- not only that does not connect with every Phoenix appereance ever, well, if it was necessary for the universe to have her and the Phoenix, then by saying "No More Phoenix", and taking it away from Hope (and attempting to destroy it?) they are already disrupting the natural order of the universe and putting it at risk again. As the Iron Fist connection (the very own definition of a Deus Ex Machina, no?), it's a forced attempt to justify the unnecessary Avengers presence in the story.

[AverageGuy]

I disagree with that view: I think, it things had happened any other way, when Hope became the Phoenix she wouldn't have been able to control it.

But that's not the way the Phoenix works. Plenty of people have held the power without losing control. Even the original Phoenix didn't go off the deep end until Mastermind started screwing with her head. That's why the X-Men haven't gone nuts every other time the Phoenix force has shown up since.

And destroying the Phoenix like Cap wanted certainly wouldn't have improved things. The White Hot Room is the heart of the M'Kraan Crystal, the nexus of all realities. Killing the Phoenix would not end well. I'd say it's the other way; [Cap hate]things went well in spite of Captain Aryan walking into a sovereign nation and telling the minorities who lived there why their informed opinion didn't matter.[/Cap hate]

[delete this account pls]

Brady,

You must have grown up reading the same comics I did. I actually had subscriptions to both of those, shortly after the #1's. Fabian Niceza, with Mark Bagley and Darick Robertson for most of the run on NW -- pretty great.

And Valentino's Guardians, while corny in a lot of ways, was generally quite fun (though character designs for new characters were very firmly stuck in the 90s mode -- the Stark were particularly egregious). I admit, when I first heard that there was going to be a Guardians of the Galaxy movie from Marvel, I was excited... only to learn it's for the more modern team. Nothing wrong with that, really, but I haven't followed that one.

I haven't read Guardians since I was a kid (I don't even know what happened to those issues, except that they are gone) but I still legitimately love New Warriors and think it holds up. It's dated sure, but no worse than any other comic of the period. NW and GotG were the first "new" comics I discovered, that didnt have 50 or 100 or 300 issues of history, so I felt like I had a little bit of ownership of them.