The End of Darkstar

[lysmonger]

Darkstar's life in many ways parallels the story of Jesus.

I'm expecting great things.

Darkstar is a legendary bro king.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Darkstar's life in many ways parallels the story of Jesus.

I'm expecting great things.

:rofl:

[DaeneryStormBorn]

Darkstar's life in many ways parallels the story of Jesus.

I'm expecting great things.

Best post on this thread :rofl:

[Grip]

I really hope that Balon Swann suceeds in braining Darkturd, if nothing else then to see whether he is resurrected! For this is the man who is regarded as the most dangerous man in Dorne, who attacked but failed to kill an unarmed innocent (10 year old?) girl. Let his enemies tremble!

[Ran]

Alternatively, GRRM wanted her to stay alive but injured, and so he brought in a factor outside of Dayne's control (terrified horse shying away) combined with the fact he only had the one moment available before he had to high tail it into play.

It could have been Damon Blackfyre, Jaime Lannister, or the Hound swinging the sword, and the result would have been the same. Because that's what the plot required, and Martin's already made it plain that being exceptionally good does not mean a 100% success rate.

People are very weird about that business.

[ab aeterno]

Alternatively, GRRM wanted her to stay alive but injured, and so he brought in a factor outside of Dayne's control (terrified horse shying away) combined with the fact he only had the one moment available before he had to high tail it into play.

It could have been Damon Blackfyre, Jaime Lannister, or the Hound swinging the sword, and the result would have been the same. Because that's what the plot required, and Martin's already made it plain that being exceptionally good does not mean a 100% success rate.

People are very weird about that business.

It's still amusing though, given his reputation. I think people might react similarly to Barristan, the Hound, Jaime, or anyone else if they were introduced in such a bumbling manner, imo. I mean, imagine if Ser Barristan had said his line about how easily he could defeat the KG and then gotten clocked by one of the gold cloaks. He would have been hilarious.

When you drop a line like

"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night," you have to be able to back that up or people are going to laugh at you, even if it was divine intervention that brought you down.

[lysmonger]

Alternatively, GRRM wanted her to stay alive but injured, and so he brought in a factor outside of Dayne's control (terrified horse shying away) combined with the fact he only had the one moment available before he had to high tail it into play.

It could have been Damon Blackfyre, Jaime Lannister, or the Hound swinging the sword, and the result would have been the same. Because that's what the plot required, and Martin's already made it plain that being exceptionally good does not mean a 100% success rate.

People are very weird about that business.

Its just a tad bit weird-of the people that would be hiring Varys and Doran, both of them seem opposed to killing children, especially Varys. Its interesting if there is going to be a whoah moment. In which there is a huge twist.

[Ran]

... in such a bumbling manner, imo.

But it's indicated that it's not bumbling in the text. That's what some readers choose to take out of it, but in the novel, everyone's just thinking it was a mighty close shave and were it not for dumb luck Myrcella would be dead.

Rather than contextualizing it, it seems to boil down to a juvenile, "LOL he missed he suxxors" kind of thing.

(OTOH, if you're someone who believes that Martin's bad-asses never miss, and you realize that Martin does mean Darkstar to be considered a bad-ass, then it's easy: Darkstar didn't miss, he knew that horse was going to shy and he deliberately aimed to disfigure but not kill Myrcella. Because that's how he rolls.)

lysmonger,

Varys is not opposed to killing children. At all. See his conversation with Illyrio in AGoT.

[lysmonger]

But it's indicated that it's not bumbling in the text. That's what some readers choose to take out of it, but in the novel, everyone's just thinking it was a mighty close shave and were it not for dumb luck Myrcella would be dead.

Rather than contextualizing it, it seems to boil down to a juvenile, "LOL he missed he suxxors" kind of thing.

(OTOH, if you're someone who believes that Martin's bad-asses never miss, and you realize that Martin does mean Darkstar to be considered a bad-ass, then it's easy: Darkstar didn't miss, he knew that horse was going to shy and he deliberately aimed to disfigure but not kill Myrcella. Because that's how he rolls.)

lysmonger,

Varys is not opposed to killing children. At all. See his conversation with Illyrio in AGoT.

Ran, Yes, in reference to the children who are the birds- that makes sense.

I had a thinking that Darkstar is working and in line with Varys. It makes sense that he would not exactly try to kill Mycrella but to illicit a reaction\

Granted at the time this is happening, Young Griffith is making his way from Volantis at the same time/within a month or two. It makes sense to Varys to pressure Doran. Which makes me think, did Varys lie to Doran about Cersei's ambush?

btw, have an idea on grrms insparations on aegon the fifth targaryen and rhaegar if willing to ehar.

[ab aeterno]

But it's indicated that it's not bumbling in the text. That's what some readers choose to take out of it, but in the novel, everyone's just thinking it was a mighty close shave and were it not for dumb luck Myrcella would be dead.

Rather than contextualizing it, it seems to boil down to a juvenile, "LOL he missed he suxxors" kind of thing.

(OTOH, if you're someone who believes that Martin's bad-asses never miss, and you realize that Martin does mean Darkstar to be considered a bad-ass, then it's easy: Darkstar didn't miss, he knew that horse was going to shy and he deliberately aimed to disfigure but not kill Myrcella. Because that's how he rolls.)

I didn't mean it quite like that. It's just one of those things that can come off as pretty funny if you temporarily abandon suspension of disbelief. That applies to many characters and events, of course, but not all of them have the cheesy line before them.

That being said, I don't really have a problem with the whole Myrcella issue. As you say, contextually it makes sense and is entirely understandably and everyone is entirely relieved.

The Myrcella issue is just a tongue in cheek way to poke fun at him is all, for me, anyway.

[lysmonger]

I really wish Gerold Dayne(Darkstar) and lysono Maar basically corrupt Aegon(young griff) into being womanizing badasses like themselves. Like essentially creating him into a blackfyre, whether or not his birth.

It would be so funny if Aegon the fifth at fifteen starts having bastards and mistresses like no other.

[Jon AS]

There's basically two possibilities for what kind of character Darkstar is.

He's either a (cheap?) plot device to injure Myrcella, or he's a character we're supposed to take seriously on his own merits. If it's the latter, he is a failure (so far?). We know next to nothing about him (other than his ability to deliver terrible dialogue with seeming conviction), yet he is "the most dangerous man in Dorne". Compare that to the larger-than-life Oberyn, about whom we get a massive infodump the moment he shows up so we know he means trouble.

And if you do think he's meant to be a character that stands on his own, how can you not mock him for not living up to his reputation?

[The hairy bear]

It's still amusing though, given his reputation. I think people might react similarly to Barristan, the Hound, Jaime, or anyone else if they were introduced in such a bumbling manner, imo.

To be fair, Jaime was introduced failing to kill a seven year old boy, in a situation where much more was at stake.

[ab aeterno]

To be fair, Jaime was introduced failing to kill a seven year old boy, in a situation where much more was at stake.

I think the difference is that trying to kill Bran was to show who Jaime was and to dispute the idea that he was a wonderful knight, etc. IIRC this is after the 'that is what a king should look like,' comment, etc. I concede though that you could make the comparison.

[Rolex Baratheon]

New crackpot: what if George is wrong? =O

[Ashur]

I don't know what people had with Darkstar. He had a couple of grandilocuent lines, yes. He failed on killing Myrcella, ok, but it was just a slash dropped while on the run, and Myrcella's scary horse move away fast enough to avoid it hitting plain on Myrcella. We really don't know much about him. But, when GRRM gave us hints about the exceptional skills or intelligence or whatever on someone, it use to be for real. Its like people accusing Rhaegar on being irresponsible and a kind of egoist selfish all-for-love guy... but it's absurd, as the books go by, we are given hints pointing that he seems to have very strong motivations for his acts. It's the same with Darkstar, i don't believe on GRRM spreading a certain view on Darkstar as a dangerous, weapon-skilled man (Doran words and Arianne opinion goes this way), to finally make us learn that he's an idiot guy with a big sword. I thinl there's a fashion on ridiculize some character just for fun, or for showing the rest of us how fast you got a real resemblance of the character while everyone esle is mistaken. I can't imagine how someone can say something like

I really wish Gerold Dayne(Darkstar) and lysono Maar basically corrupt Aegon(young griff) into being womanizing badasses like themselves. Like essentially creating him into a blackfyre, whether or not his birth.

It would be so funny if Aegon the fifth at fifteen starts having bastards and mistresses like no other.

Womanizing basasses? Really? You see it plain and clear? Where, in the few POVs where Darkstar is featured or is mencioned, we are provided with this resemblance? I fact, it seems to be just the opposite, for what we know.

[Timzy]

Think Darkstar is all talk but he will do something in the next book, hopefully,that will be a major plot point but include him dying (e.g Quentyn).

:)

[Scipio Africanus]

It could have been Damon Blackfyre, Jaime Lannister, or the Hound swinging the sword, and the result would have been the same. Because that's what the plot required, and Martin's already made it plain that being exceptionally good does not mean a 100% success rate.

I think you're missing the point here IMO. He tried to kill an unarmed little girl. Combined with his own cheesy dialogue and the buildup Martin gave us through Doran and Arianne that Darkstar was actually dangerous, is it really so surprising Darkstar is rediculed?

Let go back to the trying to kill an unarmed little girl part. Do you think its "badass" that mr. Hound killed Micah by riding him down and having a laugh in Eddard face? Is it "badass" Jamie tried to teach Bran how to fly by tossing him out of a window? Is it "badass" that Blount, Trant etc beat Sansa bloody?

I don't consider it "badass" at all. Combined with the anti-climatic scene and the aforementioned textual context the only thing I think of is that Darkstar is nothing more then a douchebag.

[chrisdaw]

Its just a tad bit weird-of the people that would be hiring Varys and Doran, both of them seem opposed to killing children, especially Varys. Its interesting if there is going to be a whoah moment. In which there is a huge twist.

Or Varys never told him to kill a child, he was just there as eyes and to help ensure Arianne's plan came to fruition and dragged Dorne into war with the throne, but when Darkstar saw Hotah he knew the game was up and so took matters into his own hands. And failed comically. Well, to be fair, he did get away where he shouldn't have, and his failure wasn't even the biggest failure of that day.

[Ran]

I don't consider it "badass" at all.

I don't consider any of these things "badass". But most people who focus on Darkstar not killing Myrcella seem to think that it would have been somehow cooler if he had. I'd guess all those characters ought to be considered "douchebags" for killing or trying to kill kids. The fact that the plot necessitated a failed rather than a successful attempt doesn't mean the character is intended to be any more or less a "douchebag" or "cool" than those other characters.

What was comical about it, anyways? She's disfigured thanks to it.

How many movies have we seen where the top-notch assassin is about to snipe someone, when something completely out of their control leads them to miss -- the target turns away because of a car accident distracts them, or pigeons fly up in their face and they stumble back, or what have you? You can play these things for comedy (see The Jerk), but most times it's... well, "Whew, that was close!" No one goes, "He's so lucky he's got a crap assassin after him," because that robs these stories of narrative tension if you don't feel there's a danger. It's the same with Darkstar.

Anyways, it's all subjective, but Martin's intentions were not comical, in any case; he was, to say the least, very surprised by lampooning of the character. What readers take out of it is what readers take out of it.