Stuff That's Confirmed/Hinted at in aWoIaF App, v.2

[FittleLinger]

About the Loras thing, yes, I take it as "playing along" as well. As a matter of fact, have we ever had any character of fair importance who dies off-screen and is really dead? Also, we have it through Cersei's POV - she isn't subtle at all, and that's what she wants to hear. We have POV characters, and thats what they believe, and want to believe.

I know the wording in the app seems to suggest it's definite, but look at the chapter itself - Cersei wants to hear that, she is not the one who would look for body or face language to determine whether someone is lying, or to make a few connections in her mind and take it with a pinch of salt. So I don't know...

With regards to this - Davos' "death" also happens offscreen, when you put the spoiler protection for ADWD what does it say about him?

PS: It's not the same though, because death is definite, and we know after that that he is not really dead, so to say Davos' is dead - LOL he's not, is kind of sloppier than to say someone is injured, because whether Loras is really injured or not, he still can survive and we as readers know this fo sure.

[Scipio Africanus]

ETA: Scip, I'll be magnanimous in my LF victory ^_^ But I think we learned an important lesson here, which is don't fuck with me about LF! (jokes, jokes)

Well, I already agreed with you on much of LF. I will concede defeat on his appointment to KL.

That still leaves his "self made" man part, which is indeed questionable especially for his early carreer. I guess we have to call it that he was a succesful courtier and networker.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

With regards to this - Davos' "death" also happens offscreen, when you put the spoiler protection for ADWD what does it say about him?

I actually did that — pre-ADWD, it leaves out his mission to White Harbor entirely.

[butterbumps!]

Well, I already agreed with you on much of LF. I will concede defeat on his appointment to KL.

That still leaves his "self made" man part, which is indeed questionable especially for his early carreer. I guess we have to call it that he was a succesful courtier and networker.

Oh Scip, I love fighting about LF with you. It really was a joke.

[Scipio Africanus]

So the book that turned Rhaegar from bookish to knightish was in fact a prophesy about a Promised Prince. And Aemon and he discussed it over raven mail. Hmm.....I think Aemon knows who Jon is. Before he leaves, Aemon just happens to mark a section of the book the Jade Compendium that speaks of AA for Jon read. Just interesting to think about what Aemon was thinking here. Aemon reveals later that he thinks this PtwP figure is Dany, but I wonder what provoked him to show Jon the same prophesy he discussed with Jon's father.

How could Aemon have known that Jon was the PtwP? He was blind by the time Jon hit the Wall. How would Aemon have known that Eddard took Rhaeger's child (Jon wasn't born yet, how did Rhaeger know what gender the child would be?) and claimed him as his own?

That they corresponded is indeed confirmed and a pleasant surprise, but I don't see how Aemon could've linked Jon to Rhaeger's child. And if he did, he didn't do a very good job preparing him then...

Oh Scip, I love fighting about LF with you. It really was a joke.

I know. :)

[Kittykatknits]

This is sort of disappointing as I was just starting to reread some Dornish POV's, motivated by a very interesting discussion about the Water Gardens. Doesn't fit at all with the ideas and theories I had going into the reread.

I'm curious what theories you were coming up with? I'm still not sure what to make of Doran. At the end, my take is that he was sending sand snakes off to KL in order to cause further chaos, making it easier for the Targs to retake the throne.

I think it would also confirm the reason why Arianne is currently on her way to Aegon. It's not just to check him out or secure an alliance, but for marital reasons as well. Although, I don't know if the timing would work as he may be operating under the belief that his son is still alive.

Now, if Arianne is one her way in order to strike a marital alliance, which this might hint at, it has me wondering how Aegon will react. Aren't Jon C. and Aegon still operating with the plan that Aegon will eventually marry Dany?

If they refuse a marital alliance with Dorne because of Dany, how will Doran react to that news?

[MarianneSnow]

Oh- one more thing on Rhaegar and Aemon

I think a number of us had assumed this already, but here it is confirmed. "One day Rhaegar read a book of a promised prince who would fight against a great evil and became convinced that he was that prince."

This is one of my pet theories related to this that's now confirmed too: "He corresponded with Maester Aemon on the Wall, who discussed the prophesy with him."

So the book that turned Rhaegar from bookish to knightish was in fact a prophesy about a Promised Prince. And Aemon and he discussed it over raven mail. Hmm.....I think Aemon knows who Jon is. Before he leaves, Aemon just happens to mark a section of the book the Jade Compendium that speaks of AA for Jon read. Just interesting to think about what Aemon was thinking here. Aemon reveals later that he thinks this PtwP figure is Dany, but I wonder what provoked him to show Jon the same prophesy he discussed with Jon's father.

I agree here. I do think Aemon figured out who Jon really is and I am waiting for more people to realize it too.

[Winter's Knight]

If they refuse a marital alliance with Dorne because of Dany, how will Doran react to that news?

We'll find out in about twenty years.

[Scipio Africanus]

If they refuse a marital alliance with Dorne because of Dany, how will Doran react to that news?

Aegon already went his own way without going to his "aunt" by taking the GC and landing by himself without her.

Why wouldn't he go ahead and forge his own alliances? He's going to have to anyway, he only has 10000 men, he needs friends (which Varys undoubtedly will provide for).

[Summer is Ending]

Roose, Harrenhal + Weasel soup:

This summarizes nicely something that I think is kind of subtle. When Tywin leaves Harrenhal, Roose turns the Brave Companions, and "uses them to place northmen within the castle walls as alleged prisoners" which are then "freed" through the weasel soup episode. That's what Arya "didn't truly understand" that Jaqen was trying to get her to see after they did the soup-- the Brave Companions were already Roose's.

Roose relays false orders to Helman Tallhart and Robett Glover to attack Duskendale, where they are defeated by Tarly and Gregor. Roose alleged that these orders came from Robb, but the orders were his own.

The app cites Roose's official point of betrayal when Jaime and Brienne show up at Harrenhal. The app makes it sound like Tywin and Walder were already in cahoots about the RW when Roose joins in-- it says "Roose weds fat Walda, then joins in Lord Frey's conspiracy to murder Robb during Edmure's wedding."

That was pretty obvious from the books as it flat out says the Goat came to Roose's camp. Didn't know people questioned that.

“Who are you men?” A crease appeared between Robett Glover’s brows. “You were not with Hoat when he came to Lord Bolton’s encampment. Are you of the Brave Companions?”

About Duskendale, is that word for word. If he 'officialy' doesn't turn until Kingslayer does it saying anything about him sending word of Glover and Tallhart to Tywin or was that just all the southron forces doing in their defeat?

[butterbumps!]

How could Aemon have known that Jon was the PtwP? He was blind by the time Jon hit the Wall. How would Aemon have known that Eddard took Rhaeger's child (Jon wasn't born yet, how did Rhaeger know what gender the child would be?) and claimed him as his own?

That they corresponded is indeed confirmed and a pleasant surprise, but I don't see how Aemon could've linked Jon to Rhaeger's child. And if he did, he didn't do a very good job preparing him then...

If Aemon couldn't piece it together himself, the fact that we have confirmation Aemon and Rhaegar corresponded opens speculation about whether Rhaegar made contact with Aemon about Lyanna-gate.

I'd say Aemon prepared Jon just fine ("kill the boy" etc etc) Told him about their family history as well, and took a special interest in him. No, I'm more convinced than ever that Aemon knew. It explains, too, why Aemon says "Kind is something I'm rarely called" or whatever the quote is to Tyrion during his visit. We see Aemon as kind, probably because we see him through the POV of his great-nephew.

I'm curious what theories you were coming up with? I'm still not sure what to make of Doran. At the end, my take is that he was sending sand snakes off to KL in order to cause further chaos, making it easier for the Targs to retake the throne.

I think it would also confirm the reason why Arianne is currently on her way to Aegon. It's not just to check him out or secure an alliance, but for marital reasons as well. Although, I don't know if the timing would work as he may be operating under the belief that his son is still alive.

Now, if Arianne is one her way in order to strike a marital alliance, which this might hint at, it has me wondering how Aegon will react. Aren't Jon C. and Aegon still operating with the plan that Aegon will eventually marry Dany?

If they refuse a marital alliance with Dorne because of Dany, how will Doran react to that news?

This one might be my doing, as I harbor the theory that Doran has an additional endgame than just taking power for himself. Dr P, that Water Gardens crackpot might not be dead from this, especially given the fact that the Water Gardens symbolize a Martell-Targ combination of magnanimous power; combines extreme force (dragon symbol) to enable altruistic goals (equality symbolized by the WG). I suppose "Enlightened Despotism" is the term I'm going for.

That was pretty obvious from the books as it flat out says the Goat came to Roose's camp. Didn't know people questioned that.

“Who are you men?” A crease appeared between Robett Glover’s brows. “You were not with Hoat when he came to Lord Bolton’s encampment. Are you of the Brave Companions?”

About Duskendale, is that word for word. If he 'officialy' doesn't turn until Kingslayer does it saying anything about him sending word of Glover and Tallhart to Tywin or was that just all the southron forces doing in their defeat?

I thought it was kind of subtle. I'm not sure how many picked up on that. I didn't my first time.

It describes Roose's decision to align with the Lannisters being made upon Jaime's arrival, which is after the Duskendale thing. It's unclear from the app whether the "falso orders" surrounding Duskendale were "false" because Roose was trying his hand at military strategy on behalf of Robb's cause and failed, or if he was already trying to undermine Robb's efforts.

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm curious what theories you were coming up with? I'm still not sure what to make of Doran. At the end, my take is that he was sending sand snakes off to KL in order to cause further chaos, making it easier for the Targs to retake the throne.

Nothing really fleshed out. I have barely given Dornish chapters a second glance because I find them really boring. Occasionally I browse threads about them. There was some discussion on the Water Gardens that was quite interesting (it was probably butters who mentioned it somewhere). Mostly ideas and theories that Doran has an altruistic endgame.

[sarah.jenice]

Wow. Just...wow!

This is so fantastic! Thank you to everyone involved!

[Kittykatknits]

We'll find out in about twenty years.

*snort*. That might be the funnies thing I've read all week.

Aegon already went his own way without going to his "aunt" by taking the GC and landing by himself without her.

Why wouldn't he go ahead and forge his own alliances? He's going to have to anyway, he only has 10000 men, he needs friends (which Varys undoubtedly will provide for).

He went after talking to Tyrion who told him that if he continued on the path towards Dany, he would appear before her like a beggar. So, Aegon went directly to Westeros ahead of her with the idea that he would pull her to Westeros and they would meet on more equal terms.

I won't argue whether this was a good idea or not, not sure that I can, especially from a military perspective. But, Quentyn arrived in Mereen with nothing but an old letter and promises. Dany realized that she could not leave just for that. I don't think she would have made a different decision with Aegon although she may very well have liked having family again. Whether or not she would believe his story is something else...

Nothing really fleshed out. I have barely given Dornish chapters a second glance because I find them really boring. Occasionally I browse threads about them. There was some discussion on the Water Gardens that was quite interesting (it was probably butters who mentioned it somewhere). Mostly ideas and theories that Doran has an altruistic endgame.

I also find the Dorne chapters really boring. I was hoping you might have some theories that would give me a reason to care.

I'd kinda curious about this "altruistic endgame". I usually skim Dorne related threads but I rarely care enough to contribute. I'd always thought Doran was merely about revenge.

[Lykos]

<snip>

It describes Roose's decision to align with the Lannisters being made upon Jaime's arrival, which is after the Duskendale thing. It's unclear from the app whether the "falso orders" surrounding Duskendale were "false" because Roose was trying his hand at military strategy on behalf of Robb's cause and failed, or if he was already trying to undermine Robb's efforts.

Darn, I thought Roose and Tywin might have been plotting to place Roose at Harrenhal. So their individual schemes to undermine Robb just converged.

[sarah.jenice]

Please Help~

Pardon my ignorance everyone, but is more than one app coming out? I've seen reviews of one that came out (not sure if it is this one), and many people complained that it was too much like the wiki.

The people who weren't crazy about that app said something else was in the works including a more thorough history of the world, and I think it went back in time much longer than the current series. I'm not sure if that is a book or an app, but if anyone knows what I'm talking about, will you please give me some more info.

I love the books and don't mind buying this app (if my software will support it), but I am really interested in learning as in-depth a history of this series as I could find.

Please let me know if anyone knows more. Thank you very much!

[Scipio Africanus]

I won't argue whether this was a good idea or not, not sure that I can, especially from a military perspective.

Actually it was far better then the alternative (and the original idea by Illyrio) that they march to Mereen.

Now they've taken everyone by surprise (always good in militairy terms) and Varys has done his best to create chaos in Westeros.

The real question is how many friends can Varys and Aegon make? As for Dany...she's still in Essos and they have no idea how long it will take for her to get to Westeros, if at all, so why not go ahead and get yourself installed without waiting for an uncertain Dany?

The people who weren't crazy about that app said something else was in the works including a more thorough history of the world, and I think it went back in time much longer than the current series. I'm not sure if that is a book or an app, but if anyone knows what I'm talking about, will you please give me some more info.

I have the app but the free version is nothing more then the wiki. You need to buy info packs so it seems.

[butterbumps!]

Please Help~

Pardon my ignorance everyone, but is more than one app coming out? I've seen reviews of one that came out (not sure if it is this one), and many people complained that it was too much like the wiki.

The people who weren't crazy about that app said something else was in the works including a more thorough history of the world, and I think it went back in time much longer than the current series. I'm not sure if that is a book or an app, but if anyone knows what I'm talking about, will you please give me some more info.

I love the books and don't mind buying this app (if my software will support it), but I am really interested in learning as in-depth a history of this series as I could find.

Please let me know if anyone knows more. Thank you very much!

This is the "Official app" that was released last week; Ran came on the forum the day it came out and wrote an OP for that "The End of Darkstar" which is how I found out about it.

There's a separate physical book coming out, "The World of Ice and Fire" which is the project that has a sticky pinned to the top of the General page about. From what I understand, this book is supposed to go into more depth about history and that sort of thing. It's separate from this app, even though they have the same name.

I don't use the wiki, really, tbh. The difference between the app and the wiki is that Martin actually gave new info for this and it's approved by him, whereas the wiki is produced through our-- the posters-- knowledge. I've seen too much incorrect or speculative info appear in the wiki to trust it for certain things, but given the fact the app is a project Martin actually worked, I'd say this is more trustworthy.

[Lykos]

We'll find out in about twenty years.

It took me sooo long to get the joke, I think I´m turning into Doran. Never been so slow. :blushing:

[PatrickStormborn]

To whomever was asking about how Mirri could exact revenge by killing Rhaego without knowing that Dany would enter the tent: I think the spell forced Dany's labour contractions, and with Mirri's knowledge of the Dothraki culture she probably anticipated that the midwives would refuse to help her.

Honestly I'm not sure the vision of Jon Snow is all that supportive of him being AA. The skulls around him makes it seems as if R'hllor was just trying to warn her about the plot against him

Yes. She never asks to see Azor Ahai -- she asks to see R'hllor's instrument:

Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

Jon appears instead, showing his importance and linking him once again to being "king" (he's the only king at the Wall if Robb's will legitimised him, which is probably one of the reasons he shows up). It certainly highlights Jon's importance, but it doesn't really provide any evidence for Jon being AA.

Honestly, I think some readers are so desperate for Jon to be Azor Ahai that they cling to this rather weak piece of evidence. I've always liked the theory floating around that Bloodraven's close proximity to Melisandre is sort of affecting her visions; perhaps she's seeing Bloodraven's/the Old Gods' king and instrument instead of R'hllor's?

On the Red Wedding, it is confirmed that Tywin, Roose and Walder have been plotting the betrayal of the Starks, with Sybell Spicer involved as well. I wanted to point this out because "Robb was an idiot" is sometimes argued on here, and I think this shows us that Robb was going to go down that way anyway. Unbeknownst to Jeyne, Sybell was tasked with getting Robb to sleep with Jeyne for the purpose of giving Walder Frey cause to betray him at a wedding.

Doesn't this simply mean that Walder Frey began plotting with Tywin AFTER Robb had married Jeyne? In which case Robb was still an idiot for breaking his pact, because he would simply have had to deal with Roose Bolton who could not have opposed him without another ally.

So, with the news that Roose only switched sides when Jaime arrived at Harrenal, here's what seems to have happened:

• Tywin begins plotting with Sybell to break Robb's marriage pact with Walder Frey
  
• Robb marries Jeyne Westerling
  
• Tywin begins plotting with Walder Frey
  
• Roose begins plotting with Tywin
  

I always thought that Roose and Tywin had been plotting long before Tywin and Walder. Hmm.

Oh- one more thing on Rhaegar and Aemon

I think a number of us had assumed this already, but here it is confirmed. "One day Rhaegar read a book of a promised prince who would fight against a great evil and became convinced that he was that prince."

This is one of my pet theories related to this that's now confirmed too: "He corresponded with Maester Aemon on the Wall, who discussed the prophesy with him."

So the book that turned Rhaegar from bookish to knightish was in fact a prophesy about a Promised Prince. And Aemon and he discussed it over raven mail. Hmm.....I think Aemon knows who Jon is. Before he leaves, Aemon just happens to mark a section of the book the Jade Compendium that speaks of AA for Jon read. Just interesting to think about what Aemon was thinking here. Aemon reveals later that he thinks this PtwP figure is Dany, but I wonder what provoked him to show Jon the same prophesy he discussed with Jon's father.

I definitely don't think Aemon knew about Jon's parentage.

And I don't think he believed Jon to be AA either. I simply think he marked the passage to show that Stannis is not AA. It's very important for Jon to know that Stannis' Lightbringer is not real because, as Aemon says, a fake AA will simply cast the world into further darkness.

I also find the Dorne chapters really boring. I was hoping you might have some theories that would give me a reason to care.

I'd kinda curious about this "altruistic endgame". I usually skim Dorne related threads but I rarely care enough to contribute. I'd always thought Doran was merely about revenge.

Agreed. I think the Water Gardens simply show that Doran doesn't want to go to war unless he can win, which is why he tries to side with Dany and her dragons.