NFL 2012 Week 14/15 The Unfrozen Tundra

[Greywolf2375]

But, he has lost a step - er, a few m/s of velocity. He doesn't throw it as hard as he used to, and he's not throwing it well deep. The amazing thing is that it just doesn't matter - his placement is better than it ever was, and his decision making is better than it ever was. His body doesn't do what it used to, and he's managed to compensate for it. More than compensate for it.

I habitually root against Brady, Belichick, and the Pats, but I have to admire them as well. Given the cap constraints, this easily goes down as the greatest dynasty ever in my opinion.

They're the Lakers of the 80s as a Celtics fan - you have to hate them, you do hate them, but you have to admire them for what they are able to do day in, day out, year in, year out. There have been some interesting comments about the Patriots with games like last night - how they are used to such big games and that this is old hat for them. While that is true for some key people - Brady, Hoodie, a few others - most of the players don't have the huge pool of experience in big games to use.

As a 49ers fan, I was hoping to see the two grind on each other a little bit - no injuries, but just a tough, hard hitting game. Well, one team did get ground down.

If there was one thing to take away, the Pats offense did flutter some at the end of the 1st half and beginning of the 2nd. One of the many things that scares me is that it seems like the grass at Foxboro is starting to take on the qualities of the parquet in the Garden. One of the advantages the C's had in the old Garden was knowing the dead spots, knowing where the floor was warped, getting those bounces because they knew where the ball would go to. Seeing that fumble recovery bounce just right sent some shivers down my spine that the ghosts of Patriots past will have even more to say when Kaep and Co. show up.

[Rockroi]

But, he has lost a step - er, a few m/s of velocity. He doesn't throw it as hard as he used to, and he's not throwing it well deep.

What the hell are you talking about? The Lloyd TD? The Stallworth one? The only way Stallworth could have done better would have been if Brady walked down and placed the ball in his hand. And he has not seen Stallworth on the field in 5 years...

The reason the Pats don't throw deep is because 1) they don't have a deep-threat WR; and 2) Gronk is hurt (he is basically the Pats' deep threat). Brady has lost virtually nothing on the ball. He is throwing just as hard (in some cases, too hard). He is not throwing the ball like 2007 because, well, they don't have Randy Moss to throw to.

The amazing thing is that it just doesn't matter - his placement is better than it ever was, and his decision making is better than it ever was. His body doesn't do what it used to, and he's managed to compensate for it. More than compensate for it.

This I agree with. I think that Brady's ability to work with a wide variety of tools in almost every situation is amazing. Randy Moss is not Deon Branch who is not Troy Brown who is not Rob Gronkowski who is not Kevin Faulk who is not Wes Welker who is not Rob Hernandez who is not David Patten who is not Reche Caldwell... okay that last one I just threw in because I like pain (though... he had his best season as a pro with the Pats.... and he was fucking terrible). He's a freak. An uncomfortably good-looking freak.

And he may have won the MVP last night.

[Mexal]

And he may have won the MVP last night.

There are some good stories out there but anyone who doesn't vote for Brady for MVP is a fucking idiot. He has been the most dominate player in the league this year and it's not even close.

Comeback Player of the Year should be split with Manning and AP. They're both equally deserving.

[DanteGabriel]

If Brady has a good night against San Francisco (far from a given) then he should seal the MVP. Manning and Peterson are his only competition, and Manning lost to the Pats and Texans, and Peterson is, well, a running back. Though if Peterson somehow manages to get to 2000 yards or Dickerson's single-season record... that could tip it to him, especially because no one takes his QB seriously and they all just focus on stopping him. In the last few games Peterson has rushed for more yards than Christian Ponder has thrown for. Teams may well start loading all eleven guys in the box to stop him.

Speaking of long-standing records, I like Megatron and all, but I do not want him to break Jerry Rice's single-season receiving yards record. I never thought I'd see any of Jerry Rice's records challenged, but the pass-wacky state of the NFL is disrupting all sorts of conventional wisdom.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

JJ Watt's 5 quarterback hit, multiple tackles for no or minimal gain, 1 forced fumble, night effectively ended his MVP campaign.

[Mexal]

JJ Watt's 5 quarterback hit, multiple tackles for no or minimal gain, 1 forced fumble, night effectively ended his MVP campaign.

Huh?

[Fez]

Goddamn do I hate the Patriots. Respect, but hate; so much hate.

That is all.

[Rockroi]

There are some good stories out there but anyone who doesn't vote for Brady for MVP is a fucking idiot.

God, it was amazing the way I was able to hack into Mexal's account and make him say that.

In all seriousness, I think a really good case for MVP could be made for AP based upon the lack of offensive talent on the Vikings especially since Harvin went out. The Vikings have nothing else on offense and while I like Christian Ponder, he's not the guy (at least not yet). And yet, somehow, the Vikings are in the Wildcard discussion because of AP- he has 7 (and counting) straight games of 100+ yards, and he is putting up a ludicrous 6 yards a carry. The guy is a monster....

.... but those 7 straight games? Vikings are 3-4 in those games... so just how "valuable" is he?

As for Manning, he is the feel-good story of the season, coming off a whole year with an injury and coming in and just picking up where he left off... BUT... he's put up 10 INTs (v. Brady's 4 and they have 30-29 TD respectively) and his three biggest games this season - against the Pats, the Texans and the Falcons - 0 for 3. I mena, yeah, you can rack up the big numbers against the Raiders, Chargers and Chiefs, but he is 1-3 against playoff teams (assuming that EITHER Cinci OR the Steelers make the playoffs) while Brady is 3-2.

Obviously, if Brady lays an egg against the 49'ers he falls back into the pack, but otherwise? What more do you need to do?

[DanteGabriel]

They're the Lakers of the 80s as a Celtics fan - you have to hate them, you do hate them, but you have to admire them for what they are able to do day in, day out, year in, year out.

Not to get off-topic, but I hated the Lakers in the 80s (yes I was a Celtics fan growing up in LA in the 80s...), I didn't admire them, and I hate them still. I'd almost rather see the Lakers get humiliated than watch the Celtics win a championship. I am enjoying the fuck out of their current struggles, after yet again putting together another all-superstar roster.

Back to football -- can I also say how ridiculous it is that these sad, pathetic Jets are still in a position to slide into the playoffs? Mex, I blame your Bengals for this shameful crap. And I'd blame Jacksonville, if they had any fans anywhere for me to heckle. Fez, I respect you -- but your team, as currently constituted, is a wart on the ass of the league.

[Mexal]

Back to football -- can I also say how ridiculous it is that these sad, pathetic Jets are still in a position to slide into the playoffs? Mex, I blame your Bengals for this shameful crap. And I'd blame Jacksonville, if they had any fans anywhere for me to heckle.

We take full responsibility.

[Fez]

We take full responsibility.

Well if you could make sure that you beat the Steelers but lose your other two games, that'd be great.

Fez, I respect you -- but your team, as currently constituted, is a wart on the ass of the league.

What can I say? The Sanchize knows how to step up big at the very last possible moment.

[Mexal]

Well if you could make sure that you beat the Steelers but lose your other two games, that'd be great.

Even if we did that, the Jets will lose a game down the stretch. They aren't good enough to win the last 3.

[DanteGabriel]

What can I say? The Sanchize knows how to step up big at the very last possible moment.

It's true, Sanchez's rat-like survival cunning is the most frustrating thing about him.

Even if we did that, the Jets will lose a game down the stretch. They aren't good enough to win the last 3.

Many have underestimated the aforementioned rat-like cunning of the Jets when they get to 7 losses on a season.

The Jets play at Tennessee, home against San Diego, at Buffalo -- would you lay money on any of those teams to beat the Jets?

[Kalbear]

I think that Denver got more screwed by replacement refs than anyone. I also suspect strongly that if Denver played Houston, Atlanta or NE again you'd see a very different outcome now.

As to MVP - it's tough. Brady has games like this, but then he has games like Seattle or Arizona. I mean...Arizona? But that offense is great to watch. It's exciting seeing these no huddle and hurry up concepts get executed in the nfl.

[Fez]

Even if we did that, the Jets will lose a game down the stretch. They aren't good enough to win the last 3.

True. But if you did that and the Jets went 2-1 (and the Steelers lose out, they're the real problem for the Jets due to beating them earlier this year), both would finish 8-8, tied for the 6th seed. And again, they didn't play each other, they have the same conference record, and actually they do have 4 common opponents. I was wrong about that before. The Jaguars, Dolphins, Steelers, and Chargers. The Bengals are 2-2 with a game against the Steelers left; the Jets are also 2-2 with a game against the Chargers left. If they both finish 3-2, it'd go down to strength of victory. Do you really want to rely on the Browns, Redskins, Giants, Chiefs, and Raiders to all do well down the stretch while the Bills, Colts, Rams, Cards, and either Titans or Chargers don't? Sounds like a crapshoot to me.

If the Jets and Bengals finished tied on the season, don't be surprised if the Jets have the edge. The problem of course is the Steelers, which is why the Bengals (and Browns and Dallas) need to win (or at least 1 of them, if the Jets can go 3-0).

And speaking of, the Jets suck. But the Titans, Chargers, and Bills suck harder. And the Chargers game is at home.

This is happening, the Jets are going to sneak into the playoffs at 9-7 at the expense of the Bengals, just like 2009. I can feel it (unfortunately if Sanchez can point to the fact that he made the playoffs in 3 of his 4 seasons- and the AFC Championship game in at least 2 of those- he's probably going to get another contract extension from Tannebaum; so it might not be worth it).

[MercenaryChef]

so this week we have tickets to ravens vs. broncos. look towards the endzone. should you see two drunkards holding up a canadian flag it is likely us.

i know my pal mack has got to be thrilled that cam cameron has finally been shown the door. he should have been fired a season ago.

peyton again looks like one of the best ever. the ravens once more look listless on offense. ray lewis returns. my fingers are crossed we see a home win.

i caught the second half of the skins/ravens game in a bar filled with skins fans. the place went dead silent when rg3 took that hit that put him out of the game. one old man remarked that 'shanahan is such a fuckface he would wheel the kid out there on a stretcher to play.'

[Rockroi]

I think that Denver got more screwed by replacement refs than anyone.

Did Green Bay get kicked out of the NFL when I wasn't looking?

I also suspect strongly that if Denver played Houston, Atlanta or NE again you'd see a very different outcome now.

Way to, once again, go out on a limb there, kal. You mean teams that play games more than once at various times during the year have "different outcomes"? Again, kal, way to stick your neck out like that.

[DanteGabriel]

As to MVP - it's tough. Brady has games like this, but then he has games like Seattle or Arizona. I mean...Arizona?

Seattle was a one-point loss. Brady wasn't awful, but he made some bad mistakes. And I knew he, and the rest of the team, would struggle in Seattle. One of the few real home-field advantages left in the NFL.

The Arizona loss was week 2, which is a lifetime away. The Cardinals started 4-0 and looked like they had a legit defense. You strongly suspect if Denver played NE again the outcome would be different -- do you suppose the outcome would be different if Arizona played the Pats again?

[Rockroi]

Also don't forget that in both Seattle and Arizona Brady had over 300 yards passing and was the ONLY thing working for the Pats against Seattle (and that both losses occurred during the "replacement" refs so, I guess according to some, those can be discarded) . Also, against Arizona, he lost Hernandez on the second drive. Since then he has had to go into games without Gronkowski, Branch, Hernandez again, and Edelman. I think he has done well with what he has had to work with, huh?

I mean, Manning may still win because the writers like Manning's story; what's not to like? But when you need your Most Valuable Player to be at his best, look at Manning v. Houston, Atlanta and New England and then look at Brady against Denver, Houston and Indy. Not much of a discussion.

[Kalbear]

DG - probably. They also had kolb, which apparently was a ridiculous upgrade over Skelton. Depends a lot on whether Gronk plays.

Rock- I misspoke. As always your charity is appreciated; I can only hope to aspire to your level of copying verbatim illogical bill Simmons and victor Davis Hansen articles in the future. I'll be more precise, since you don't get it easily: if the broncos play the texans, pats or falcons now instead of at the start of the season, with the regular refs instead of the replacements, I suspect that the broncos win. Part of it is that manning hasn't quite gelled yet with his team, but part of it was simply that cornerbacks were getting away with muggings.

As to the Seattle game, I don't think that gb got amazingly screwed. There were a lot of atrocious calls and no calls in that game against both teams. There's a very bad reason that gb got 8 sacks in the first half and 0 in the second - gb was explicitly holding on every play. Also, I think it's not that implausible to think that Seattle beats gb straight up. Seattle has demonstrated that while that last play was an egregious fluke them winning is not.