Jaime predictions for WOW

[Tyryan Lannister]

Jamie survives the immediate aftermath of his reunion with Brienne, whatever that may be. GRRM may have proven himself willing to kill major characters, but it's always as a logical conclusion to the narrative arc of the character.

AGOT: the writing was on the wall for Robert and Viserys from their very first scenes. Ned's function was to act as a stock fantasy hero - albeit one better-conceived than most - to draw the reader into a bewilderingly complex world, and after that had been achieved he was surplus to requirements. Taking a step back, his fate was obvious given he was a man who lived and breathed medieval-esque discourses of chivalry and honour who found himself in an environment with people who refused to be constrained by those rules.

ACOK: one of Renly or Stannis had to go, and after the introduction given to Stannis (and the constant name-dropping in the first book), Renly was the clear choice (although IMO he was a much more interesting and complex character and the series would have been better off as a whole if he'd come of age smashing his brother's army agains the walls of Storm's End).

ASOS: There was no sense that Robb's arc had further to go once it became clear that ASOIF wouldn't be about a fight to the death between Starks and Lannisters, and from just prior to the Blackwater onwards Robb's position steadily deterioates (Edmure turning back the Lannisters at the fords; Twyin thus not taking Robb's bait; Baratheon power being broken in the near-term by the Blackwater, giving Tywin a free hand to focus on the north; Robb snubbing the Freys with his marriage and losing the Karstarks just after; Cat releasing Jamie; and the whole the-Ironborn-have-captured-your-homeland-while-you've-been-off-at-the-war thing). In hindsight therefore the most shocking, unpredictable major character deaths of the series make perfect sense in terms of the internal logic of the plot and the narrative arcs of the characters.

The exception is Jon's 'death' at the end of ADWD. It makes sense in terms of the plot (thanks to the identity crisis of living with both the Wildlings and the Watch, he has the perspective necessary to understand what has to be done re the Wildlings. His 'brothers' don't, and so throughout ADWD the tension builds and it becomes clearer that the shit's about to hit the fan), but it's such a nonsensical end to the character arc that we all assume he's either not dead or will be resurrected.

Which brings me back to Jamie. You can plausibly argue it makes sense in terms of previous plot-threads and the motivations of the characters involved (one zombie-lady in particular) for him to die very soon, but it makes no sense from a character-development perspective given everything he's been through, and it'd be such an anti-climax that there would be none of the sense of dramatic resolution, catharsis, or great tragedy that accompanied prior major character deaths. In other words, Jamie dying at the hands of UnCat in the opening chapters of TWOW is about as likely as Arya's first POV ending with her falling into a Bravosi canal and drowning. It could happen if this story was real life (Attila the Hun apparently died of a nosebleed, after all) but it'd be piss-poor writing.

Beyond his short-term survival, however, anything could happen.

My two cents.

:agree:

[Tyryan Lannister]

Man, I really missed a lot when I read the books. I have only read them once so far and I am seeing more on here than I ever picked up on in the books. I was in such a hurry to get through them that I missed way too much.

Jaime will likely live and end up a member of the NW in the end.

Really should do a reread, you notice so much more... for instance, on my first reread, I noticed how unsurprising the RW actually was... on the first read, I was shocked after that chapter, but during reread you can see some of the groundwork for the RW between Tywin and Roose from the early Arya in Harrenhall chapters after Tywin has arrived

[Tyryan Lannister]

Yes, but if she did see him she would no lo get belie e that.

Anyway you are probably right. I tried to find info on estimated dates for the last Sansa and last Jaime chapters but failed

The only indications that I know of relative to this are Kevan's statement about Jaime having been lost for weeks (and as was pointed out at the beginning of this thread, if UnCat had killed him right away, she likely would have paraded his body around the Riverlands for all to see) and that there was originally supposed to be a Sansa chapter in Dance that instead was moved to the beginning of Winds along with all the Battle chapters... which tells me that it's going to be quite the plot changer. This is just a gut feeling, but I think that the descent from the Eyrie and Jaime waking to find snow at Riverrun occurred at roughly the same time

[The King Of Limbs]

After all the character development that Jaime went through, for him to be hung by Stoneheart within the first half of WOW would be the single most anticlimactic event in the series by far. It would make no sense within the plot. He still has too much to do as a character, even if he isn't the Valonquar (though he might very well be.)

I'm personally thinking he's going to somehow end up fighting against Lem in the hound helmet, and after a brutal fight, taking him down. There has been emphasis on his practice sessions with Payne, and Jaime still has one more fight left in him IMO. Maybe it will be a trial by combat, maybe it will be because he legitimately thinks he's the Hound and has Sansa. Either way, something's going down.

[Novus]

Yea I had some of the same ideas about what might happen to the Golden hand. But my theories do have a few variations. But I think what is definitely going to happen no matter what is that Brienne will take Jaime to Stoneheart. What happens from there is up for grabs, but heres what I think might happen...

1) When they reach Stoneheart, she probably forces the two into a trial by combat where Jaime stands no chance against Brienne but because she cares about him to much she forces Jaime to kill her so he can live and also save Pod as well. Now if that happens and Stoneheart still tries to have Jaime killed I think some of the members of the BWB like Thoros or Gendry might try to save him out of justice.

2) What I would really like to see happen is that instead of killing Jaime, Stoneheart realizes he's more valueable alive and attempts to use him. Now I think Stoneheart attempts to use Jaime to rescue Edmure's wife Ros from the Twins on the surface but what she really wants is just a way to get her BWB inside the walls so they can massacre the Freys and get revenge for Robb. (Personal note: what happened to Robb was just wrong in so many ways. The Freys have got to go down at some point, at least I hope so)

[Little and Less]

Jamie and Jon are two character arcs that are in no way complete. In fact, my gut tells me that these two will meet at some point maybe through Tyrion (who again, gut feeling, will be the one who draws everyone together since he seems to have had the most contact with almost all of the POVs left.)

So that being said, Jaime will survive Stoneheart. I think we are all forgetting that Brienne had pledged her allegiance to Catelyn Stark NOT Lady Stoneheart. Jaime will see through Brienne's need for him to come with her and remind her that she also pledged herself to Jaime as well when he sent her to find Sansa Stark. Brienne will reveal to Jaime that she needs to save Pod and Hyle Hunt even if it means her death.

I like the thought of Thoros/Lem fighting Jaime instead of Brienne (because LS may think that Brienne's allegiance to her may not be strong/diminished due to Jaime), and Jaime winning his trial by battle. I could see a double cross happening here with Lady Stoneheart not allowing Jaime to leave, even after his win by battle, and still ordering his death by hanging. (This move will be against all that the brotherhood stands for.) LS will be blinded by rage and revenge and the BWB will finally have had enough. We might even get an impassioned speech from none other than Gendry who joined the BWB to help the small folk and to provide justice. He of course will win some of the remaining Brotherhood to his side (he is like his father after all, who had a way of turning enemies to friends). This and that fact that Gendry looks like a young Robert/Renly will make Jaime realize who Gendry is.

Jaime will, of course, find out about the massacre about to happen at Daven's wedding and will attempt to stop it - but will arrive too late. So long Daven and Gemma.

My two cents.

Oh and on the valonquar issue - Jaime bringing along Gendry/Brienne to KL has valonquar senario written all over it. Who knows how Cersei will react if she ever saw Gendry (Robert's ghost) and to Jaime for bringing him.

[Chrodarcniss]

I think Stoneheart lost so much of herself from being dead for so long, that she now quite literally burns only for revenge. The only one I can think of that she could want to get her hands on even more than Jaime is Walder Frey.

[The Bastard of Walton]

I really hope Jaime becomes leader of the Brotherhood without Banners. His new attitude suits there way of life, then when he hears of the true kings exsistance, he will rally to Jon Snow.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

Jaime is marked for death. It is known.

But he's not done yet as his redemptive arc is incomplete. I imagine that when it finally comes full circle it will be a Snape-esque redemptive arc and he will be remembered for being a hero in his death (for whatever reason). How ironic would that be? Hated in life but revered in death.

I will say I have no idea how Jaime dies.

I'm pretty sure he's Cersei's volonquer, so that means he has to make it back to King's Landing or Casterly Rock at some point.

It is certainly being set up to make it look like Lady Stoneheart is going to kill him though, which is why I don't think that it will happen in the end.

[Nick_Scryer]

Brienne will bring him back to the cave and he'll demand a trial by combat. Brienne will be his champion and Lem(The Hound III) will be Lady Stonehearts.

Brienne will win, LS will not be pleased and try to have him killed anyway. The brotherhood will turn on Lady Stoneheart and subdue but not kill her, and Jaime will take control of the brotherhood. Brienne will take the Hound's helm and everyone will make their way to the Eyrie when Sansa Stark is revealed to be their.

Jaime and Brienne will get to the Eyrie and defend Sansa from Robert Strong but Brienne will fall in battle. Lady Stoneheart will see that they were not lying and give her life for Brienne's. The Lords of the Vale will declare for Sansa and go with the Brotherhood to KL where RS has taken Sansa. They'll stop by the Quiet Isle on the way and pick up a certain gravedigger.

When they get to the capital, Cersei will be on her final straw and starts burning the city down with wildfire. Jaime and Sandor will run into the burning keep, Sandor will save Sansa by jumping out the window but will die when he takes the brunt of the fall to save her life. Jaime will strangle Cersei but will die with her.

Brienne will declare her loyalty to Sansa. The End.

It is known.

[mystikherb]

Seeing Jaime's hand, Stoneheart makes Jaime fight a Trial by Combat versus Brienne. Brienne dominates. However, she loves Jaime and lets him unwillingly kill her. Stoneheart goes to hang him anyways, when someone else interrupts.

I really like this idea. A lot. I'm definitely way more of a fan of Jaime's character than Brienne's, and I think this would develop his character a lot.

[mystikherb]

I like #3, there is definitely a rift forming in the BWB now that Stoneheart is in charge, so I could see it happening. Someone has to die in this confrontation, if they don't it will be incredibly anti-climactic. I would be shocked if GRRM killed off Jaime though, for the same reason Jon can't be perma dead either, they still have too much left to do.

Brienne on the other hand, excluding her vow to kill Stannis (not happening), doesn't have any obvious role left in this story anymore. She started Jaime down his path to redemption, so it would make sense that her death, especially if it occurs to save Jaime, would be what compels him to complete his redemption arc.

Like I could see him ignoring every thing happening in KL with Cersei, instead making it his mission to find and rescue Sansa because that is what Brienne would have wanted him to do. Of course I see that ending with Sansa rescuing both of them, an subversion of the Knight rescues maiden trope, which is right up GRRM's alley.

I don't see Jaime surviving the series; that being said, I definitely see his story continuing on after his confrontation with the BWB.

[The Others Take Ya]

He'll escape. He'll sense Brienne's story is nonsense long before they get to Cat and them. The legend that is Jaime the Just won't die so easily.

I don't think he'll escape because that leave Brienne and Pod in trouble but I do agree that he will figure out that Brienne's story is BS really quick. She's too honest to be a good liar.

Here's my elaborate crackpot hope for how I hope the story plays out:

I don't know when it'll come into play, but Cat swore in turn back to Brienne that she would have her do no service that would cause her dishonor. If Jamie and Brienne manage to hash this out when he figures out the truth, then he can probably convince her that he's in no honorable shape to do a trial by combat and deserves one last effort to try and find Sansa and Arya because Brienne hasn't gone to the Vale. The Vale doesn't have any Lannister forces, so it would make sense that if they had gone there that Kevan would have had no sign of Jamie after they disappeared. Plus Jamie very likely knows that Littlefinger had a thing for Catelyn and bragged about taking her maidenhead and checking on him would be prudent.

Once they get there, we know winter has arrived, so I think that will make the Hill Tribes desperate for shelter and provisions and start to attack. Since they've got a few battles under their belt along with good weapons there's a chance they'll take it. I also don't think that Royce in the vale will be content to just let SweetRobin have just the same maester looking after him and will look for a second source of medical care. Since the Quiet Isle is close, and we know that the Elder Brother is known for his healing hands, I think there is a possibility he may show up as well, along with a big gravedigging acolyte to accompany him for his safety on the dangerous trip to the Vale.

All the above means we have the possibility of a merging storylines between Jamie, Brienne, Sansa, Littlefinger, the gravedigger, elder brother and the Hill tribes.

I think Jamie will use his brother's Hill tribes to his advantage by just informing them that this happens to the be the halfman's wife and could you please feed Littlefinger's littlefinger to the goats?

Goats finally get a snack, Sansa won't let innocent Pod die and want to go, the Elder brother and Royce can be trusted to take care of Sweetrobin, Jamie has the authority to execute Littlefinger and you have Sansa able to leave under the watchful eye of Brienne and Jamie to get to her mother while Brienne and Jamie are under the watchful eye of the gravedigger on the trip down, because he's pretty much the only one she happens to trust at this point.

HalfMAN! HalfMAN! HalfMAN!

[Sun]

Once Lady Stoneheart comes face to face with Jaime her arc will effectively have reached its conclusion. She will not survive the encounter.

If anyone ends up leading the BWB, it will be Brienne not Jaime.

I really have no idea how Jaime's arc will unfold. The only thing I can say is that chances are very good he survives TWOW.

[six]

The trial by combat theory that many throw around makes zero sense. Why would Stoneheart allow it for Jaime, of all people? Also, everyone seem to assume Brienne is leading Jaime to Stoneheart, but is she? Isn't she just supposed to kill him, nevermind where?

[jentario]

That would be awful!

I would bet so much money on it, though :)

After she goes to hang Jaime anyway she will likely be stopped by one of her men that states the red god wants Jaime alive. We may get an internal power struggle but I doubt Stoneheart will die there- she still has a role to play (and I believe Arya will kill her eventually).

[Nahkuri]

The trial by combat theory that many throw around makes zero sense. Why would Stoneheart allow it for Jaime, of all people? Also, everyone seem to assume Brienne is leading Jaime to Stoneheart, but is she? Isn't she just supposed to kill him, nevermind where?

There's a point here. LS probably still thinks Jaime is the god of pointy things he was before the Bloody Mummers.

I'm pretty sure Brienne will bring Jaime to LS, however. She knows how much of a good guy Jaime is despite all that kingslaying, Bran tossing and sisterfucking. Even though LS just wants Jaime dead and brienne said 'sword', I don't think Brienne will just backstab him the first change she gets.

[Jaqen H'gcarl]

Seeing Jaime's hand, Stoneheart makes Jaime fight a Trial by Combat versus Brienne. Brienne dominates. However, she loves Jaime and lets him unwillingly kill her. Stoneheart goes to hang him anyways, when someone else interrupts.

This :))

I don't think Martin is that brutal though, I don't think this will happen, but it would be hard-core :)

[six]

There's a point here. LS probably still thinks Jaime is the god of pointy things he was before the Bloody Mummers.

I'm pretty sure Brienne will bring Jaime to LS, however. She knows how much of a good guy Jaime is despite all that kingslaying, Bran tossing and sisterfucking. Even though LS just wants Jaime dead and brienne said 'sword', I don't think Brienne will just backstab him the first change she gets.

But LS doesn't allow trial by combat anymore, so why would she do it for Jaime? As for Brienne bringing him to LS it's possible, but the core of her storyline is that at this point she's facing the same type of conundrum on oathkeeping (is that a word? It should be) that Jaime has been going on about. I think it would be much more compelling to have Brienne actually trying to kill Jaime and being unable to do it because she can't go through with it. Then they can both face LS as a united front, and whatever happens, happens (I hope they don't die). The whole trial thing doesn't make sense, logically speaking. Not for Jaime, no way LS would allow him the possibility to win and get away; she wants him dead.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

What if Lady Stoneheart cuts off Jaime's other hand too ?