Heresy 36

[Little Wing]

Hah, it's Kim Novak with Pyewacket... I have a similar photo but my cat wasn't as co-operative...

Oh, and:

Chest hair. Don't pull!

Ew. <_<

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

:crying:

[Little Wing]

Oh, come now - giants are among my favourite - they're vegetarians, like me! :thumbsup:

Anyway, chat over. On to Heresy - is Ramsay a Mordred of sorts? (Crackpot inspired by Bran Vras's amazing Washerwoman thread)

[Melifeather]

No and no. Jojen himself says he's not a greenseer, and it's really confusing to try to figure out what greensight is supposed to be, but either it doesn't mean greenseer or whatever Jojen's ability is, the term greensight is mistakenly used to describe it.

"My brother has the greensight," said Meera. "He dreams things that haven't happened, but sometimes they do."

"Meera says her brother has the greensight."

Maester Luwin scratched at the side of his nose with his writing quill. "Does she now?"

He nodded. "You told me that the children of the forest had the greensight. I remember."

"Some claimed to have that power. Their wise men were called greenseers."

"Was it magic?"

"Call it that for want of a better word, if you must. At heart it was only a different sort of knowledge"

"What was it?"

Luwin set down his quill. "No one truly knows, Bran. The children are gone from the world, and their wisdom with them. It had to do with the faces in the trees, we think. The First Men believed that the greenseers could see through the eyes of the weirwoods. That was why they cut down the trees whenever they warred upon the children. Supposedly the greenseers also had power over the beasts of the wood and the birds in the trees. Even fish. Does the Reed boy claim such powers?"

"No. I don't think. But he has dreams that come true sometimes, Meera says."

"All of us have dreams that come true sometimes. You dreamed of your lord father in the crypts before we knew he was dead, remember?"

"Rickon did too. We dreamed the same dream."

"Call it greensight, if you wish...but remember as well all those tens of thousands of dreams that you and Rickon have dreamed that did not come true....(further down page) "No, my prince. Jojen Reed may have had a dream or two that he believes came true, but he does not have the greensight. No living man has that power."

Bran said as much to Meera Reed when she came to him....".....The crow lied when he said I could fly, and your brother lied too."

"Or perhaps your maester is wrong."

I do not think Maester Luwin was differentiating between greensight and greenseers. They are one and the same.

[Melifeather]

And also congratulations on the promotion :)

Thank you! It did come with some extra money, but I miss being able to flip over to the threads and throw my two cents in.

But, warging is using the third eye. Not just enhanced, you simply can't do it without. Also, greenseer training seems to proceed through more and more advanced stages of skinchanging.

This is the passage I hoped to find when searching for 'third eye'

So apparently, skinchanging is somehow extending your soul through the third eye?

So my guess is that once your third eye is open (let's call that greensight), it's a two-way gate to...the Old Gods? spiritual realm? dunno...so you can be reached through it, via green dreams, but in order to actively use it, you have to be able to reach out, which means you can skinchange. And greenseeing would be the ultimate method to reach out, possibly without the need for an actual creature to skinchange into?

The terminology is really stupid, though. Greenshight != the ability to be a greenseer.

I would say a greenseer can do many things like skinchanging and greensight...and that greensight is just the ability to see the future in dreams.

[Melifeather]

Thanks for the quotes, nanother :cheers: It would be great to have a heretic Bran re-read... or Bran and Jon...

Are you planning this? I'd like to participate.

[Toccs]

I do not think Maester Luwin was differentiating between greensight and greenseers. They are one and the same.

Maester Luwin of course being an authority on magic and with a track record of being right about these sort of things. ;)

[blackwing]

Greenseers can access the weirwood-net. Jojen can't. It's made quite clear that he only has green dreams and lacks other abilities. How could BR be the last greenseer if Jojen also was one? Or even more important, why would Bran be of such significance if Jojen also could do the job and had his skills already further developed -> obv. Jojen lacks abilities Bran has which are required to become a greenseer.

[nanother]

So, did the idea of a re-read scare away everyone? So far it's just the 3 of us with Little Wing and Feather Crystal :(

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Black Crow is the lifeblood of this place. I think he's on vacation though, so it may be slow for a bit.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

So, did the idea of a re-read scare away everyone? So far it's just the 3 of us with Little Wing and Feather Crystal :(

I'll probably participate, but not for posting sections, sorry.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

It's been bugging me for a while but we know followers of R'holler have prophetic visions, and so do some first men families. No Andal's families do that we've seen. And then why , of all people do Targaryens? We've seen Targaryens predict things such as the doom of Valyria and certain events in Mystery Knight. So why, Targaryens?

[Melifeather]

Greenseers can access the weirwood-net. Jojen can't. It's made quite clear that he only has green dreams and lacks other abilities. How could BR be the last greenseer if Jojen also was one? Or even more important, why would Bran be of such significance if Jojen also could do the job and had his skills already further developed -> obv. Jojen lacks abilities Bran has which are required to become a greenseer.

Bran had to eat weirwood paste before he could slip his skin and see through the weirnet. Does this mean he wasn't a greenseer before eating the paste?

[Little Wing]

It's been bugging me for a while but we know followers of R'holler have prophetic visions, and so do some first men families. No Andal's families do that we've seen. And then why , of all people do Targaryens? We've seen Targaryens predict things such as the doom of Valyria and certain events in Mystery Knight. So why, Targaryens?

Um... the 3EC chose to work through them as well because it saw something happen in the future that needs their involvement? Just crackin' me pots...

Anyway, as to the re-read, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't need to be formal and have a host poster/s or something - we can decide when a chapter is to be read, or have two chapters weekly (or whatever) and then just post impressions and discuss until the topic is no longer interesting/dies down, and continue on to the next chapter the same way... just a friendly suggestion, of course :) redriver's Mormont raven re-read thread is pretty organic like that, and it works...

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Bran had to eat weirwood paste before he could slip his skin and see through the weirnet. Does this mean he wasn't a greenseer before eating the paste?

That's what I took it to mean. We still don't know that he is a greenseer(yet), only that he is in training. I liken it to a a smith vs Smith apprentice. Training does not make you a master.

[blackwing]

Bran had to eat weirwood paste before he could slip his skin and see through the weirnet. Does this mean he wasn't a greenseer before eating the paste?

Sure. I think Bran still has a way to go until he can be considered a greenseer. So far he only seems to be the most promising, if not in fact the only fit aspirant for the job.

[Melifeather]

Um... the 3EC chose to work through them as well because it saw something happen in the future that needs their involvement? Just crackin' me pots...

Anyway, as to the re-read, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't need to be formal and have a host poster/s or something - we can decide when a chapter is to be read, or have two chapters weekly (or whatever) and then just post impressions and discuss until the topic is no longer interesting/dies down, and continue on to the next chapter the same way... just a friendly suggestion, of course :) redriver's Mormont raven re-read thread is pretty organic like that, and it works...

Let me know where we're starting and when.

[Esa1996]

Um... the 3EC chose to work through them as well because it saw something happen in the future that needs their involvement? Just crackin' me pots...

During the stuff of D&E Bloodraven was still south wasn't he? Maybe it was the previous Greenseer. I haven't read the Dunk & Egg stuff yet but I have read some back story of them.

Maybe it's a Valyrian thing. They had dragons 'n' stuff so they weren't quite the average Joe.

[Tyryan Lannister]

During the stuff of D&E Bloodraven was still south wasn't he? Maybe it was the previous Greenseer. I haven't read the Dunk & Egg stuff yet but I have read some back story of them.

Maybe it's a Valyrian thing. They had dragons 'n' stuff so they weren't quite the average Joe.

And the tales regarding the Targ was that they had dragon eggs in the crib with them, so there's no telling what type of impact that much magical proximity had on the post-natal development

[Mace Cooterian]

That's what I took it to mean. We still don't know that he is a greenseer(yet), only that he is in training. I liken it to a a smith vs Smith apprentice. Training does not make you a master.

This is really just a hypothetical sling it and watch where it falls question. You know; the mud on the end of the stick thing.

Anyway, if Bran is in training to be...for the lack of a better word....the next to last greenseer; what if Bran decides that this is NOT the place that he wants to be? I mean, if he start slipping skin at the beginning of TWoW and see's Jon turning blue in the ice cells (or wherever he will be layed interim waiting for whatever happens next)...I would think he would be inclined to start heading back to the wall. To do what? I have no idea. Maybe the presence of Wights outside the front door of the cave is going ot make that not happen.

Ignoring the wights for a moment, maybe BR, the children, the 3EC and the blind fish (everyone :cool4: ) tries to prevent Bran from leaving. So Bran goes, I'll show'em, eats more paste...warg's the wights and send them running into the nearest fire (okay, I'm stretching it alittle bit); but you get my point. What if simply, Bran decides to rebel because he see's what is happening to Jon?