What do the FM do with their incomes?

[Vhageraxion]

If the Faceless ones have it in for dragons, wouldn't they have made an attempt on Dany and her dragons by now?

This. If they had any political motives of this sort, they would've made their move by now, especially regarding how well-informed they seem to be ("Tell me three things you didn't know when you left")

I'm wondering if it is possible that they may be more interested in acquiring dragons of their own. Having a death cult start to mass produce dragons would be a pretty scary proposition btw.

Though it sounds cool, having dragons would seriously go against their MO of killing only the person they were ordered to kill. Dragons are weapons of mass destruction, and also not exactly subtle.

[Frey family reunion]

I'm wondering if it is possible that they may be more interested in acquiring dragons of their own. Having a death cult start to mass produce dragons would be a pretty scary proposition btw.

Though it sounds cool, having dragons would seriously go against their MO of killing only the person they were ordered to kill. Dragons are weapons of mass destruction, and also not exactly subtle.

True unless someone named "Westeros" for example.

[Ice Turtle]

I've always thought that Iron Bank was partially founded for the purpose of keeping and investing FM money.

[Darth Visenya]

Their building an offshore drilling rig in the Narrow Sea.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Their building an offshore drilling rig in the Narrow Sea.

And when there's a spill, total PR nightmare.

If the Faceless ones have it in for dragons, wouldn't they have made an attempt on Dany and her dragons by now?

This. If they had any political motives of this sort, they would've made their move by now, especially regarding how well-informed they seem to be ("Tell me three things you didn't know when you left")

And are you certain that the Citadel break-in, presumably to get this book that, by its title, refers to the deaths of dragons (and presumably how to cause/hasten those deaths) isn't part of an attempt on Dany and her dragons? It seems odd to me ask "Why haven't they made a move yet?" when I'm pretty sure they are making a move as we speak. I notice too that the Citadel break-in doesnt occur until after Storm of Swords, which is when Dany does the most foundational long-term damage. It's possible that they were simply waiting to see how the dragons were used and/or how Dany behaved politically. And when it turned out that she was destabilizing an entire region and starting her own dragon-based empire, then they got a move on.

[Lion of Judah]

I like the idea of the FM being one with the Iron Bank, but what they do with their coin is anyones guess.

[boojam]

The Faceless Men aren't about money, they're about a philosophy. That's my main pick-up from Arya's chapters in Braavos. They adhere to a code. So I think asking "What do they get out of it?" as if the goal is money or some tangible benefit is maybe to miss the point a little.

They're also not permitted to kill anyone they know. So if they ARE working with the Iron Bank, and someone wants someone in the Iron Bank dead, there's your loophole. As far as conflict of interest, it seems like the Iron Bank is itself largely apolitical as long as the bill's paid when it's due. And they are not obligated to take contracts. "Kill someone in the Iron Bank for me?" "No." Solved.

Seems to me the FM and IB are an affiliation , of some kind of of weird kind.

(Having a bank in Fantasy is something that I have never seen before!)

Anyway , consider Arya's first 'hit' , that , as far as I remember was not done for money, but on principal? That insurance agent (insurance agent in a Fantasy!) had ethics problems.

So seems the FM 'philosophy' is complex, part principal, part odd ball theology and lord know what else?

How does one arrange a contract with them?

Through the Iron Bank?

Yet even then the FM may have to have some agreement.

So, yeah, I don't think they have any interest in money... they sure live a Spartan lifestyle.

Footnote: Called Faceless 'Men' , yet we have met one female FM so are, and one is in training.

Other female FM elsewhere?

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

The deposit it in the Iron Bank, which then invests in Dornish real estate.

[Vhageraxion]

And are you certain that the Citadel break-in, presumably to get this book that, by its title, refers to the deaths of dragons (and presumably how to cause/hasten those deaths) isn't part of an attempt on Dany and her dragons? It seems odd to me ask "Why haven't they made a move yet?" when I'm pretty sure they are making a move as we speak. I notice too that the Citadel break-in doesnt occur until after Storm of Swords, which is when Dany does the most foundational long-term damage. It's possible that they were simply waiting to see how the dragons were used and/or how Dany behaved politically. And when it turned out that she was destabilizing an entire region and starting her own dragon-based empire, then they got a move on.

Very interesting, I hadn't made the link between Jaqen at the Citadel and the dragon-killing-book Tyrion mentions later on! Really though, they could've known Dany was trouble as soon as she hatched three friggin' dragons. Do you think they might have had some use for her if she hadn't become an opportunistic human-rights activist (sorry if my opinion shines through here) or was she just not a threat? It seems pretty stupid to me to leave the (supposedly) last Targaryen alive, even if she isn't a danger at the moment.

I am also wondering, how would Dany's dragons react if she were to be killed? Go berserk? Find another Mother? Perhaps even kill themselves? If this isn't known, then the FM might be holding off on killing her because the first scenario kind of destroys their no-collaterals-rule.

[ARYa_Nym]

I dont have my books but didnt Arya work in all these different rooms where they kept their wealth, like one room had clothes, another jewels? Wasnt one of her jobs counting and sorting coins?

I got the impression a FM could choose anything from these rooms that they may need for a mission.

When she was not working, Arya was free to wander as she would amongst the vaults and storerooms, so long as she did not leave the temple, nor descend to the third cellar.

She found a room full of weapons and armor: ornate helms and curious old breastplates, longswords, daggers,

and dirks, crossbows and tall spears with leaf-shaped heads. Another vault was crammed with clothing, thick furs

and splendid silks in half a hundred colors, next to piles of foul-smelling rags and threadbare roughspuns.

There must be treasure chambers too, Arya decided. She pictured stacks of golden plates, bags of silver coins, sapphires blue as the sea, ropes of fat green pearls.

[Techelles]

Lots of people seem to believe that they give the money to the Iron Bank. This raises the following question, though: What do the FM get out of such a deal? Do they just have nothing else to do with the money? I was always under the impression that the Faceless Men tried to be as neutral as possible so as to be approachable by anyone. So what if they're ordered to kill the director of the Iron Bank? Wouldn't giving the money to anyone at all create a conflict of interest?

They don't just give it to the Iron Bank, they are the Iron Bank. The Iron Bank is a different face they use when they need to.

Also, no ones orders the FM to do anything; people try and hire them if they can.

I agree, Nebmai. Although there isn't really any evidence for it yet, it makes the most sense to me that the Iron Bank and the FM are two branches of the same organization. It answers the question, at least, of what the FM do with their money.

The Bank represents the organization's diplomatic face, while the FM are a tool with which they support their interests when diplomacy fails or is simply not appropriate (clandestine intelligence-gathering and deaths that appear accidental).

It has been heavily implied that there are serious consequences to crossing the bank, especially with regard to regimes. Cersei is called a fool for dismissing the Bank's envoy because when rulers have done this in the past, they suddenly found their enemies much more motivated and better-equipped to enforce their own pretensions to power. We know this is true because Stannis was approached by the Bank. A guild of professional assassins would, for obvious reasons, be very useful during power struggles, and the Bank is not shy about enforcing its own contracts. If it will fund wars to remove obstacles, I imagine it wouldn't hesitate to assassinate them either.

Footnote: Called Faceless 'Men' , yet we have met one female FM so are, and one is in training.

Other female FM elsewhere?

Don't know of any others, but I have always wondered if a female FM would be able to wear a male face.

[FittleLinger]

I agree, Nebmai. Although there isn't really any evidence for it yet, it makes the most sense to me that the Iron Bank and the FM are two branches of the same organization. It answers the question, at least, of what the FM do with their money.

The Bank represents the organization's diplomatic face, while the FM are a tool with which they support their interests when diplomacy fails or is simply not appropriate (clandestine intelligence-gathering and deaths that appear accidental).

It has been heavily implied that there are serious consequences to crossing the bank, especially with regard to regimes. Cersei is called a fool for dismissing the Bank's envoy because when rulers have done this in the past, they suddenly found their enemies much more motivated and better-equipped to enforce their own pretensions to power. We know this is true because Stannis was approached by the Bank. A guild of professional assassins would, for obvious reasons, be very useful during power struggles, and the Bank is not shy about enforcing its own contracts. If it will fund wars to remove obstacles, I imagine it wouldn't hesitate to assassinate them either.

Don't know of any others, but I have always wondered if a female FM would be able to wear a male face.

There was someone who suggested an interesting connection a while ago - I don't remember who exactly and I'm sorry for this, but it goes like that. That the Many Faced God is actually money - as the different coins have different faces on them. Combine this with the great price the FM are always said to have, and with the Iron coin Jaqen gives Arya, and then with the Pate and insurance agent killing (via a poisoned coin) and the theory that the FM have a more close connection to the Iron Bank gets some credibility.

I am not convinced, but the connections are interesting nevertheless.

[boojam]

There was someone who suggested an interesting connection a while ago - I don't remember who exactly and I'm sorry for this, but it goes like that. That the Many Faced God is actually money - as the different coins have different faces on them. Combine this with the great price the FM are always said to have, and with the Iron coin Jaqen gives Arya, and then with the Pate and insurance agent killing (via a poisoned coin) and the theory that the FM have a more close connection to the Iron Bank gets some credibility.

I am not convinced, but the connections are interesting nevertheless.

I just read Arya's last chapter in ADWD.

Several things are noticeable.

If you read carefully something happens to Arya's face, but , notice , even tho we think she has it cut off and replaced, she notices that her face has not changed at all, except that others see it changed. So , and GRRM has not explained it yet, the sorcery that Jaqen did, passing his hand over his face does not change your name day face, but to all others it has changed.

A subtle touch.

No where is there the mention of a 'poisoned' coin. She replaced a golden dragon with an iron coin of the House of Black and White, and insurance guy died of apoplexy when he saw it.

The FM command her to give the old man the 'gift' no mention of money is made , nor do 'council' who meet seem interested in money.

All quite odd.

Read the chapter.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

I conclude poisoned coin after reading the chapter.

[Techelles]

There was someone who suggested an interesting connection a while ago - I don't remember who exactly and I'm sorry for this, but it goes like that. That the Many Faced God is actually money - as the different coins have different faces on them. Combine this with the great price the FM are always said to have, and with the Iron coin Jaqen gives Arya, and then with the Pate and insurance agent killing (via a poisoned coin) and the theory that the FM have a more close connection to the Iron Bank gets some credibility.

I am not convinced, but the connections are interesting nevertheless.

Thanks for this; it is indeed a very interesting connection that I had not thought of before. Really I should have, though; in hindsight it seems so obvious. And as you say, I hesitate to call it fact at this point, but it's one of the more intriguing theories (not just regarding the Bank and FM, but in general) that I've come across lately.

[Old-Growth]

It's fairly reasonably indicated that the Faceless Men had some role to play in the Doom. Why they would permit the Targaryens to "get away," as it were, is an interesting thing to think about. I do think though that they're making moves toward learning about dragons and how to kill them (i.e. Jaqen breaking into the Citadel)

The idea that a small band of assassins could, from a great distance, contribute to bringing about a level 10 plus earthquake and subsequent volcanic eruptions, and a 100 foot high tsunani, and a pyroclastic flow sufficient to kill dragons aloft is risible.

I realize that you are not the originator of this absurdity, AM, but that you should grant it an iota of credibility to this, which results only from a complete misreading of something the Kindly Man says to Arya, is disturbing........

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Copious amounts of adult beverages, maybe some wacky weed.

[Harle The Handsome]

Give it to the Iron Bank. It is known.

I think there might be something to this.

In any case, the Faceless Men charge what they do, it's implied, to test the seriousness of the contractee. Their goal doesn't appear to be money for its own sake, in which case it follows that their payments are funneled to a cooperating organization like, sure, the Iron Bank.

My thoughts (and just like everyone elses here) are full of speculation, but it appears to me that the Faceless Men (or House of Black and White if you prefer) and the Iron Bank of Braavos two sides of the same coin.

[Lummel]

Half the wealth of a wealth person makes for a nice income for a job. Half the wealth of the widow who ordered the hit on the insurance is probably somewhat less impressive. As per the example of the waif having to join the faceless men as part of the payment, that 'wealth' is not necessarily only financial either.

[Harle The Handsome]

No where is there the mention of a 'poisoned' coin. She replaced a golden dragon with an iron coin of the House of Black and White, and insurance guy died of apoplexy when he saw it. The FM command her to give the old man the 'gift' no mention of money is made , nor do 'council' who meet seem interested in money. All quite odd. Read the chapter.

So the insurance guy's heart gave out just because he saw the iron coin!?!

The more logical explanation is that the coin she gave him was dipped in the drinking fountain from the HoB&W and Arya took advantage of the fact that the old man bit every coin to make sure they were real to poison him.