Robb or Jon, who's the best leader

[Winter's Prince]

Actually, that's also Robb's fault. Had he told Edmure his plans to pincer Tywin, Edmure would have let the Lannister host cross and would have been ready to attack at Robb's command (send to Riverrun by crow). Robb, however, simply assumed Edmure would keep his forces doing nothing at Riverrun.

Also, we don't really know if Jon united the wildlings and the North. Wildlings had been raiding the northern regions of the North for generations and, except for the Thenns, aren't easy to control. Once the dust around Winterfell settles, the Northern lords might not be so comfortable with Jon's decision. Specially if some wildlings leave the castles at the wall to go south and kidnap women.

I agree, Robb should have told Edmure his plan, never assume. If my castle was being attacked and my liege didn't inform me of his plans I would defend my castle too. And what do you mean Jon did not unite the Wildlings? He may not have official did so, but all in all he has; Jon is a Stark - All the North bows down to Starks. Two, the Wildlings have a great admiration for him as a leader. North follows blood and Wildlings follow strength, put those two together and you got a powerhouse. So if like I said before he rises up, Davos does not find Rickon, then Jon can claim Winterfell. Simple. And like Tywin said "If soldiers lack discipline, the fault lies with their commanders" as long as Jon keeps the Wildlings in line they follow and abide by his every command. Robb made bad and stupid decisions all the time and his bannermen still followed so the Northerners will have to put up with the Wildling presence south of the Wall.

The sad thing is the downfall of both Robb AND Jon is when they are separated. Robb needed Jon's perspective and abilities around during his southern campaign. He could have given Roose Bolton's assignment to Jon, and Roose would never have been in position to send 6,000 northmen loyal to Robb to his death. He could have sent Jon instead of Theon to the Iron Islands to treat with Balon Greyjoy, or Jon could have convinced him to send someone more trustworthy than Theon. At every point in Robb's short lived Kingship, having Jon Snow around would have been a benefit. While both men are Ned's sons in the way they think and act, Jon is more cautious, but less personable, which makes him a perfect adviser to a brother he is close with.

I said the same thing about that in another post. But to add on Jon would have been Robb's conscience like Davos is Stannis's. It would have been Torrhen Stark and Brandon Snow all over again.

[Theda Baratheon]

More likely to follow Robb, the hansome fierce young stark with a gigantic Direwolf fighting by his side in battle. But in knowing what we know, I'm more inclined to say I would follow Jon.

[juanml82]

I agree, Robb should have told Edmure his plan, never assume. If my castle was being attacked and my liege didn't inform me of his plans I would defend my castle too. And what do you mean Jon did not unite the Wildlings? He may not have official did so, but all in all he has; Jon is a Stark - All the North bows down to Starks. Two, the Wildlings have a great admiration for him as a leader. North follows blood and Wildlings follow strength, put those two together and you got a powerhouse. So if like I said before he rises up, Davos does not find Rickon, then Jon can claim Winterfell. Simple. And like Tywin said "If soldiers lack discipline, the fault lies with their commanders" as long as Jon keeps the Wildlings in line they follow and abide by his every command. Robb made bad and stupid decisions all the time and his bannermen still followed so the Northerners will have to put up with the Wildling presence south of the Wall.

The thing is, what will happen when/if the wildlings begin raiding the Umber lands or, just maybe, Bear Island? Northern lords won't like Jon's decision to let them in, specially if the raiders then take refugee in the castles in the Wall and Robb's will doesn't (yet) surface.

Of course, things would be completely different had Jon descended from the Wall with a wildling army, smashed the Bolton's host, rescued fake Arya from the monster's claws, and entered Winterfell after a victorious pursuit right at the time Robb's will is made public in the immediate aftermath.

But Bowen Marsh has seen to that.

[Winterfellian]

The thing is, what will happen when/if the wildlings begin raiding the Umber lands or, just maybe, Bear Island? Northern lords won't like Jon's decision to let them in, specially if the raiders then take refugee in the castles in the Wall and Robb's will doesn't (yet) surface.

Of course, things would be completely different had Jon descended from the Wall with a wildling army, smashed the Bolton's host, rescued fake Arya from the monster's claws, and entered Winterfell after a victorious pursuit right at the time Robb's will is made public in the immediate aftermath.

But Bowen Marsh has seen to that.

Jon isn't so naive as to think that the wildings won't present problems. However I think is important to note 2 important keys: Jon isn't giving away northern territory to them, merely abandoned castles along the Wall to help defend it and the hostages. He knew from the very start that they will make troublesome neighors at best. When he let them through the Wall Jon collected a "blood price" in the form of 100 hostage boys making sure that among these kids were sons from every clan leader. For thw wildings, children are important, specially boys. This was done to ensure the behavior of their parents. Might be that not every single northern Lord will accept this, but we have the example of the envoys sent by the Norreys and the Flints being ok with Jon's proceedings, so is irrealistic to say that every Northern Lord won't be ok.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

I think both are equally good leaders. Both made mistakes due to the lack of experience and early responsibility. Both were taught by Ned. Both were betrayed. It's hard to to pick one. I wonder though, what would happen if war was being fought in north and Robb and Jon together.

[Larry of the Lawn]

He sent Val to treat with Tormund which was a worse decision. Robb knew Theon for 10 years while Val was a stranger to Jon. It only worked out because Jon had plot on his side.

Jon still had a hostage to protect against Val doing anything - her nephew. Robb gave away his leverage in Theon. Even if Theon didn't want to side with his father, Balon never would have let him return to Robb.

And, Val came back and did exactly what she said she would. So I'd say that Jon made the better call there, if those are the examples you want to use.

[Nictarion]

Jon is a better leader in my opinion. I think Rob had the luxury of having some very helpful bannermen at his side helping him greatly. Jon was a bit more on his own as LC when it came down to some of the tough decisions.

[Narea]

Jon all the way.

He did what was necessary and most of the NW agreed with his decisions, it was just the "old guard" that refused to see the sense in them. He also wouldn't have made the mistakes Robb did, mainly giving Roose Bolton (member of a House typically antagonistic towards Starks) too much freedom too far away from him. We can see Jon facing similar situation with Janos Slynt, where he gives him promotion but to a position where he can't do anything against him. Also, Jon being raises as a bastard gave him good understanding of human nature and motivations and rid him of any naivety concerning them. After all, you can only really understand what kind of person someone is by observing how they behave towards those of lower station not higher. And then there is the fact that he plans ahead (concerning glass gardens) and seems quite concerned with lack of North's preparedness for winter.

OTOH, we have Robb who goes to war in autumn making sure that there won't be enough people to gather harvest. Sure, Robb is a great military strategist, but at times he is too influenced by Cat's opinions. For example, he treats Edmure like a child because Catelyn still sees him as a child, even though he is one of his most important (if not the most important) lords and commanders. He lets Catelyn speak too much for him in the beginning. He should have never let Freys dictate terms like that. He comes at the head of a great army, but he negotiates from a point of weakness, agreeing to everything and in the end is left with nothing (noone) to forge any other alliances. And never does he seem to think about what comes after the war or that winter is coming and that his loyal subjects in the North are going to starve while he's on campaign in the south...

[Ludd]

I think iot was made clear from Chapter 1 just how the four boys ranked and their personalities, wisdom and character. That is why the books are awesome. So much said with so few words

Theon: Insensitive, (kicking the head),arrogant (behaviour to Jon) and cruel (the puppies)

Robb: sees the obvious not the depth - The man died bravely, soft hearted (the puppies)

Jon: saw the inner fear of Gared, self sacrificing (the puppies), wise (5 pups and 5 kids - a way to smooth the issue for Ned), Theon is not a friend

Bran: probably wiser than them both - can you be brave and afraid?

[The Drunkard]

I'd say Jon is a better leader, but I wonder how much of that is being able to see through his POV. Maybe it'd be different if we got to pick apart Robb's mind.

[Frey Pie]

I'd say Jon is a better leader, but I wonder how much of that is being able to see through his POV. Maybe it'd be different if we got to pick apart Robb's mind.

Good point in the POV. I still honestly think Robb

Question for everyone-would Jon have been able to replicate Robbs stunning victories? Would Robb have led the Watch aswell as Jon? First id have to say i highly doubt it , second i dont see why he wouldnt

[Brienne Of Bombay]

This is really difficult. Both had their merits and shortcomings as already discussed. I think they are both equally capable leaders. But if I had to follow one to battle, it would be Robb as Jon hasn't yet led any.

[Natalia Borgia]

Jon- politically

Robb- in the field